How to deal with the beggars

shanthi · Sep 27th, 2005, 12:35

It's very difficult for anyone to differentiate ebtween those who are in genuine need in India and others. When I first arrived in Tamil Nadu in 1999 there was a group of beggars outside the local train station (Morrupur). I regularly gave small change and some food, too, to about twenty people/kids. One evening about three months later when I was collecting my kids for their evening meal - I had a colleague with me. He asked me if I did this every day and I replied that I did (give the change to the beggars). About 10pm, he took me to where there were some fairly nice little houses (about three years old) and pointed out the "beggars" to me who were sitting outside in their yards watching TV. When they saw me pass by with my colleague, they began moving quickly toward the shadows or into the houses. One or two of course just sat and laughed.They were back at the train station the following morning but were not surprised when for the first time, I gave them nothing.

I think, with time - and if you're kind of permanent in one place in India, then you become more able to help those who really need helping. Yes, there are thousands in your immediate area who are desperate, but you are one person and can only do so much. In my area now those that really need help are helped by me (small number though it may be) and those who are not on the level now leave me alone entirely - it's hard..very hard to become part of India and not be touched by what we see, but when we make our choices I guess we must bear in mind that we're all human with emotions and not lumps of rock - we do what we do - and whatever we do we should do wilingly and with joy or not at all.

katyrafi · Sep 27th, 2005, 15:30

There but for the grace of God go I. I know what it is like to have 2 rupees left in the world, I give when I can - money if I have it, mostly food as being hungry is very distressing and I hope if I am ever really hungry again someone will do the same for me.

I also know what a difference 100 rupees can make let alone 10,000. I could live on that for 6 months if I had to and it could be life changing for a local.

I remember being followed by 'hordes' of children in Africa about 20 years ago - the only word they knew was pen. I gave pens, pencils, paper and was rewarded by shrieks of delight. Irritating at times to be followed everywhere, certainly, but nowhere near as irritating as dying of starvation.

We just don't realise how rich we are til we have nothing left.

katyrafi · Sep 27th, 2005, 15:32

oh and well put snowcrab

RedSwordfish · Sep 27th, 2005, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangss

You are lucky...if you understand their lingo...you would blush with embarrassment at the abuses they hurl at you for refusing them. I head to the loo each time I see them. refusing to pay them is one thing, but most certainly I would not like to test their vocabulary

I nearly got into a fight with one of them, but he went off... those guys are just bad jokes, acting and dressing like women but sometimes they forget to shave

Nick-H · Sep 27th, 2005, 16:09

Snowcrab, I see Bij's point: why should we subsidise laziness? But I am still more with you on this one.

Shanthi: yep, I'm sure it happens all over! And I'm sure I've fallen for it, probably many times! But when I think I may have, I shrug my shoulders and think that it isn;t a way I'd like to earn my living but...

shipwreckedcanuk · Sep 27th, 2005, 18:54

I don't see a problem with making distinctions between, or judging between people who are begging. Their act of begging, especially while surrounded by other beggars, is a request for me to judge them deserving of some money. They are saying- look at me, I'm worse off than the other beggars here, so give me your money, not them. Since I have no way of really determining who is the most deserving of help, I have to judge based on my values and what I am presented with.

I guess everyone had to deal with extreme poverty in whatever way works for them. Between the extremes of not caring at all and give your life over to volunteer work, I think most people find a method that lets them help while still keeping enough emotional distance for survival.

Nick-H · Sep 27th, 2005, 20:03

OK, yes, one has to sometimes make some distinction. Looking at it that way, though (and I guess I do sometimes) I'd tend to give to the least-able looking.

Where there really is a crowd they make it impossible for each other. It is very unwise to give at all, as one will then be besieged

Chandra · Sep 27th, 2005, 20:06

Agree. I never give anything when there are other beggars watching. (Or when I'm aware that there are.)
C

mriduus@yahoo.com · Sep 27th, 2005, 20:20

First of all, be respectful, whatever you do. Second, keep in mind that this is not an easy issue. Why you are where you are and they are where they are is one of those things we'll never really know. I DO know that a lot of these folks spend the night curled up under bridges with their kids.

If you do want to give, it is really easy and cheap; not like america where a buck is the going rate. Give a coin -- anything over a rupee, then do not look them iin the eye and they will leave you alone. Explaining things in Hindi usually makes things more difficult. I agree, giving food is good. I also think that you should not close your eyes, because these people are a manifestation of the poverty that Westerners benefit from (cheap computers and TV's etc) without having to see.

rangss · Sep 27th, 2005, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSwordfish

I nearly got into a fight with one of them, but he went off... those guys are just bad jokes, acting and dressing like women but sometimes they forget to shave

Something tells me that you believe they really are cross dressing, transvestite men. nope...they are eunuchs.

cyberhippie · Sep 27th, 2005, 22:10

I love the transexual game, everytime I see one approaching me on the train I grab the first one I can put my arm around him her and talk as much smoochy rubbish as they do, up to now not one of them has known what to do with this, it's hilarious as they wander off totally bewildered and a more than a little intimidated at their crossing with this mad Scottish tourist!
I started this game after noticing how they use sexual intimidation to fill their pockets (most men, cave in very easily to this) so I decided to turn the tables on them, most take it in the right spirit, though I can see they're totally confused, this isn't in the script they're thinking

freenote · Sep 27th, 2005, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberhippie

I love the transexual game, everytime I see one approaching me on the train I grab the first one I can put my arm around him her and talk as much smoochy rubbish as they do, up to now not one of them has known what to do with this, it's hilarious as they wander off totally bewildered and a more than a little intimidated at their crossing with this mad Scottish tourist!
I started this game after noticing how they use sexual intimidation to fill their pockets (most men, cave in very easily to this) so I decided to turn the tables on them, most take it in the right spirit, though I can see they're totally confused, this isn't in the script they're thinking

As above.I found them very funny and entertaining .After a little while they beat a hasty retreat .I hope they take the banter in the manner it is given .I just love the beards But some times the dress sence is a bit much.

Vasko · Sep 28th, 2005, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by freenote

As above.I found them very funny and entertaining .After a little while they beat a hasty retreat .I hope they take the banter in the manner it is given .I just love the beards But some times the dress sence is a bit much.

Agreed. This is one thing I really like about trains pulling out of Bombay... the hijras. They really don't have the same kind of intimidating power over foreigners as over Indians. Like freenote and cyberhippie, I like interacting with them (for a bit).

And I definitely don't think they are a joke, rather a fascinating subculture.

wanderbug · Sep 29th, 2005, 23:10

i ignore them all

Nick-H · Sep 29th, 2005, 23:54

Cyberhippie: would you be wearing your kilt at the time?

=========================

Wanderbug: that's just mean. (that's just my opinion).

Sep 27th, 2005, 15:30	#182
katyrafi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kerala Posts: 177	My 2 paisa There but for the grace of God go I. I know what it is like to have 2 rupees left in the world, I give when I can - money if I have it, mostly food as being hungry is very distressing and I hope if I am ever really hungry again someone will do the same for me. I also know what a difference 100 rupees can make let alone 10,000. I could live on that for 6 months if I had to and it could be life changing for a local. I remember being followed by 'hordes' of children in Africa about 20 years ago - the only word they knew was pen. I gave pens, pencils, paper and was rewarded by shrieks of delight. Irritating at times to be followed everywhere, certainly, but nowhere near as irritating as dying of starvation. We just don't realise how rich we are til we have nothing left.

Sep 27th, 2005, 16:09	#185
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,774	Snowcrab, I see Bij's point: why should we subsidise laziness? But I am still more with you on this one. Shanthi: yep, I'm sure it happens all over! And I'm sure I've fallen for it, probably many times! But when I think I may have, I shrug my shoulders and think that it isn;t a way I'd like to earn my living but... __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Sep 27th, 2005, 20:20	#189
mriduus@yahoo.com Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 39	begging First of all, be respectful, whatever you do. Second, keep in mind that this is not an easy issue. Why you are where you are and they are where they are is one of those things we'll never really know. I DO know that a lot of these folks spend the night curled up under bridges with their kids. If you do want to give, it is really easy and cheap; not like america where a buck is the going rate. Give a coin -- anything over a rupee, then do not look them iin the eye and they will leave you alone. Explaining things in Hindi usually makes things more difficult. I agree, giving food is good. I also think that you should not close your eyes, because these people are a manifestation of the poverty that Westerners benefit from (cheap computers and TV's etc) without having to see.

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Sep 27th, 2005, 12:35	#181
shanthi Account closed on user's request Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: South India Posts: 785	It's very difficult for anyone to differentiate ebtween those who are in genuine need in India and others. When I first arrived in Tamil Nadu in 1999 there was a group of beggars outside the local train station (Morrupur). I regularly gave small change and some food, too, to about twenty people/kids. One evening about three months later when I was collecting my kids for their evening meal - I had a colleague with me. He asked me if I did this every day and I replied that I did (give the change to the beggars). About 10pm, he took me to where there were some fairly nice little houses (about three years old) and pointed out the "beggars" to me who were sitting outside in their yards watching TV. When they saw me pass by with my colleague, they began moving quickly toward the shadows or into the houses. One or two of course just sat and laughed.They were back at the train station the following morning but were not surprised when for the first time, I gave them nothing. I think, with time - and if you're kind of permanent in one place in India, then you become more able to help those who really need helping. Yes, there are thousands in your immediate area who are desperate, but you are one person and can only do so much. In my area now those that really need help are helped by me (small number though it may be) and those who are not on the level now leave me alone entirely - it's hard..very hard to become part of India and not be touched by what we see, but when we make our choices I guess we must bear in mind that we're all human with emotions and not lumps of rock - we do what we do - and whatever we do we should do wilingly and with joy or not at all.

Sep 27th, 2005, 15:32	#183
katyrafi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kerala Posts: 177	oh and well put snowcrab

Sep 27th, 2005, 18:54	#186
shipwreckedcanuk Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 18	I don't see a problem with making distinctions between, or judging between people who are begging. Their act of begging, especially while surrounded by other beggars, is a request for me to judge them deserving of some money. They are saying- look at me, I'm worse off than the other beggars here, so give me your money, not them. Since I have no way of really determining who is the most deserving of help, I have to judge based on my values and what I am presented with. I guess everyone had to deal with extreme poverty in whatever way works for them. Between the extremes of not caring at all and give your life over to volunteer work, I think most people find a method that lets them help while still keeping enough emotional distance for survival.

Sep 27th, 2005, 20:03	#187
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,774	OK, yes, one has to sometimes make some distinction. Looking at it that way, though (and I guess I do sometimes) I'd tend to give to the least-able looking. Where there really is a crowd they make it impossible for each other. It is very unwise to give at all, as one will then be besieged

Sep 27th, 2005, 20:06	#188
Chandra Compulsive India traveller Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Oslo/Trondheim, Norway Posts: 195	Agree. I never give anything when there are other beggars watching. (Or when I'm aware that there are.) C

Sep 27th, 2005, 22:10	#191
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	I love the transexual game, everytime I see one approaching me on the train I grab the first one I can put my arm around him her and talk as much smoochy rubbish as they do, up to now not one of them has known what to do with this, it's hilarious as they wander off totally bewildered and a more than a little intimidated at their crossing with this mad Scottish tourist! I started this game after noticing how they use sexual intimidation to fill their pockets (most men, cave in very easily to this) so I decided to turn the tables on them, most take it in the right spirit, though I can see they're totally confused, this isn't in the script they're thinking

Sep 29th, 2005, 23:10	#194
wanderbug Looking is for free Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK Posts: 70	i ignore them all

Sep 29th, 2005, 23:54	#195
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,774	Cyberhippie: would you be wearing your kilt at the time? ========================= Wanderbug: that's just mean. (that's just my opinion).

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