Blondes- to dye or not to dye? & women's wear, women's safety etc

Khandoma

Nick : I don't want that debate anymore than you do ! What you say about powders and adulteration is very true. But you see, real henna is not powder. It's rock-like, although much softer. And it should be either pale-yellow, grey-green or blue-green-ish, depending on the expected colour. If it's red or black or brown, it's been messed with.
Adulterating these rocks probably reduces them into powder, which you don't want to buy.

Still, you are quite right about the health warning. To which it should probably be added that anybody can be allergic to henna and should do a test (a little product behind the ear) 24hrs before trying it.

Granted, it could be other things. Which is why I recommended that the poster didn't do it on her own but went to an Indian beauty parlor. You can always ask to see the product before you book.

And now I'll check the member's website and learn more !

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Nick-H

well, it comes from a leaf, so I suspect it was a powder before it was a solid. with plenty of scope for adulteration.

I don't know the process.

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burf

so much is already said in here that i wonder what is left

but more than blond on not hair i think you need to have your wits about when you are in here

Khandoma

Oh dear, oh dear, this gentleman really wants the last word in a debate on beauty products with a French girl. On a subject that's visibly new to him, whereas I've been using the product all my life, as my mother and grandmother before me. Well...

Making henna
Aishah, the best henna is obtained by using the wood of a tree. Several plants produce henna - one or more plants for each colour. Curiously, the henna tree is not the best option (for the hair and skin). To produce neutral henna, one uses a leafless plant.

Still, you can try your hand with the leaves of your tree. You need to grind them to a paste into a warm / hot mixture of water and lemon juice. Please note that this is best for dyeing wool, cotton and other fabrics. I absolutely do not recommend using the homemade mixture on yourself : allergy risks are high, but moreover, some henna plants are toxic. In France 2 different scientific missions have gone to Algeria and Turkey to collect the know-how of the henna-making ladies before they are replaced with industrial products. (if you read French, see the acts of the medical congress in Marakkech : http://www.sfta.org/societe/CRcongres/CRMarrakech.pdf) These women know how to recognize safe henna plants from toxic ones - and this knowledge is getting lost.

Beware, if you have a common henna tree, this will produce red henna, giving a natural orange-red tint. Neutral and black henna come from other plants.

Making henna is a very tedious process. I enjoy making my own cosmetics, I have a special mortar & pestle for that, but henna is just too much. Note : if you make your own, please use gloves ! The dye will stay under your nails forever.

Traditionnally, you grind the wood, adding oil (beauty oil, like argan oil in Arabic countries, mustard seed or neem oil in India) in the process to create the "rocks". Cheaper henna will contain cheaper oil, usually cooking oil.

To obtain black henna, you can also mix the natural paste with olive oil and nut-tree bark. Red henna can also be obtained by adding to the classic mix a carmine powder called in the Middle East "Fez red" (from the city of Fez), no idea whether it has an English name nor whether this is what's used in India. To Fez red you need to add "lipton water", no connexion with the tea makers but herborists and spice merchants usually know what it is.

I would like to repeat what I said in my last post : please do not try applying henna on your own hair if you've never used it before. It's long, difficult, boring and you have 90% chances of ending up displeased, at best. Go to a Turkish bath or a beauty parlor. And make a test 24hrs in advance. And note that it will not work on chemically-colored hair, and will prevent you from chemically dyeing your hair for weeks after application (the chemicals will not stick to your hair).

If you are keen on buying some in India, do not shop at those colourful spice places in bazaars (good chances of being adulterated, plus a certainty : these spices have been in the open air for much too long, their flavour will have gone). Try to locate either an off-bazar spice shop or preferably a herborist / pharmacist who works for an Ayurvedic doctor. Some will sell henna in powder. Please note that this powder should be a shade of gray-green, NOT red or black or brown.

Whatever you do, stay away from black henna unless you have complete faith in your hairdresser / tatoo artist. It has a high risk of containing substances that provoke cancer. Do NOT buy the black henna of the Indian brand Royalhenna, as it contains an excessive amount of said substances (called PPD) and has been banned in several European countries in the past year or so. (Nick, so much for being safe with industrial products...)

Oh, and Nick dear, something coming from a leaf is not necessarily powder - two hints for you : pesto and mint sauce...

kristinm

No go for green with purple streaks!!!!

I also was wondering about my short hair - I have seen some very stylish urban Indian girls with short hair (gorgeous!) but have noticed that long hair seems to be the thing - and why not when it so luscious and shiny and thick!

I wouldn't be on the pull or anything (travelling with husband!) so I guess it doesn't matter, and its too late to grow it now, but will I attract negative comments? Just idly wondering...like the previous post. They'll probably all feel sorry for me for my pathetic, light brown, thin short hair - compared to that beautiful Indian hair. If I could have anything changed - that would be it for sure!

kristinm

Mehndi Masala - how fabulous!!! Fancy being a henna artist in Winnipeg, I just love it when people have great jobs like that - I bet everyone told her she was really stupid for starting the business too!

Nick-H

Fascinating stuff, thank you. You are better informed ion this than Mrs N

kristinm

You mean Khandoma... yes, I would never question a French girl's expertise on beauty products or accessorising! You were brave but soundly beaten!

Nick-H

But my source of information was an Indian woman: and I think this pretty much an Indian thing!

There we go

Oh... and believe it or not, I used to make cosmetics too! . But that was several decades ago, and when it started to become a business rather than a hobby it wasn't fun any more so my friend and I stopped doing it.

Diana

Ha! I think you've stumbled right upon it. To me this is just more of the not-so-subtle effort in some camps (far too many these days) to set people apart. Especially to set apart perceived "haves" and "have nots." And the tool of choice seems to be fear.

It is also another not-so-subtle ploy to reign women in if you ask me (not that anyone did). It's like, "we know we can't keep you gals home in the kitchen back home anymore by pointing out your womanly duties...so we'll prey on your fear of "strange" men."

I mean Really! Has any hot blonde chick in the U.S./U.K made it to age 16 without being the focus of unwanted male attention?



Go. Go Blonde. Have fun!

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burf

very right!

Aishah

So right, Diana!!
And Khandoma - thank you so much for that really interesting post on henna -you have probably saved my hair and scalp from any self-experimenting after using bark or leaves or seeds from what they call here the 'henna' bush. Could have led to a real disaster for me! I won't even consider the idea - I had no idea how toxic etc. this stuff can be. I think I will just steer clear of it altogether! Thanks again.

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Khandoma

Aishah, my pleasure. Hope I can give more constructive / positive advice some other time.

Nick : there is no way I'm getting into a competition with the invisible but sincerely respected Mrs. N. I just mean to say that henna is as much a thing of the Mediterranean Arabic countries as it is an Indian thing (nowadays ; of course originally it was Indian, that's where the tree and first techniques came from). My mom's family is from Algeria and they have been using henna for centuries. So it's something as familiar to me as, say, home cooking

Which incidentally explains why the methods I indicated are Mediterranean ones, with local ingredients. No doubt an Indian woman will see this post and explain her own recipes.

And it doesn't make me a better expert than anyone else ; I'm sharing lifelong practice, that's all.

I love it that you used to make cosmetics ! Any way we can seduce or torture you for tips ?

Take care,

Nick-H

You see... I didn't know it was a Mediterranean thing!

I can barely remember what we used to make now, moisturising creams I recall...

As so many things do, it began as a hobby among friends, also raising funds for a charity. One day we tried spending a long, cold day selling the stuff on a stall near London's Portobello Road. It was a complete failure, but on the way home we did a bit of shopping at the then-famous (Ceres?) healthfood shop there. We told them the story of our day, they said, 'lets have a look then' --- and we went home with a big (to us) order!

People said our stuff did wonders for their complexion. It brought us out in spots all over, being up to our elbows in it several times a week. Buying and blending the essential oils for the perfume was the fun part, and the most difficult.

Yes... one of my previous lives

karuna

I agree the hair-dyeing thing is stupid, but this it's-all-just-scaremongering thing I'm not so convinced about.

I am neither hot nor blonde, and neither are a lot of women. I am not used to male attention. I am quite timid irl and rather sensitive. I just don't have the experience or confidence to know what to do when approached by men, and I doubt I am the only woman out there who is like that.

The amount of male attention (by which I mean unsolicited comments on my looks, love, marriage and sex, as well as touching) I got in India was a shock to me because I'm just not used to it, and I handled it the wrong way at first by smiling or laughing as I would normally would if embarrassed in the UK.

What I'm trying to say is that what might seem to be scaremongering to confident women could be vital information for shy, naive things like me. Yes, it's a difficult subject which really needs careful handling, which in the case of this hair-dyeing idea hasn't happened, but to dismiss it all as attempts to create fear or keep women down ignores all the non-hot, non-blonde, non-super confident women out there who may need or want guidance on an issue that may well affect them.

If anything in my case I would want to be informed and be given ideas on how to dress/act to PREVENT fear, and to arm myself with knowledge and the courage that comes from that to go travelling alone and not be tied to the kitchen.

I guess I just mean...don't throw the baby of forewarning out with the bathwater of ludicrous ideas about dyeing your hair.