Blondes- to dye or not to dye? & women's wear, women's safety etc

wonderwomanusa

That color looks uncomfortable in the West (excep when worn by Norse goddesses) but in the sun of India, it looks perfectly lovely. Same goes for orange .. not a color I'd ever wear at home, but I have three orange sarees packed away, And at the time, I looked wonderful ...

kristinm

Diana

That's the only way to do it MM! I spent 3 months off the path in Kerala last year (and go back in Jan.) Only saw Caucasians on 2 occasions in that time: one woman traveling alone (and happily) on a train. One couple (obviously tourists) from a distance in Trevandrum. And one German ex-pat whose lived there so long everyone's forgotten he's not India. But then I was there to work more than sight-see (though did lots of that as well of course.)

I've light brown (but not blond) hair, very fair skin, green eyes, and while I get looked at (attention) and compliments (I love that!)a lot (or did when new in towns) I was never harassed by anyone. I get more "funny looks" and comments when I wear a chudidar here in the U.S. (which is very occasionally - mostly when I have forgotten I have one on as I wear them here for comfort but sometimes head out shopping or for dinner w/o changing back into jeans.)

Maybe I'm just not all that interesting to look at or maybe the people in Kerala are more polite? But I told my male friends here about this thread and they (Caucasians for the most part) say it may just be that Western bias that says "hey, don't look at "our" women" and reflect more about the way Western men think of women than any danger. That is, maybe what some tourists call "harassment" is really just stares out of curiousity.

Then again, I've not yet been to the bigger cities much.

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the opoponax

I think this is absolutely spot on. Fear of non-white men harrassing, raping, abducting, etc. white women is at the core of every ongoing racial tension I'm aware of in the US (and I'd extend that to the West in general, or at least Anglo-influenced parts of the world). I would put money on the fact that at the core of all this Is It Safe? nonsense lies a much more generalized fear of The Brown People Want To Steal Our WimminFolk.

Which, of course, works on more than one level. Not only does it reinforce racist attitudes, it also keeps the women in their place and never lets anybody forget that we women are in a lot of contexts still considered property.

Sama

depending on where you go, it's exceedingly possible.

excellent. which is why I said many posts ago that for me the "are solo women travelers safe" questions have moved beyond simply being a travel issue.

that being said, however, the people asking the questions are women, not men (generally.)

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the opoponax

But we're often asking either because we've heard via the male dominated world around us that places like India are not safe, or because we're so often told that our own country isn't safe.

And of course the whole issue is muddied by the fact that some things really aren't safe, and it's hard to know when leaving the comfort zone of your own culture what those things are going to be. We'd be a lot better off if the safety question could be a completely neutral one, but because of the general racist and sexist undertones, it really can't be.

Sama

I guess. it's all about peoples' preconceptions or misconceptions.

the first time I went I was repeatedly asked -- always by women I might add -- "aren't you afraid?" whereas I would bet that if I were a man of the same age people would say "wow! cool!"

kind of makes me sick if I think about it...

PeakXV

I think it's just human instinct to be more concerned for your 18 year old daughter heading out to India on her own as opposed to an 18 year old son. I think that percentage of concern evens(and lessens) out considerably as the sexes age ... for obvious reasons.

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Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

the opoponax

I don't want to get personal, Peak, but why is that, do you think?

There are certainly a lot of dangerous situations a guy can get himself into in India -- in fact, I'd guess that a man traveling there alone stands more chance of coming to harm, precisely because women are expected to always be on guard.

The chance of being raped (for instance) by a strange Indian guy while traveling alone is astronomically smaller than the chance of being raped by your husband, boyfriend, best guy friend, prom date, male traveling buddy, etc.

karuna

But this is all theory, all speculation. Not that I don't agree that some advice has sexism or racism at its heart. I am not sure whether the "our wimminfolk" concept carries as much weight in Europe as it does America. Having been in several mixed race relationships I've noticed it does seem to be a much more politically loaded topic in the States than in the UK. The most I can say for the UK is that there's a prejudiced association between low social class and mixed race relationships, but not any real "taking our women" concern that I've seen. But yes, the concept of the alien "other" is definitely involved.

As for sexism, I'm much less convinced of that. Much much less. I guess I having difficulty conceiving of sexism as men trying to keep women tied to the kitchen sink through spreading fear. I've seen little evidence of that myself beyond some women's interpretation of advice- advice that may well have been written by women. The get out clause I suppose is that those women writers have been indoctrinated by sexism, and then we're just left with a few of us who've deemed ourselves truly "liberated" and all other women are being subjugated and just don't know it.

Women perceive the risks of travel and aloneness- some feminists hold reclaim the night marches because they recognise that our streets are not safe, some feminists also take martial arts classes to be able to defend themselves. They acknowledge the risk and challenge it, but are wise enough to arm themselves against it.

In my personal experience, I am at a greater risk of harassment (which I would classify as personal comments or touching- not staring)in India than in the UK. What should people do? Not tell me that at all? Tell me about it but don't offer any potential ideas for mitigating the risk? Or just claim it isn't true and it's all a cultural misunderstanding? I realise YMMV, but that's OK, women can be different.

I just don't see how the discussion of the reasons behind given advice to women actually helps the women- and isn't that what we're here to do? The fact that they're here and planning their solo India trip is proof enough for me that they're not tied to the kitchen sink.

PeakXV

The operative word in my post was 'more'.

Everything that a young lady can get into with the potential exception of eve-teasing and beyond. Therefore 'more' of a concern - that's all.

A very interesting analogy/statistic .... but irrelevant to my post.

capt_mahajan

I would say it is human instinct to be more concerned about your 18 year old daughter than your 18 year old son anywhere.

It is not about kitchen sinks (or even hotel sinks ) or about women being property (that would be if a male tried to say, 'you can't go there'- I would like to try that with my wife after I learn self defence). It is not about racism, though it can be fear of the unknown.

The fact is that in certain circumstances and locations, women may be targeted more. This does not reflect on their ability to take care of themselves, but it does make many a parent, male and female, more anxious.

What you do with that anxiety determines sinks et al

Nick-H

I was intending a silly post here --- but the conversation has turned serious.

Very interesting points and counterpoints. I'll put the silliness back on ice.

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Diana

There is more to sexism than just trying to keep women tied to the sink...That is, of course, the big ugly type we think of at times but to ignore the subtle (and not so subtle) ways that society (male and female) tries to maintain a sexist status quo is to ignore the more subtle but also harmful types of sexism that pervades most societies. Just as racism can be overt and violent (like with KKK folks) or covert and more passive (as with run of the mill bias and discrimination) the same can be said of sexism.

One does not have to tell his wife or daughter "no" (like an owner/master) to use his power and the power of the dominant culture to (even unconsciously) keep her down and himself "up." For example, my 1st husband (a zillion years ago, very short marriage) was in a job where we moved a lot. He called himself a feminist and talked the talk. But every time I got enrolled in school, he'd request a job transfer and we "had" to move. Only took a few times to see that despite all his talk, he just didn't want me back getting educated beyond his level of education.

Same thing on the job. Is a boss a sexist if he asks a woman to get his coffee? No, not if he is equally likely to ask a man. By asking only women though, even ones with big titles and paychecks, he sends the message that they are still servants and not quite up with the boys.

So sure, parents (especially) can and should warn their children (male and female) about dangers they learn of. But one has to be really clear on what they are really warning against? I mean, if a guy "looks" at a white woman with light hair because she looks different, what are we really fearing? Would we have fear if he looked at a white man? If it was a dark woman looking at a light person? Are white women so fragile that we melt if looked at?

Of course not. I'd say that in some of these cases the underlying , even unconscious, fear is that a woman who is noticed may arouse male aggression. So women are to go way out of their way not to get noticed. (Even up to dying one's hair!) Shouldn't the focus of concern be male aggression instead of female hair color?
That is where the sexism of these alarms lies...in the focus on the woman and her "seductive" behavior.

Throw in Western racism against dark people, especially men, and you have the situation we keep seeing here, in travel guides, and in folk lore:

Dark men noticing light women who don't cover up enough.

Like other women on this forum who have been to India (without hair dye or radical tanning ) I can attest that I feel much more fearful walking across my small town college campus (5 reported rapes this year) than across town in Kerala. And, the facts are out there to support our selective fear. More males get hurt on our college campus, on the roads, in big cities, etc than women every year. Just ask an insurance agent...

shashank.aggarwal

Bit OT, however thought might be of interest to some :
SC has just approved that females can serve as bartenders in Hotels in Delhi..and also reduced the age limit of those serving to 21 from 25 earlier..

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