Behaviour of Tourists in India

greenchutney

what acceptance are you talking about?....you really think sane people accept this behaviour. you really think indian society accepts this? where do you get this idea is beyond me... my sister was patted very friendly'ly by an ex-neighbour and she gave it him back in no certain terms...so there you have it..many women give it back, many dont, many walk away, many call the cops.. there are many ways to dealing with it.

am i shifting the blame to foreigners?>..who is?

indian girls get raped, foreign girls get raped in india. american girls get raped, some tourists to america get raped. get that damn perspective, a statistical logic and dont assume for the indian society or those who you met in the tourist circuit are what the sampling is for the indian male population at large.

skinnylatte

The acceptance that says: if you're just a foreign girl sitting around in a restaurant minding your own business, and some weirdo guy comes to sit down uninvited and in five minutes he starts saying things like "can i have a kiss" or "let's fuck". And he thinks he has every right to say those things because you're supposed to be foreign and therefore, by association, loose. There really isn't anything you can do except grin and get on with it.

I think you really need to be female to see that.

I don't assume anything about the indian male population; damn I wouldn't be dating so many of them, or coming back to india so much, if I assumed that much about them. But there comes a time when you just can't tolerate this shit anymore and when the next person comes up to say "the west is hedonistic/decadent/town bicycle/leading us all astray", you just have no choice but snap.

I wasn't accusing you of shifting the blame... I was talking about the gist I get from this whole thread, especially from the threadstarter.

greenchutney

since you dragged indian soceity's acceptance of this behaviour...how about this study that just came out couple of months ago...does this mean 'american' society accept this?

40% US women abused
Email Print Normal font Large font May 18, 2006 - 1:21PM
Sydney Morning Herald News Link

from the article...

More than 40 percent of women surveyed in the Seattle area reported they had been physically or psychologically abused by their husbands, dates or boyfriends, researchers have said.

And a second study showed that women who have been slapped, kicked or otherwise abused were four times more likely to report severe depressive symptoms and three times more likely to report fair or poor health.

The researchers, who say their study is a snapshot but suggests a national trend, were surprised at the numbers.

greenchutney

i agree. having sister(s) and others helps though

yes, we all snap ..and especially what zidane did yesterday at the world cup final..that i am still in shock.

skinnylatte

Okay are you happy then when I clarify: I never meant 'acceptance' of 'Indian society' at large, but rather I should rephrase what I mean as: the outright blatantness with which the perpetrators of such behaviour perform their crimes, reinforced by bias towards foreign women, and get away so frequently with it?

skinnylatte

greenchutney

its not question of happiness or not. you think they get away with..in the long journey that is life, such shit rolls back at them..yeah..i really do believe in karma..or some form of it. i agree at some times, you have to be on the face, throw shit back..but i think all the 'bad' stuff you do..comes back to you...actions, reactions...oh well...

i dont call it acceptance to be honest. i say move along and concentrate on more important things in life. yeah deal the way you want..strongly with the ones that are extreme.. but to be bothered about some catcalls or such morons, be hot and flustered all the time, is more detrimental to your health.

again..i dont see it as acceptance in that word..but then again, you can strike against me as saying that i am not a female, have not gone through that or be in situations such as these

Digital Drifter

a little late for me to enter this thread but I' suggest a small tweak to your rephrasing.
bias towards ALL women;

When I'm going to be a scumbag, I do it without prejudice; I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally.

I think it's quite difficult to prove that there is a bias against foreign women even given the experiences. Statistically, your experience is dwarfed by the number of atrocities against women in India.

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skinnylatte

You'd be right, and this is why such things exist. However, I mention bias towards foreign women, as opposed to ALL women, in light of the thread's earlier premise on foreign women and local men.

Nick-H

...which was a pretty loose premise, really.

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Brigit

I would like to clear up. I think I probably didn't write very clearly in my opening post. I was posting in a board moment at work.
When I first arrived in India I was horrified at the way Indian men acted to western women, especially in comparison with what their culture believes is acceptable behaviour towards women. I still am, I also hate the fact that in Indian culture some things seam to be fine so long as you don’t let the wrong people see.
However, as I got to know the Indian boys in the town I live in better I started to see there was another side to do it. There is a reason the boys think they can get away with the “lets fuck” comments. There are I’m really sorry to say some western girls who are almost that easy, once they’ve been smoking weed.
Also from a classical Indian mindset they just don’t get the way dating in the west works. They don’t get it the some western girls are faithful to their partners, because they see so many of the travellers who have an open relationship with their partners. Again, the traveller is not doing anything wrong, the Indians just find it very hard to understand.
Many of the young Indian men I know act like they think the west acts, and they are wrong. Its is in my opinion not anyone’s fault, I believe its from lack of education on many Indians side, and on acting with out think of the effect it will have. It seam to me to be unfortunate that travellers would have to think like that. So it’s many problems none with easy answers.
I don’t see all western women as being at fault, but I have seen some who make me sad and have probably hindered the effort to awaken India to the need to respect all women, well all people really. I don’t think Indian men are innocent but I don’t see much I can do by talking about that on this forum, I did think that taking about the other, and I think less realised side, and yes probably less important side, here might come up with some Ideas that might help.
I hope that is clearer, I really don’t mean to make much of a judgement, I wanted to draw attention to the grey area. I’m working in my little way, very hard, on trying to correct the idiotic impression most of the “tourist boys” have of the travellers, because it becomes my business when it affects the people staying in my hotel, or when the boys in question are good friends or “brothers”.
I’m also not “Indian at heart” I love an Indian man, but I’m am English, with all that’s left of my heart.
Please don’t take this as being agro, maybe just a little sad, that I may have upset anyone.
Apologies for this being rant like

Digital Drifter

brigit,

I don't quite know what to make of your post but I'll tell you this.

If Indian women acted like the way you describe, the men would still act the way they do with foreign women. Yes, there's this thing, an ignorance of dating AND breakup. Most likely, jilted Indian men would throw some acid on the woman's face. Happens everyplace, metros and dipshit town, India. The only reason it's not frequent with foreign women is the higher prob. of arrest and jail time.

MeCasa was pretty much correct when he said, Indian men act similarly to any men, allowing for a few weird cultural quirks(bad choice of word)

On a simpler level, any tourist place will always have it's share of deviants and wierdos and Pushkar seems to be no exception. I suspect the locals have figured out the 'Date Rape' equivalent of dope,drink and women especially foreign women. Add the bravado element, the 'easy women' myth is out in full force.

hence the obnoxious behaviour.

Nick-H

I'm beginning to wish I'd met a few more of the girls that Brigit writes about!

It seems to me that it is a bit like the schoolboy dream of the 1950s: a blond swedish girl, because they have sex. Not that we'd ever met any, so really it was a total fantasy.

Perhaps the Indian guys should know better, because they have met the "foreign" women.

Lets take some "facts" (none of which are quite black and white, of course)...

• Unmarried Indian girls do not have sex.
• Unmarried Foreign girls do have sex.
• The average 25-year old Indian man's sexual experience is less than the average British 13 year old.

Indiadancer

You know just about the only thing that has made sense in this entire thread so far was someone (I forget whose) comment that he thinks of Indian men as he thinks of all men: strong and able enough to make their own decisions.

There have been a lot of gross generalizations here. And while, yes I've been a woman harrassed in India, I've been a woman harrassed in America, Germany, Holland, Italy...everywhere you visit you may or may not get harrassed. And it may have NOTHING to do with your gender or sexuality. I got lectured by a German shopkeeper for having a stupid country that elected an imbecile.

I have something else to add to Brigit's derision of foreigners who come and have a relationship with an Indian man and then don't move to India: It doesn't always work out. I met a fantastic man in Goa and after a few days I fancied myself to be nearly head over heels. He didn't buy me expensive gifts or anything like that, he'd had his heart broken by an Englishwoman before. I didn't want to hurt him. I even talked to my parents about having a long relationship with him, and they were OK with it. For one reason or another, things didn't work out. Does this make me one of the terrible foreigners you are talking about? Does this make him a victim. In America, the boy would just say "Fine, F*ck it, she's probably a b*tch anyway," and MOVE ON. I think it's insulting to Indian men that you think they can't handle their own relationships. And insulting to foreigners that you think we'd manipulate people on purpose. Some people might do that, but....

::sigh:: Yes, everyone, shit is everywhere. India is no exception. I mean no offense Brigit, and maybe my defensiveness hints at guilt, but I guess these kinds of threads get to me sometimes. I understand cause I wanted to find someone or something to blame and I used to always get in these East vs. West debates....but that's so orientalist...people are people, and assholes are assholes, and assholes and people alike have bad days...

Indiadancer

And one more thing...I did read Indiamike, and at least 3 India travel guides, and read novels by Indian authors, watched Indian movies, ate Indian food, completely tried to immerse myself in India, before I even left the country. And I left with as open a mind as I think is possible without the aid of a lot more therapy and/or drug use....