60s to 2004 hows it changed???

Bryan

well I can only speak from the early 90s ...but I think I caught what was the tail end of the old India
Many changes ...too many to note here

The first difference is simply the amount of people ...Vast numbers now go and india visitors are ten a penny back here whereas back then it was still unusual

A few of the places that have changed unrecognisably are
Vagator, palolem, Varkala Mallapuram, Kasol, Bagsu, manali to name a few

There was no internet ...in fact email wasn't even invented so the only way to contact mates back home was the humble aerogramme
the blue sheet you folded and stuck together, and post restante ...checking for news from home ...hahahaha ...receiving a letter in the middle of no where was always a highlight

There was something to be said for haviong no news of back home
there was no cable tv in fact no tv to speak of ...though i remember watching the FA cup final on a snowy black and white tv with a group of english in varanasi hahahaha and being amazed that they showed it
Whole communities huddled round a single tv watching the Mahabharata ...anyone remember that!!!!!! ...Amazing special effects hahahahaha

japanese dancing shoes ...they were de-rigour wear for any self resepcting traveller havent seen a pair in years and mine are now burst and wrecked through walking the length of India and Asia...

The great ambassador cars ...now becoming more and more rare as is the contessa the only modern-ish car at the time. There were simply no modern cars ...
As for Indians there were very few Indian tourists ...now that the Indian middle class has expanded exponentially you see Indian tourists everywhere ...a trully new phenomenon

The clay chai pots ...now rarer and rarer ...buying goods from shops packed in old news papers and forms
How they made these bags was a marvel ...now you only get plastic ...death to plastic

Air quality ...has definelty got worse ..>Delhi never had the best air but it seems to have got significantly worse

Prices have risen incredibly ...I remember renting a room above the cow shed ..for 50 rupees a week hahahaha ...made it into home and despite the sometimes bad smell it was home for a couple of months ...banana leaf thalis ...getting harder to find

No aircon ...didnt want it need it or desire it ...
few if any package tourists ...the last trip to goa i saw a package tourist with mini skirt bikini top and white high heels ..i kid you not i felt like pointing out benidorm was 2000 miles to the west hahahaha

Anjuna market ...wow it now looks permanent ...i remember the local politicians trying to have it shut down and stopping it opening some weeks ...how times have changed

but what to do ...you move on you find your spot and see through the changes and still feel the essence that took you there in the first places

Spiritual consumerism ....I remember yo paid by donation ...what you could afford now i see adverts for this that or the other ...only $50 ...Stick your $50 where the sun don't shine ...The true teachers are there but there are swarms of carpet baggers both western and indian hiding the real gems

im sure I've missed a barrel load of other things but not to worry they'll appear when i least expect it

The quiet spots are still there you just have to look a wee bit harder

As for less acts of humanity now....I'm sorry but if you look they are still there confronting you as you take each step throughout the continent ...

I should say ...It is still the centre of the universe and changes newbies more than they'll ever know

Life is beautiful
Bryan

__________________
Then let us pray that come it may
(As come it will for a' that),
That Sense and Worth o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree an a' that.
For a' that, an a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That man to man, the world, o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that.
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cyberhippie

We got there at a similar time bryan, yeah the blue aerograms that never had any glue on them. Like the capstan ciggie papers where are they now?? only 2 rps a packet.
The techie gizmos are one of the really big changes, phones, computers and the like.
Back then even phoning could be tricky, especially domestic calls, it could take a couple of hours to get through and there was no Guarantee you would finish the call without being cut off.
I remember walking through Old Varanasi and being completely blown away, as I witnessed the surreal scene through an ancient doorway of some kid playing a video game on a black and white TV
Only the big train stations were computerised. remember the little carboard tickets and the old mechanical stamp to validate it!

Dinner on the train served on a tin Thali plate, with the old clay cups for me chai, which are happily making a comeback!
The food on the platform was better as well before they licenced all the vendors. And of course you could smoke on the train/platform!
I don't think there was even a commercial channel on the TV back then, just 1 or 2 national channels, now some places have a hundred channels plus!!
It may be nostalgia but I don't remember so many whingers back then either. Most who'd made the effort spent the whole day amazed at the scenes around us.
These days I meet so many people who leave me thinking why did you bother coming to India at all, shame!!

And the service is so much more professional these days, back then there was still an element of "faulty towers syndrome" in some of the guest houses which all added to the fun!!

Still as everyone has noted you don't have to go too far to recapture the magic,
India will occupy a special place in my in my heart forever I think because the one thing that hasn't changed is the warmth and hopitality of the Indian people. This despite the many many rude travelers throwing all sorts of abuse at them!!

As someone once sung "thank you India"!

tukat

my first trip 1993, Mumbai:
no cell phones
no malls
no toyota land cruisers
lots of money changers in Colaba
and i bought lovely sandalwood scented shampos & conditioners

2004:
now all shampoos american scented!
no "change money, madam?" guys
Must admit trips thru Mumbai in AC landcruiser are more comfortable than in taxi breathing fumes
Wish I had gone in the 1970's, what a long strange trip it must have been!

What are japanese dancing shoes?

paan wallah

I also remember my trip in 1993/94... since then it changed so much...so much
nowadays the traffic is getting a bit too much for me sometimes...
the pollution....
India has lost a lot of it s "special atmosphere"....
of the feeling going to India is something very special and unique in the world....
still it is and maybe it will have this very special something forever....this something very special we all love and got "addicted" to..
I m really wondering how it will look like in 10 years or so..
we should open a thread about our views and expectations of India in 10 years !!

It s only India but we like it

on my last trip this year I felt a lot of magic in Myanmar,a country,
I fell in love with,especially the people,great and lovely people!!!
Sitting in a tea shop,having some sweets listening to Burmese Hardrock,discussing the political situation with the people.Great

I hope there will be a lot of political changes in mYanmar.

Bryan

They were black cloth boots with a think sole
They buttoned up the side and went about half way up the calf
The werent rounded like normal shoes but had a section for the big toe
Amazingly comfortable, strong, light and looked great
Bryan

Yeah thats a thing thats rarer now; the money changers ....less now ...there were a number of shoe shops on Pahar ganj ...always great rates

Where will india be in 10 years ...Im hoping it wont be having aspirations of a super power which throws its weight around and becomes braggards about being the greatest ...but the writing is on the wall ...Still there is hope there always is and the soul of the mountian folk will always be true ...and hopefully plastic will be banned in more and more places...However I'd expect the trains to be more western and the buses will start to compete ovcer long distances as the new motorways are built
Unfortunatly there will be a crash in the fish stock on its shores as the catching of smaller and smalelr fish takes its toll and the acid rain from pollution starts to poison the lakes and kill whats left of the jungle

I paint a bleak picture ...Ina ctual fact this is the worst case scenario ...lets hope Im wrong ...so what will eb the changes for the better?

Will there be a referendum and Kashmir will once more be at peace...Indian as a secular state heals the rifts between the faiths and becoems a model for the rest of Asia and the middle east. Indians realise the pollution is harming them and ban the car from the centre of cities. The himalaya are reforested and instead of investing in nuclear weapons the sums are redistributed in a war against poverty.

Nice

Bryan

Bryan

wonderwomanusa

Further:

India and Israel did not have diplomatic relations in the 70s, and I believe I met ONE Israeli couple in 2 years. They were very nice, polite and respectful of the culture they were visiting.

Manali was not a "scene." We stayed in a dormitory by the river -- marijuana grew by the path leading to the outhouse. Almost everyone was in Kulu that week, so we had the place to ourselves.

Derek, I think that, if I still have it, that first guide from Tony W is in the garage, and I don't know if I can bear to dig around in my past looking for it! But if I run across it... I'll quote it!

I was in Bombay in the "first practice blackout" before the Bangladesh war .. the time they tested the anti-aircraft gun and killed someone on the ground. And yes, got to Goa without a flashlight -- a good way to learn about phases of the moon! All Goa was blacked out at that time, until the war was over... when there was no moon, we didn't go anywhere!

SHIMLA

cyberhippie,
I spent my school and college life in Mumbai in the late sixties, seventies and early eighties. I fondly remember the Mumbai of the seventies, when everything was so calm and unhurried( remember, this is from a student's point of view) and people had time for each other. It was a pleasure taking in the city in those good old days. I cannot say the same of today's Mumbai, as it has only worsened in all respects: population, inflation, politics, commercialization, traffic, crime, squalor, misplaced jingoism, one-upmanship, etc. ! I was happy to have moved to Nashik in the late eightees. A laidback and peaceful town then, Nashik is today slowly but surely inching towards becoming another Mumbai!

Regarding Shimla, the biggest change I find now as compared to my first visit there in 1981, is the climate! Indiscriminate felling of trees to build more hotels has taken its toll and today one finds the need for a ceiling fan in Shimla's hotels in summer! Gone are those Shimla summers when one slept with a cardigan on and under a warm and cozy quilt. Gone are those days when one shivered pleasantly in the face of a chill draught under the thick, shady pines on a summer afternoon !

You are right about Shimla having fewer traffic and tourists then. The tourist influx to Himachal Pradesh started in the second half of the eightees, when the troubles in Kashmir began. Shimla, Kullu and Manali were considered as safer alternatives to Srinagar & co. and the hordes started arriving! However, purely from a selfish point of view, it is good that most of the hordes think that Shimla is just Mall road and Ridge and do not stay longer than three days !

Look at Manali today ! The tiny hill-station has close to 400 hotels and its still difficult to get a room without an advance booking in the season!!

The concept of tourism has today changed drastically and its awareness increased manifold as compared to the seventies and eightees; and though it has provided the much needed boost to the Indian economy, it has also taken its toll!

__________________
Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to shop !

bijapuri

there was another guesthouse a few yards further towards the wall/Jantar Mantar. I used to stay there a lot. The usual charpoys and charas crowd, but nice man named Kiti ran it.

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anonymous

Mrs. Jain's guesthouse?

Alan D

Sounds like Mrs Jain's. Nice quiet location and handy to Connaught Place.

We stayed there in 1996. The charpoys had gone and they were fitting en suite bathrooms.

bijapuri

Jains is was!

cyberhippie

Here's a few words from our very own Midnite toker ji. Yep he's still out there!! Watching!

I've attached a picture of me and New Zealander John in Delhi in
1981. John, having just met me in a restaurant in Agra, lent me 100 pounds to buy my ticket back to London (I screwed up trying to transfer money from my account in Australia - it was really very hard in those days before Western Union or Amex - "telegraphic transfer" it was called, I shudder to
think of having to do that again). Of course, I sent him the money as soon as I returned to the UK, but he had incredible trust with this stranger.

That's one of the things which has changed in the 25-odd years. There'sstill trust to be found in India, but as Shimla says in the thread, fewer"acts of humanity" than of yore. My photo also illustrates our cyclerickshaw on Janpath - no rickshaws in the centre of Delhi now, and you wonder how long it will be before they're removed entirely, like they did inJakarta, to make way for King Car. Those funky HarleyDavidson 6-seaters to Old Delhi are gone, too, although I don't miss them so much - they were dreadfully polluting and many of the drivers possessed by a death wish.
Other things: spending an entire day buying a train ticket; needing your"All India Liquor Permit" to buy alcohol; practically no non-vegetarian restaurants outside the Muslim areas; Western imports like Duracells and sunblock impossible to find; having "high value" items written in yourpassport (One English man I flew in with from Burma had splashed out on a
bells-and-whistles cassette player in Bangkok, hoping to profit from itssale in Calcutta He was hugely irritated when the Immigration officer asked him many questions about it, and eventually wrote it into his passport.);nearly nowhere to store excess luggage except the railway station and
hotels/ guest houses you sweet-talked into helping you. Dope was cheap andpretty unadulterated. I trekked in Nepal with a lump of charas I'd bought in Durbar Square, Kathmandu, for forty rupees, smoked it through India, and still threw some away before I left. Gorgeous stuff, it was like crumbly
pollen. Oh, and don't forget those steam trains - they were normal then,
diesels were only just coming in.

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bijapuri

to do lists for any given day had only one event . . .

go to Post office,

book ticket,

etc.

AND

People had many memories of the British rule, most of it fond. After 25 years of self rule, there was quite an attitude of, "Things were run a damn sight better then!" Nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if 10 Indians were asked, you'd be hard pressed to find half who even know the British were once there. amazing how far in the past the Raj seems now.

seventies'hippy

A few more fond memories which will hopefully trigger yours,,,,,,,

What about that strict lady customs officer on the indian/ pakistan border, wow you started preparing for her soon after you'd left istanbul.
Yes Mr Jains as I remember it on janpath lane, He was a real nice guy, one of the old brigade.
Or remember "The Celler" on on C/P, I think it was the first dicco in delhi outside of a couple of hotels.
Or the experience of your first indian train, especially if you had to get on in the middle of a route, It would pull in absolutely jammed packed with bodies, and you'd think oh no theres no way I can get on there, but somehow you did, you had to, cos the next one would be just as packed.
A special treat was if you were getting on where the train started, if you was fast & got in the carriage quickly you could claim a space on a luggage rack, not for your luggage though, For yourself, The original upper tier, but you still got covered in coal dust which came in through the open barred windows,,,,,,,
I'm sure some of you remember the overnight ferry from bombay down to goa, that was fun especially in the week before christmas when everyone was heading to goa, It's where the party started,,,,,
In goa like the rest of india there was no bottled water, you drank the same water as the locals, The difference in goa was or especially in anjuna anyway you hoped no-one had spiked the well with Lsd.
There was joe bananas place just inside from the beach sth anjuna, he could supply you with anything & everything,
There was sadhu tom & sadhu george both originally american,,,,, NY'er eight finger eddie,, an original goa'rite, with his special style of dance,
There was goa gil & his "big dipper band" allnight music on the beach with speakers allegedly given by "The Who", you could hear that bass beat at the top of vagator all the way from the sth anjuna headland, in-between the party moved to the "Music House at chapora, that was a smaller setting. there was also the occasional full moon party up on the top of chapora fort.

Everyone had their areas, and central to your area was "The Chai Shop" life revolved around the chai shop, but once in there life revolved around the chillum, you could certainly sit there for hours, even days (all day everyday) if you wanted getting very very stoned, groups of people maybe 4, 8, 10 passing round in a circle one chillum after another, the sound of Bom Shankar was never far away,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

anonymous

Gate, gate, paramgate, parasamgate, bodhi svaha

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