60s to 2004 hows it changed???

cyberhippie

It's July and bij is off soon so I thought I'd post a thread that asks all of you folks who travelled India way back in the 60s 70s 80s an 90s to share your thoughts on what's changed.
The infrastructure, the bizzare, the attitude of backpackers/tourist
India itself?
Has the landscape changed, have the locals changed their opinion of the feringi, how much did chai cost in the 70s?
Was Goa really that funky?
How did places become popular through the years and were they spoiled?
How did we get around before the LP, does anyone still have the first India LP?
Has the dream faded, been diluted?
Or has everything remained pretty timeless?

C'mon guys this facinates, all you folk who were ground breakers or news spreaders tell us how it used to be and Alan D please more 60s photos!!

seventies'hippy

Good thread cyberhippie, It's going to run & run,,,,,,,

You've given us lots of khana banana, I'm prbably going to ramble a little in no certain order, hopefully I'll trigger other peoples memories, theres lots to answer in just one reply,,,,,,,

Firstly of course us brits/commonwealth people did'nt need a visa.
Noticably lots more tourists around now, there always was of course but todays are more wealthy.
I think we were looked at as more of an oddity in those days, in lots of places you just felt that the people hadn't seen white skin in the flesh before. of course there were no tv's, mobile phones etc, I remember all the excitement in pushkar when rumour got around that a travelling cinema was due in town, they had crowds there to watch a movie on a 2mt square screen which they set up on a corner just beyond the market
Chai cost between 15-25paisa depending where you where, rice meals dal/veg 1rp'ish
Back from mapsa to anjuna, pillion on a motorcycle/taxi 7rp, I think the bus cost 50paisa.
No shacks on calangute beach except for a few round bagga, & at calangutes concrete tourist block, the road between the beach & calangute gpo was fields lined with portuguese style houses,
just a few restauants around the x roads,
Goa really needs a full thread to itself.
Places became popular because of the welcomes you got there, Goa was & I guess still is laid back, and of course it was like arriving on a desert island which I suppose everyone has dreamed about at sometime, you could really live out your fantasies, And of course we did.

Pushkar, Well imagine, It was undiscovered, it was so unspoilt, you could get into more philosophy there and just chill out.

Manali & HP, well the beauty, what grew there was a bonus.
But of course word of mouth got around, I felt it especially with pushkar, You didn't pass through there ,With it being of the beaten track you actually had to make the effort to go there, but the word got around & people started going there to check it out
It's like if you find a good restaurant, you tell your friends, they go, enjoy it, tell there friends, before your know it coach parties are arriving.

The dream hasn't faded, We change, I've changed, India's changed, theres still places to go people to meet & sights to see,,,,,,,,

Wanderer22

After doing five trips to India in the 70's, I'm hoping to finally make it back this fall. I expect to be shocked by the change, especially in the cities. My plan is to avoid larger cities as much as possible.... I find that reading IndiaMike frequently triggers old memories. Some of the changes have been for the best. Am sure some old timers remember standing in line at American Express to pick up mail from home. Those thin blue aerograms full of news were as welcome as a cold Kingfisher after being too long in the noonday sun. Think I like e-mail better.

A favorite memory of the 70's were the grist mills in the small villages around Mirzapur. These were invariably run by a small single cylinder, low speed gasoline engine. The exhaust pipe extended up through the roof of the hut and was topped with a large inverted tin can. When they were running the exhaust pushed the can up producing a distintive sound that was quite musical. KeeerPluunk! The mills were usually run in the evening just at dusk. One would start up, then others would follow in near by villages. Before long the random notes would combine to form an evening raga drifting over the fields......

KeeerPluunk.. kerplink ..... kerplonk..ka-plink.....

Hope they are still going! Would enjoy trying to record their sounds. I to have a stack of old negatives that need scanning. What's the best size to upload? 1024x768 ? What about thumb nails? Does the system make them, or should 640x480 size be uploaded as well???

Wanderer22

Wanderer22

And don't forget the black market money changers who used to drive you nuts... Official rate 7 point something.... Black close to 14.
More than once I pretended to be Russian.

tout... "Change your money! Best rates".

me..... "Da! Goood rate for roubles"? (putting on accent)

tout... Not wanting roubles leaves..


Wanderer22

bijapuri

*western loos are no longer a rarity

*the opium dens have, for the most pert, vanished

*Health for travelers is much better

*food is much better

*touts are no longer mainly in the usual places. They can strike anywhere at will!

*1non-AC compartments have all but vanished on the railway

*cars are everywhere

*$10-15 hotels are everywhere and have amenities like AC. Room service, restaurants, attached bath, phone, etc.

*Desi tourists are everywhere

*Western stuff is everywhere

*plastic is everywhere

*The list of places ruined by tourism is a mile long

*Baseball hats are everywhere

*Tractors are everywhere
-------------------
What's still the same:

Indians are really cool and friendly

The magic is still there

Stay away from Agra!

Get off the beaten track, as wide as it is these days, and you're still in the "Old India"

__________________
"You know you don't have to act with me, Steve. You don't have to say anything, and you don't have to do anything. Not a thing. Oh, maybe just whistle. You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together andhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/bijapuri/

Utube fuzzy logic:
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=bijapuri&p =r

SHIMLA

cyberhippie,

I use your signature to express the difference : In the 70s and 80s there were far more acts of humanity per square mile in India than there are today !

__________________
Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to shop !

-m2-

gotta think about this one a bit, cyber. I recognize what everyone else is talking about so far, though.

in the meantime, here is a picture of a couple of nattily dressed dudes from the era which was sent to me by another Mike, (the one on the left). He entitled it 'cottage industry'

Attached Thumbnails

 

bijapuri

anyone who was there in the 1970 will likely remember this little ditty that plagued us unto madness!!!

http://www.hindisong.com/Songs/DumMaroDum.mp3

-m2-

Funny but I never remember any of bollywood songs in isolation like that. For me, I guess they're just 'part of the landscape'; I've no doubt heard it in some taxi, bus, cd vendor stall, etc but it doesn't really resonate on any deep level.

seventies'hippy

quote
anyone who was there in the 1970 will likely remember this little ditty that plagued us unto madness!!!

Oh yes,,,,, Thanks for that bij, I remember it well, though I had forgotten about it till now, Lots of memories.
Every little village that you trundled through on your truck or bus would have it blaring out from speakers on every corner. Couldn't escape it.
Another one which ws a hit at the time was called 'Andaz' everyone whistled sang N'hummed it, Nostalgia

wonderwomanusa

The last time I heard "dum maro dum" was in the India Gate scene in Salaam Bombay.

India was so different when I was first there (1971-1973).

Well, for one thing, we were all young and skinny! The skinny part was from being sick a lot -- for those who came overland (most of us, I think), the bacillic dysentery in Afghanistan usually had a lot to do with it. Others got hepatitis.

We rented a house in Puri for around $10 for two months -- and there wasn't much there. Looking down the beach, at crumbling mansions, was like looking at a Dali painting.

Houses in Goa weren't much more expensive; we had the house right behind Tito D'Souza's RichDavy Restaurant at Baga, and occasionally could get fridge privileges. Blind George's house was just next door to Tito's, and Alejandro's house half-way back to Calingute. (Those details are for Bij...)

There were NO vendors on the beach in Goa. No hustlers. And where I was, not much music... except for Tobias, playing his flute in the morning. The full moon parties and Blind George's birthday party (December 31) were pretty quiet -- most were too stoned to make any noise. Found out that hash gravy with opium (over fruitcake from Mapusa) is lethal... I wonder if the piggies got stoned on it too?

There were only about 100 foreigners at the Pushkar Mela -- and about 30 of those were Peace Corps wallahs. The King Edward Memorial Guest House in Ajmer (behind the Honeydew Restaurant) was still in use, and a wonderful place to stay!

In Delhi, I stayed at Mrs. Colaco's near Janpath, and later moved to the Buddhist mission near Mehrauli. DArmawara, the monk who ran the place, took good care of us.

There were few private cars, no plastic to speak of, and we'd get our peanuts twisted up in old bank correspondence.

All official papers required at least three hand-written copies and there was no carbon paper.

Foreign ladies were called "memsahib" then, and foreign men were called "sahib."

I might still have a copy of Tony Wheeler's first attempt at Lonely Planet -- a sheaf of mimeographed pages. I do, for sure, have my old journals and notebooks, with notes of hotels from other travellers.

seventies'hippy

Yes everyone is wealthier these days,,,,,,
I've left the uk several times with little more than £100 & no tickets of anysort.
Travelled overland one way or another, arrived in India, and felt rich, even wearing a watch made you feel rich, at that time a lot of young indian guys most prized possession was a belt which had a james bond buckle on it. Now It's the latest cell phone.
The cameraderie amongst the westerners, especially the long stay ones was so much closer than it could be today, perhaps these days, yes of course we're friendly, but that real openess isn't there, Perhaps western people now are suspicious of other peoples motives, The friendliness of our genuine indian friends shows that it still exists amongst them.
I used to feel, in a way guilty when I had money, even a relatively small amount, while you had money you couldn't get on the same level as the indian people,
There were a lot of guys like me who had nothing, You got to know them, we'd travel the same paths, If I arrived in India with a little money I'd help them out, monthe later when I had nothing it wasn't a great problem as sooner than later I'd meet someone who had.
If you had a watch or looked like you'd freshly arrived in india, you'd get no help from indians or westerners, If you'd been around for a while & your whole world was obviously in your bedroll, Then that opened up a whole new world,
It wasn't planned, you just went with it at the time, It can't be done now, just like what can be done now, won't be the same in 30yrs time

cyberhippie

Wonderful stuff guys I'm getting nostalgic and I wasn't even there!!
Shimla or any other Indian members can you give us a little more from the the Indian point of view how was life back then, Shimla must have been wonderful back then fewer cars, tourist, etc. When did tourism really take off???
Oh and WWUSA please can you share some of the funnier parts off the first LP I read it once 13 years ago and I remember it being quite comical, especially the explantion of the Indian head wobble!!
And wanderer any size is fine the photo site offers a blow up of the image anyway and the thumbnails are automatically created, so please those photos!!

anonymous

Goa

No electricity on Anjuna Beach, music in shack restaurants powered by car battery

Candles and coconut shells used instead of flashlights

Real music not techno at parties where people brought sleeping bags and made fires on the beach

Enfields not a mandatory fashion statement

French junkies - "You 'ave rupee for me?"

No TV at all - never mind cable, bucket showers, toilet in the bushes somewhere and use of toilet paper frowned on

Bottled water, Marlboros - rare luxuries

Splendid isolation, good or bad news couldn't reach you quickly, even in Delhi oversea telephone calls had to be booked in advance at the main Post Office

seventies'hippy

quote:
Candles and coconut shells used instead of flashlights

Yeah they worked pretty well too, How come no one had a flash light!
I've even scrambled up the cliff behind vagator beach in the light of a burning palm frond,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,