Permanent Residency

dzibead · Mar 6th, 2008, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

Princess W,
I'm not exactly sure about the case of step-kids, but my gut feeling is they wud be eligible after a year as well for PIO cards. Don't remember any specific exclusion on the govt. websites. Otherwise your nearest consulate can clarify.

Hm. I really don't know what Indian law on this would be so I probably shouldn't speculate ... but I will ... my suspicion is that step-children will have no particular rights, unless the husband actually adopts them. In the U.S., for example, there are ordinarily no legal rights/obligations between step-parents and non-adopted step-children, e.g., in California, if a step-parent dies without having a will, step-child will not inherit anything, but a biological child or adopted child has an automatic right of inheritance. Maybe the mother's immigration status confers some sort of derivative right on her children if they are still minors, but my guess is that it won't be as simple as that. This is definitely a question for the Indian Consulate, as Dilliwala suggests!

Dilliwala · Mar 6th, 2008, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

An Entry visa is what is often called an "X" visa, and yes, that is what she should apply for until she can get PIO.

It will permit (unless otherwise endorsed) stay of longer than 180 days.

Your advise about resident's permit, DW, is a bit confusing, as RP doesn't even come into the picture until she has a visa which allows/requires her to register.

Yes, but tht was my point - X visa is useful only if staying more than 180 days, isn't it? For less, what qwud be wrong with a tourist visa? Surely simpler to get for all of 'em?

If they are actually moving to India, she will get the visa to move here with her husband, based on which she will be "entitled to an RP" allowing longer stay. Obviously I wasn't suggesting that our embassies abroad issue RPs to spouses of Indians.

Nick-H · Mar 6th, 2008, 23:52

She has said that she doesn't want the 180-day limit, and enquired as to whether she could get an X visa...

Quote:

So couldn't I go for an entry visa from the start? That would make things a whole lot easier, I'd think, without the hassle of the 180 day limit as it is on the tourist Visa.

It was you that brought RPs into the question, in my opinion erroneously, or, at least, irrelevantly .

But we do not know if she/they plan to live in India, and I echo your request for further information.

An X visa, if entitlement is clear, is just as simple (in my experience outside of India) to get as a tourist visa.

I do share your hunch that they will be treated as one family, and if she is given one-year X visas, so will the children be. They might be a little fussier about PIO.

Cost is going to be a factor here, given that a whole family has to be paid for. The economics of covering an occasional visit every few years will be very different to regular or extended visits.

Quote:

If they are actually moving to India, she will get the visa to move here with her husband, based on which she will be "entitled to an RP" allowing longer stay.

It isn't the RP that determines the length of stay; it is the visa.

Dilliwala · Mar 7th, 2008, 01:05

The question/s was/were unclear (to me) - I therefore do not think my request for more info in the form of Qs erroneous or irrelevant -

a) They're coming to tie the knot. Is it unthinkable that they will not stay for a long time in that case? Therefore a clarif to the effect was in order.

b) Again becos of unclarity (to me anyway), if u marry someone it's conceivable that u stay together? In India too? So then an RP wud be relevant?
And it's a no-brainer (even to me) that RPs are linked to visas, i.e. u get one as a direct consequence of having a visa (the right kind). But it wud not be incorrect to say that if u have an RP, it's becos your other/preceding paperwork is in order?
Can u think of a situation where a foreign spouse is in the first instance denied the opportunity to be with her/his Indian resident spouse? No? Well, that's where I was going with this. The OP already said she understands little of our immig laws. Therefore I thought my 'simple' explanations wud help. Pity they didn't get past u.

Quote:

But we do not know if she/they plan to live in India, and I echo your request for further information

Hmm, so u acknowledge u do not know either, but were prepared to judge with finality at my hazarding guesses. A bit quick on the trigger there.

Nick-H · Mar 7th, 2008, 02:01

You said

Quote:

I therefore do not think my request for more info in the form of Qs erroneous or irrelevant -

I said

Quote:

But we do not know if she/they plan to live in India, and I echo your request for further information.

If you're going to argue, do argue about the bits where we disagree!

Quote:

... So then an RP wud be relevant?

Not until after the visa's are sorted out, not at all relevant. Not relevant until she sets foot on Indian soil.

You said

Quote:

RPs are linked to visas, i.e. u get one as a direct consequence of having a visa (the right kind). But it wud not be incorrect to say that if u have an RP, it's becos your other/preceding paperwork is in order?

I said

Quote:

... RP doesn't even come into the picture until she has a visa which allows/requires her to register.

Again, we are not disagreeing, but you seem to think we are.

Quote:

The OP already said she understands little of our immig laws. Therefore I thought my 'simple' explanations wud help. Pity they didn't get past u.

They didn't get past me because they were confusing, like

Quote:

Are u and hubby moving to India? If u are, then u will be entitled to a res. permit.

Well, assuming she has the relevant visa, yes. But then we're both agreed on that now.

Dilliwala · Mar 7th, 2008, 02:49

Quote:

I said
Quote:
But we do not know if she/they plan to live in India, and I echo your request for further information.

Yes, AFTER making a pronouncement that my bit was irrelevant. First pronouncement, then uncertainty. Usually it's the other way around.

Quote:

Not until after the visa's are sorted out, not at all relevant. Not relevant until she sets foot on Indian soil

Sheesh! here we go again?

Is it poss to get an RP WITHOUT the preceding visa? No? Thank you!
"Not relevant till setting foot on Indian soil". But certainly AFTER? Considering RPs are not given for staying in cyberspace yet?

Sheesh! again. Never realised I wud have to spell everything out, just to avoid further comment. Visas are already complicated as it is, I WAS trying to keep it simple! And if u don't look at from an official/bureaucratic angle, u'll find there was in essence no incorrect info given by me. Anyway, even if u disagree I'm going to stop now for fear of spooking the OP further!

Quote:

They didn't get past me because they were confusing, like
Quote:....

Well, assuming she has the relevant visa, yes.

Well, YEAH, always assuming! Which makes the assumption superfluous. Again sheesh! is it poss......oh, I already said that part. In short, I'm sure no one expects to be applying for an RP on a tourist visa!

I think I shud stay out of visa threads in future, seems ' keeping it simple' makes it 'complicated'!

Nick-H · Mar 7th, 2008, 10:05

Look, just read what I said, goodness knows how many posts ago, calm down and forget it.

Ms Princess W · Jun 11th, 2008, 01:36

Well hey! I just stumbled on this thread after MONTHS and see I sorta incited an arguement - I'm very sorry I didn't get back to this until now.

We ARE in fact MOVING to India. Hence my need for information with regard to the Entry Visa, and the question about stepchildren and what kind of documentation they will need. We've talked about my husband-to-be adopting them legally, but I believe that would have to be done here in the US - and we're planning to leave the US for India as early as this coming August.

I got my sons' passports and we will have our USA wedding very soon - after which I will get my passport, then the visas. I'm pretty sure the Indian Consulate would approve entry visas for me and my boys, and based on our marriage a PIO card at least for me in a year. I haven't gotten a clear answer anywhere on whether my sons will be eligible for a PIO though.

Nick-H · Jun 11th, 2008, 03:15

Argument? Oh right... It happens... All friends again now

Yes, I think you are right to apply for X visa after your marriage, and a PIO card a year later. You should have no problems with that.

There is a theoretical possibility of applying for Indian citizenship after so many years as a PIO card holder, of which a certain amount must have been spent living in India. You would have to give up your American citizenship, which you might not want to do. Apart from that, PIO is about as good as it gets for us spouses that do not have any actual Indian blood in our veins.

Don't know about your children...

Be nice if you let us know what you discover

Dilliwala · Jun 12th, 2008, 02:01

Quote:

Apart from that, PIO is about as good as it gets for us spouses that do not have any actual Indian blood in our veins.

Hmmm, which begs the question - what if one of you receives a blood transfusion, from a desi? And if it is your spouse's blood, is that better? What if the transfusion took place outside India?
What if......err, I'll stop now.

Nick-H · Jun 12th, 2008, 02:56

It might be ok if one could get a blood transfusion from one's grandfather, assuming that he had been in India, and had never left, between Independence day and Republic day...

Ms Princess W · Jun 12th, 2008, 02:59

Well, I definitely won't be so bold as to predict what I'll want 8 years from now, but if after 7 years of living in India as a PIO cardholder I decide to renounce my USA citizenship and become an Indian citizen, I'll do it without regret.

Nick-H · Jun 12th, 2008, 03:09

It's a long way ahead, and I'd join you in not even thinking about it for a long time, but I know some of the questions on my mind would be... entitlement to UK pension (if it still exists at the tiem; ease of travel to mother- and other countries on US/UK passport or Indian passport... I'm sure there's more. Will think about that bridge when I see it on the horizon

Dilliwala · Jun 13th, 2008, 00:45

Oh, I'll be frank - I don't think either of you shud ever give up your nationalities. I wudn't if I moved to another country. Plus with your spouses' Indian citizenships, you're on pretty firm footing in this country. And your spouses are on firmer footing in your home countries, for whatever short-term or long-term stays. Best of both worlds - keep your PPs.

Nick-H · Jun 13th, 2008, 01:36

Yes, I'd agree, and I there have been a few Returning Indians here in the forum who have elected for OCI/PIO along with USA/whatever citizenship. They remember what it was like applying for those visas to go to USA or UK, for a start, and that is something that is only going to get harder.

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Mar 7th, 2008, 10:05	#37
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,921	Look, just read what I said, goodness knows how many posts ago, calm down and forget it.

Jun 11th, 2008, 01:36	#38
Ms Princess W Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota for now Posts: 80	Well hey! I just stumbled on this thread after MONTHS and see I sorta incited an arguement - I'm very sorry I didn't get back to this until now. We ARE in fact MOVING to India. Hence my need for information with regard to the Entry Visa, and the question about stepchildren and what kind of documentation they will need. We've talked about my husband-to-be adopting them legally, but I believe that would have to be done here in the US - and we're planning to leave the US for India as early as this coming August. I got my sons' passports and we will have our USA wedding very soon - after which I will get my passport, then the visas. I'm pretty sure the Indian Consulate would approve entry visas for me and my boys, and based on our marriage a PIO card at least for me in a year. I haven't gotten a clear answer anywhere on whether my sons will be eligible for a PIO though.

Jun 11th, 2008, 03:15	#39
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,921	Argument? Oh right... It happens... All friends again now Yes, I think you are right to apply for X visa after your marriage, and a PIO card a year later. You should have no problems with that. There is a theoretical possibility of applying for Indian citizenship after so many years as a PIO card holder, of which a certain amount must have been spent living in India. You would have to give up your American citizenship, which you might not want to do. Apart from that, PIO is about as good as it gets for us spouses that do not have any actual Indian blood in our veins. Don't know about your children... Be nice if you let us know what you discover

Jun 12th, 2008, 02:56	#41
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,921	It might be ok if one could get a blood transfusion from one's grandfather, assuming that he had been in India, and had never left, between Independence day and Republic day...

Jun 12th, 2008, 02:59	#42
Ms Princess W Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minnesota for now Posts: 80	Well, I definitely won't be so bold as to predict what I'll want 8 years from now, but if after 7 years of living in India as a PIO cardholder I decide to renounce my USA citizenship and become an Indian citizen, I'll do it without regret.

Jun 12th, 2008, 03:09	#43
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,921	It's a long way ahead, and I'd join you in not even thinking about it for a long time, but I know some of the questions on my mind would be... entitlement to UK pension (if it still exists at the tiem; ease of travel to mother- and other countries on US/UK passport or Indian passport... I'm sure there's more. Will think about that bridge when I see it on the horizon

Jun 13th, 2008, 00:45	#44
Dilliwala Funky flunky Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dilli Posts: 3,604	Oh, I'll be frank - I don't think either of you shud ever give up your nationalities. I wudn't if I moved to another country. Plus with your spouses' Indian citizenships, you're on pretty firm footing in this country. And your spouses are on firmer footing in your home countries, for whatever short-term or long-term stays. Best of both worlds - keep your PPs.

Jun 13th, 2008, 01:36	#45
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,921	Yes, I'd agree, and I there have been a few Returning Indians here in the forum who have elected for OCI/PIO along with USA/whatever citizenship. They remember what it was like applying for those visas to go to USA or UK, for a start, and that is something that is only going to get harder.

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