"Not under my roof!"

capt_mahajan

The OP doesn't want to move. But, in his place, I would take this as a learning experience. consider it- and move on and out.

And try to setup a less intrusive arrangement next time with the landlord, right from the beginning.

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elegbedebarbara

I am really sorry to hear about this but imagne that it may be a common problem where neighbors are interested in who comee and goes on the property, whether it is a large complex or small complex. There are very large complex's however in Delhi and I stayed there with an Indian guy for awhile as a visitor and no one seemed to notice one way or another. He always had alot of visitors. Neighbors didn't seem to be friendly to each other unless they had children who played in the green areas on the ground. There were lifts that went up 7 or 8 floors. I am planning on renting an apartment in Delhi in the next few months and one of the things I will be looking for is a place where the neighbors don't all know each other because I do intend to have visitors over all the time, and an extra room, for them to stay. I am a woman in my sixties and alone. I wonder if my age will preclude local people from accussations of this type. After all it seemed to me that for the most part, except the young and hip, sort of thought that older people didn't have any carnal thoughts after 50, or participate in sex anymore! I kept getting comments of this type when I was in India last year, things like, "at your age, you aren't interested in this type of thing anymore, are you?" That comment lead to a lot of interesting conversations!

I think if I was in the situation you have mentioned, I would start looking for another place to live. It does appear, at least from the internet, that there are many vacancies in the Delhi area, although moving and the deposits are an extra expense.

vandy

I thought I saw somewhere Recently on this site someone offering
the takeover of his lease for a quite nice looking 2 bedroom flat
in Delhi.

Personally I couldn't put up with that sort of CRAP.

vandy

brishti

tofu:
what you've experienced is neither gender and/or nationality based.
when i take a place on rent, be it an apt or whatever...
right at the start, i clarify that i will have visitors of both genders and sometimes i may have sleepovers.
if them suggestions have a problem, i dont take the place.
its usually much easier to clarify stuff, that one usually takes for granted, right at the start - no problems afterwards.
it dont matter if the landlord has a merc [ ! ] in his driveway - clarify...

move out of this place, the situation will only worsen.
dont argue-fuss-fight, its not worth it.

some places have veg/non-veg/community restrictions as well.
its a cultural difference


:brishti

puchoo

To have a clause on your lease regarding restrictions on women coming over etc is highly unlikely, atleast it would the first time i have heard of it..

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brishti

it aint a written clause puchoos - and in all probability, it wont even be verbalised at the time of renting out the place.
the onus is on the tenant - to clarify verbally right at the start... in the course of conversation.

no matter how 'modern' the landlord/lady seems to be - clarify.
saves all sorts of harassments later on.


:brishti

puchoo

Yep i know that Brishti, i said that with reference to Cap'n saying "Not unless he had it in your lease.:

I dont know about where the onus would lie, for me i might not bring up a few things a d prefer to leave them in a grey area....later if anything is objected to , i ca 'you never told me'..... plus personally i think its absurd that i need to give a detailed report on my friends , who thay are , what they do, why would they want to come over etc etc...

...it irritates me to no end at times that on one hand landlords such as this guy are "in tune" with todays markets and the rent rates are 'keeping with the modern times'...but their knowledge, ability to rationalize is about as prehistoric as the dodo...

For god's sakes if one have so many issues open a PG instead..

brishti

aah - but everything has 'em fineprints nowadays dont it!
its all about monies - but conditions apply.

actually, its quite simple really - clarify.
if one leaves it to the but-you-didnt-tell-me-so stage, stuff gets ugly, as tofu has experienced.
why get to that point, when right at the beginning you set the record straight.

sure, there are inconsistencies in just about every aspect of life - but heck, i dont have time to 'reason'.
keep all above board - see if both parties are comfortable - get on with your life


:brishti

capt_mahajan

and that was in response to 'legal status'.

A lease agreement may have something vague like 'creating a nuisance'- a catch all phrase, since 'nuisance' is not defined and open to the landlord (and sometimes the Housing Society's) interpretation.

puchoo

Yes it was , i was not trying to lay it all on you Cap'n!!

Other than a safety angle (which can always be thought up of) i am critical of opinions like this...something similar happened at the new office where we shifted in recently..

The owner of the building is a Vegan, non smoker..and one of the things he told our director and admin guy was that he does not want anyone to bring in Non veg or order it or smoke in the office compound (which includes the driveway, lawn etc)...needless to say its impossible to do that...imagine the admin guy running around at lunch each day examining all the boxes , and the smokers ofcourse raised a hue and cry..... in the end the landlord was told to be logical about it, and if he was not we would move.... he has not said anything since then.......and i think he has taken to smoking himself as well..

brishti

them fineprints!

and i will stop now - but guys and gals - verbalise your social preferances - nay, not your sexual preferances - oofff!


:brishti


"i was not trying to lay it all on you Cap'n!!" cheeky puchoos!!!
did you know they have non-smoking apartments/buildings out in the west too? there goes all me travel plans - up in smoke!

tofu67

'what you've experienced is neither gender and/or nationality based.'

There is some good feedback here and it certainly helps me to see things from the perspective of the landlord a little more clearly. If anything though, it makes me more resolute in staying put.

What I am getting from several posters is the argument that because I am an India I need to adapt to the culture here. My argument is that this is not Indian culture per se but more the case of two rather pious individuals who expect me to hold the same notions of propriety as they themselves hold; beliefs that are determined largely by the religion they practice. The fact is, they would have been quite aware of foreign girls staying over. I had an American girlfriend last year who would regularly stay over, this did not invite any expressions of moral indignation or any extreme knee jerk reaction such as what I and my gf are currently experiencing.

It seems that most of their contempt is channeled toward my girlfriend. Perhaps this is because they hold the notion that in a patriarchal society it is not too unacceptable for men to seek company of women outside marriage or even pay for sex, but it is the woman's actions that are shameful, indecent and immoral. She will suffer social exclusion (or worse) and will likely be branded a prostitute, particularly in the case of Indian ladies who spend time with foreigners (it seems). Now the inference here is that an Indian lady will not choose to sleep over at a foreigner's apartment unless she is being paid to have sex, since no right minded Indian lady would degrade herself for free. It is this thought process that I find quite offensive and feel naturally inclined to challenge. I am not prepared to suffer the indignity of moving house on the basis that people will believe what it suits them to believe, rather face the reality that an unmarried woman may actually choose to be with an older foreign man, and be a decent person. I feel as though I would be fueling their prejudices by skulking off elsewhere. Besides if I just spent a fair amount on having curtains measured up and hung in my flat!

Of course one should show respect for the culture in which one lives but this does not necessarily mean that one has to adopt the same same beliefs or live one's life as if they share the same belief. What is right, good and proper for my landlord may not be so for me, but what I do in the privacy of my flat, and with whom, and at what time is entirely my affair so long as I am not keeping anyone awake.

By branding my gf a prostitute, this is highly offensive and insulting to her, it also labels me as one who is unable to enjoy the company of Indian ladies unless I pay them. Actually they probably had not considered the possibility that I may be the prostitute!

On the basis of this he has decided to ban all females after 11pm. I am imagining a scenario whereby I have a few guests over for dinner and drinks - come 11pm I have to explain to female guests only that they will have to leave since my landlord will notify the police and attempt to have me evicted.

I have many friends who co-habitate, both Indian and foreign and they do not have to suffer the indignity of being told that their behaviour is not right and that they must adapt.

It will be more difficult from now onwards but I am afraid the landlord will have to accept that I have my lifestyle and he has his. What I do in my free time really is no concern of his and ought not to affect him - he will need to get used to the fact that other people make different choices. As far as the neighbours are concerned, I actually think many are more intrigued then outraged by what their local farang gets up to.

Stef

edwardseco

You just don't get differences of culture do you? Thankfully you aren't American so we won't get the usual "ugly american" schtick..

capt_mahajan

I would say that there is a cultural difference between the terms, written and unwritten, in the way apartments are let in the West and in India. Those cultural differences you may have to adapt to, or get around.


I agree with you here, and, like I said earlier, at some stage you will lose your cool- and implied that you should avoid that if possible, specially since you plan to continue to live there.


I doubt that will happen, and there, in your place, I would threaten (and call) the cops if he attempted or threatened to evict me.


All that aside, I would, having decided to stay there, make it clear to the landlord that I did not want to spoil relations any further, but I was going to have visitors, that they would stay late, that nothing about visitor restrictions was mentioned in the lease or verbally prior agreement- and that any further harrassment of visitors would make me take 'appropriate action' which would be problematic and expensive for him.


The guy is harrassing you more since you are a foreigner and presumably temporary- he would be more wary of an Indian- what if he doesn't vacate the premises?


Polite, but firm, is the way I would go. As far as possible.

brishti

hey stef - i totally and absolutely empathise with you.

but 'teaching' the landlord and hence having to bear all sorts of harassments... is it worth it... all that energy and angst?

just because you move out [ not saying you will ] - will not mean that you've given up a fight.
just means - you got better, positive stuff to invest your energy on!

life is short - its also a bi*ch... sh*t happens


:brishti