Britons rush to India for the boom

PeakXV

I thought the whole apology thing in Canada was a little (no very much) disingenuous at the time - as did many of the native leaders. And it only allowed the government to pat themselves on the back, rest on their laurels and continue to not solve the endemic problems of poverty, alcoholisn, & racism that plague Canada's Natives as much or even more so today - ten years on from the 'The Big Sorry'.

__________________
We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started ...and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Eliot

Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

iwanttogoback

the same purpose a heartfelt apology in any situation serves: acknowledgement of wrong, suffering, pain; and an opportunity for forgiveness and then the opportunity to move on.

kristinm

I hope that doesn't happen here - the indigenous leaders were the driving force behind it so maybe not..?? The thing is the apology itself may not change things,and nothing may happen afterwards.that depends on the will of people to act. but conversely, where there is a festering issue can we begin to change things without first beginning with an apology and acknowledgement of past wrongs and injustices... perhaps something like that has to happen before action can take place? It has been like a black cloud hanging over every attempt at reconciliation, every policy and every decision and every public gathering of indigenous people. Many said on Wednesday that for the first time in their lives they felt Australian...

Mickey S

But the difference is, Kristin, that unless you are of aboriginal descent then you - and almost every other white Australian - are a descendent of those colonists. To say that "we were under colonial rule" is therefore nonsense - you are the colonist, not the colonised.

Shiver me Timbers

Not too sure on apologising either - where will it end?

Should the Mongolians apologise for rampaging halfway across the world, destroying everything in their path?

Should the Turks apologise for 600 years of colonialism and slavery in the Balkans and Caucsuses?

On the other hand, not apologising simply because nobody else will does not seem right either. Perhaps apologising shows the world that you're bigger than those who don't.

Tough call.

__________________
Europe to India Overland

Andaman's Tips

Pakistan Tips

Nick-H

The Turks should apologise for what they did to the Armenians.

Or at least admit it.

__________________
.


Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Mickey S

I think Britain should demand an apology from Denmark for the Viking invasion; it was, after all, a brutal period.

Apologies for the past are utterly meaningless. But, if India wants one, maybe Britain could agree to apologise for the bad aspects of the colonial era if India simultaneously thanks the British for all the good things that came out of it? Sounds fair to me.

Nick-H

I don't think anyone has says that India does want one.

Nor do I think UK figures large on the Indian horizon. India is more interested in America these days.

Also, I guess, Russia, China, Pakistan.

Dilliwala

My point exactly on the previous page. But my other point re also not bringing up "we did all that for them" has been studiously avoided by those who are saying "what good will an apology do?"
If Brits can't handle the bad things about their past, then they have to be even-handed and not go on about the good thing (cricket) either. Notwithstanding my personal opinion, Mickey S is way off-mark if he believes the balance-sheet wud or cud ever be even by his simplistic formulation. The balance-sheet will always be heavily skewed, in India's favour.

Again, to emphasise, Capt, crvlvr and I have been clear that we are not asking for an apology, that's for the people of the concerned countries to decide. But Capt has put it very succinctly and crisply - we don't want facts to be denied either (not to put too fine a point on it, Ole Phil is still alive).
And Britons on a regular basis (don't mean u personally) still have the habit of glossing over the bad and emphasising the "good". My 2 rupees.

Oh? What good wud an apology do, or what difference wud it make?

See? Many can play this game.

Mickey S

Wud u like sumthing 2 grind that axe on, dilliwala?

Brits have no more of a problem in facing up to their past than any other nation. In fact, it often seems as though all we ever do is examine our past failures and beat ourselves up over it. There have been many, many times in recent history when we as a nation have behaved extremely badly, either through political expediency or mere incompetence. Most recently, our unquestioning march into Iraq in America's footsteps is a cause of massive national anxiety and regret. The simple fact is that India is not regarded by most Britons either as a failure nor as a shameful period in our past.

I disagree. India - like almost every other nation that was once a colony of a European power - is in a much better state today than if it had never been a colony. Notwithstanding the odd atrocity (which I am not trivialising, and for which there is no excuse), the economic, political and physical infrastructure that Britain left behind was significant. Today's India is built on it.

capt_mahajan

MickeyS, you really need to get an education on this one. And yes, you are trivialising, IMHO

And since, in an earlier post, you say

What may sounds fair to some is an Indian occupation of Great Britain. But maybe that is underway already.

PeakXV

AND don't forget all that rather sticky bureaucratic-procedural 'Red Tape' that often turns one day into four, an ordinary request into a thesis paper, & a simple business venture into a triathlon-like challenge .


....... and I wouldn't want her any other way!

AwayFromHome

Mickey S, I love hypotheticals (I do, otherwise possess an excellent character) so I'll pose one for you:

If you had the power to decide if Britain should occupy India, would you do it all over again? A simple Yes or No would suffice.

And no, you can't cherry pick what you'd like to repeat - everything would be repeated.

Nick-H

Massive national ignorance. I've been there, as I've said in an earlier post. We used to look at that old pink map and think of it as the days when the British Empire was Great.

An even simpler fact is that very many of our countrymen know bugger all about India, past or present, anyway.

Now, that is laughable. Perhaps you'd like to list the successes we left behind us? How about beginning with the African continent?

Shiver me Timbers

Perhaps what Mickey is getting at is that, for better or for worse, the European powers shaped the modern world in which we live today, and there is a chance that without the British involvement, India left to its own devices might have got left behind.

I'm not too sure where I stand on this matter right now - however, Ethiopia and Afghanistan are two countries that were the homes of previous glorious dynasties, but never properly colonised by European powers, and they didn't exactly turn out great, did they?

It's still no excuse for the crimes committed in India (or Kenya, Ireland, or wherever) - however, I also think it's important to remember that these are the crimes of any colonising power throughout history, and are certainly not unique to the British, or to European powers for that matter. It's simply been the way of human history so far.