Britons rush to India for the boom

crvlvr · Feb 13th, 2008, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilliwala

Oh, let's not forget that the most active collaborators the last time around too were Indians. 4000 foreigners cannot rule a sub-continent without a not-very-small but influential number selling out.

I am not certain if yuo state the 4,000 number in jest.. but, just in case others think that it is accurate:
From wikipedia on East India Company:

Quote:

At the time, the strength of the Company's Army in India was 238,000, of whom 38,000 were Europeans.

38,000 was just the number of soldiers. The total number Brits in India was certainly more than that. Grnated, it is small number compared to the Indian population, however the Brits were armed and Indians were not.

capt_mahajan · Feb 13th, 2008, 12:37

Agree with Nick's last post.

India is not just selling out to foreigners. It is selling out to big Indian business as well, because, in a nutshell, it is tailoring policies which benefit big business, both Indian and foreign, at the expense of the vast majority of it's poor citizens

All it really has to show for it is two things.

a) Increased consumption, which it is promoting, western style. Yesterday the finance minister, in response to lower manufacturing,agricultural and service industry growth rates, continued to ask banks to lower interest rates because quote consumption drives production drives investment unquote and

What I think is, if all middle class Indians stop buying clothes for one month (which we have a surplus of anyway), malls will consider closing down.

b) the stockmarket, which is going through a downturn along with global markets. But the stockmarket is a measure of the projected economy and also greed; it is not a measure of whether there has been a material change in the living conditions of the vast majority of Indians

PS a note on the number of British vs no. of Indians.. the East India company conquered because India then was a series of kingdoms, and they successively fought small kingdoms while (for the time being) having 'peace treaties' with other ones, and also many Indians in those courts were willing to betray their rulers.

It then grew like a Hydra, getting stronger and annexing other kingdoms sometimes without a fight. Later, the British Government did this too, (google Doctrine of Lapse, for one). It also was parasitic, 'breaking the backbone' of the places it occupied, with arbitrary and crippling taxes, ridiculous 'trade'/loot at the point of a gun. It emptied treasuries for personal gain.

And then it handed over everything to the British Crown.

It was not a simple case of a fight between all the people on the subcontinent vs all the soldiers here. (btw, many foot soldiers in the EIC were Indian, later, or they had neighbouring kingdoms offering them logistical support).

vargoje3 · Feb 13th, 2008, 12:41

Just a thought but could it be that the what we refer to the "baby boomers" here in the US are all retiring and looking for a nice tropical climate to settle down in?

iwanttogoback · Feb 13th, 2008, 12:47

Quote:

Quote:
Having said that. I leave you woth quote from Lord Macaulay
and that is exactly what the american govt. did to the american indians..."unless we break the back bone of this very nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage..."

amazing. or maybe not.

not amazing at all, just standard operating procedure for taking over someone else's country. i'm sure there are people here in my country who would be absolutely gobsmacked to learn that there are indigenous languages (100s of them) here.

sorry, still OT.

rangers · Feb 13th, 2008, 13:39

Its true that MNC are garlanded on investment Here. but we have working EXPRIENCE of more 200 Years.
This time we know how to tilt the deal.
But am sure BASUDEVA KUTUMBA KUM ( universe is a family)is understood here.

brishti · Feb 13th, 2008, 14:17

i am totally

by your post rangers. what do you mean by 'experience'? experience of what ... of selling out? of work ehtics/integrity/professionalism? of dignity of labour?

Quote:

What I think is, if all middle class Indians stop buying clothes for one month (which we have a surplus of anyway), malls will consider closing down.

b) the stockmarket, which is going through a downturn along with global markets. But the stockmarket is a measure of the projected economy and also greed; it is not a measure of whether there has been a material change in the living conditions of the vast majority of Indians.

yes cap'n - today urban india surely = consumerism aka plastics, which deluded folks view india to be shining. amartya sen has said something to the effect of... till a country has provided education and healthcare for all its citizens, its just an illusion of development.

i must stop getting into these discussions - back to them navy cuts and a darjeeling cuppa

:brishti

shashank.aggarwal · Feb 13th, 2008, 16:51

Okay..lets stop promoting industries...and start putting the money where the experts will love it !!

Suggestions please - Education, Healthcare ? let them come...

iwanttogoback · Feb 13th, 2008, 17:11

sanitation, especially toilets. and not for the convenience of tourists like me, but for the improved health and all that flows from that for the average indian without proper sanitation.

Nick-H · Feb 13th, 2008, 20:05

Rangers, sorry, but you don't have a clue. Nothing personal; India doesn't have a clue.

In the face of the American 'world trade' profiteering, grasping colonialisation drive, India is putty.

The assertion that this time India knows how to deal is part of the seduction process. Have some heroin, you can handle it.

On the government/big business thing, it is nothing short of flabbergasting!

BB: Hey, Govt, we want to manufacture a new car!

Govt: Oh! That's great! Would you like some land to do it on?

BB: That'd be nice.

Govt: Right! How about this bit? It's got some farmers living on it, but leave that to us.

BB: OK, thanks, Carry on. Just one thing...

Govt: Yes?

BB: we wouldn't want you to take any taxes out of the vast profit that we intend to make. You will have to come up with a formula so that we don't pay anyway.

Govt: Sez You!

BB: What? Oh! Special Economic Zone? Now you're talking!

Errr... Why, for god's sake? Baksheesh, I suppose

capt_mahajan · Feb 13th, 2008, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

Okay..lets stop promoting industries...and start putting the money where the experts will love it !!

Suggestions please - Education, Healthcare ? let them come...

If you don't stop corruption first, you can put money wherever you want, it doesn't matter.

But we forgot, the babus and the politicians say... we are reforming the economy!
Isn't that nice?. It is just that we will just tackle corruption last, ok? Because we are reforming the economy, not ourselves.

So line up, Business. Let's make hay while our son's shine.

Meanwhile, for the rest of you, here's the latest fix, oops, model of cellphone, my friends.

See how much we have progressed?

Sama · Feb 13th, 2008, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shashank.aggarwal

Okay..lets stop promoting industries...and start putting the money where the experts will love it !!

Suggestions please - Education, Healthcare ? let them come...

sanitation and the environment. goes hand in hand as far as I see it.

the garbage in some areas of Chennai is out of this world which impacts peoples' health and the environment.

not to mention India's holiest river, the Ganges, which is also one of the most polluted. doesn't anyone question "why?" it's become an open sewer in many places. what's wrong with that picture?

think I posted a video about it here somewhere.....

Nick-H · Feb 13th, 2008, 21:19

Captain: Your entire argument is utterly invalidated by an incorrect apostrophe.

Pity, but there it is. Nothing we can do about it now.

capt_mahajan · Feb 13th, 2008, 22:02

Why? It's an apostrophe, not a catastrophe!

Dilliwala · Feb 13th, 2008, 23:04

Quote:

I am not certain if yuo state the 4,000 number in jest.. but, just in case others think that it is accurate:
From wikipedia on East India Company:

Wikipedia is hardly the definitive end-all authority on things historical, but nevertheless I won't dsipute their numbers. But I was talking of those running things, making policy, etc - not their wives and kids and governesses, etc. Also, foot soldiers don't count in the scheme of running things, even if British. The number of Indian soldiers fighting in British ranks was far greater, if anything, - their number wud also have to be considered 'British' in that case.

Nice dramatic adaptation by Nick, altho a bit inaccurate with the car example where BB approached the govt, not the otherway round. Also a bit simplistic combining separate issues - a car factory and an SEZ. The recent example/s of both in WB are not limked, other than that the common man got screwed in both cases, by a "people's govt", no less.

Nick-H · Feb 13th, 2008, 23:12

Well, I never claimed to be getting my facts right

--- but I thought it was the site on which the Tata Nano is intended to be manufactured. Corrections welcome.

Captain: you just do not appreciate the importance of correct apostrophe usage, and I'm afraid there's nothing more to be said.

A little more seriously,

Let's make hay while our sons shine

...Brilliant

Feb 13th, 2008, 12:37	#32
capt_mahajan (in charge of navel affairs) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 9,050	Agree with Nick's last post. India is not just selling out to foreigners. It is selling out to big Indian business as well, because, in a nutshell, it is tailoring policies which benefit big business, both Indian and foreign, at the expense of the vast majority of it's poor citizens All it really has to show for it is two things. a) Increased consumption, which it is promoting, western style. Yesterday the finance minister, in response to lower manufacturing,agricultural and service industry growth rates, continued to ask banks to lower interest rates because quote consumption drives production drives investment unquote and What I think is, if all middle class Indians stop buying clothes for one month (which we have a surplus of anyway), malls will consider closing down. b) the stockmarket, which is going through a downturn along with global markets. But the stockmarket is a measure of the projected economy and also greed; it is not a measure of whether there has been a material change in the living conditions of the vast majority of Indians PS a note on the number of British vs no. of Indians.. the East India company conquered because India then was a series of kingdoms, and they successively fought small kingdoms while (for the time being) having 'peace treaties' with other ones, and also many Indians in those courts were willing to betray their rulers. It then grew like a Hydra, getting stronger and annexing other kingdoms sometimes without a fight. Later, the British Government did this too, (google Doctrine of Lapse, for one). It also was parasitic, 'breaking the backbone' of the places it occupied, with arbitrary and crippling taxes, ridiculous 'trade'/loot at the point of a gun. It emptied treasuries for personal gain. And then it handed over everything to the British Crown. It was not a simple case of a fight between all the people on the subcontinent vs all the soldiers here. (btw, many foot soldiers in the EIC were Indian, later, or they had neighbouring kingdoms offering them logistical support). __________________ . Humpty Dumpty was pushed. Indiamike moderating team ..ich bin ein oneliner

Feb 13th, 2008, 16:51	#37
shashank.aggarwal Mr. Tagless Join Date: May 2007 Location: ~ Dilli ~ Posts: 4,759	Okay..lets stop promoting industries...and start putting the money where the experts will love it !! Suggestions please - Education, Healthcare ? let them come... __________________ Travelogue - Around India Random Reviews

Feb 13th, 2008, 20:05	#39
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 24,648	Rangers, sorry, but you don't have a clue. Nothing personal; India doesn't have a clue. In the face of the American 'world trade' profiteering, grasping colonialisation drive, India is putty. The assertion that this time India knows how to deal is part of the seduction process. Have some heroin, you can handle it. On the government/big business thing, it is nothing short of flabbergasting! BB: Hey, Govt, we want to manufacture a new car! Govt: Oh! That's great! Would you like some land to do it on? BB: That'd be nice. Govt: Right! How about this bit? It's got some farmers living on it, but leave that to us. BB: OK, thanks, Carry on. Just one thing... Govt: Yes? BB: we wouldn't want you to take any taxes out of the vast profit that we intend to make. You will have to come up with a formula so that we don't pay anyway. Govt: Sez You! BB: What? Oh! Special Economic Zone? Now you're talking! Errr... Why, for god's sake? Baksheesh, I suppose __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

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Feb 13th, 2008, 12:41	#33
vargoje3 Fishing Master Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 177	Just a thought but could it be that the what we refer to the "baby boomers" here in the US are all retiring and looking for a nice tropical climate to settle down in?

Feb 13th, 2008, 13:39	#35
rangers Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: India Posts: 450	Its true that MNC are garlanded on investment Here. but we have working EXPRIENCE of more 200 Years. This time we know how to tilt the deal. But am sure BASUDEVA KUTUMBA KUM ( universe is a family)is understood here.

Feb 13th, 2008, 17:11	#38
iwanttogoback is sorry Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: perth Posts: 1,512	sanitation, especially toilets. and not for the convenience of tourists like me, but for the improved health and all that flows from that for the average indian without proper sanitation.

Feb 13th, 2008, 21:19	#42
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 24,648	Captain: Your entire argument is utterly invalidated by an incorrect apostrophe. Pity, but there it is. Nothing we can do about it now.

Feb 13th, 2008, 22:02	#43
capt_mahajan (in charge of navel affairs) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 9,050	Why? It's an apostrophe, not a catastrophe!

Feb 13th, 2008, 23:12	#45
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 24,648	Well, I never claimed to be getting my facts right --- but I thought it was the site on which the Tata Nano is intended to be manufactured. Corrections welcome. Captain: you just do not appreciate the importance of correct apostrophe usage, and I'm afraid there's nothing more to be said. A little more seriously, Let's make hay while our sons shine ...Brilliant

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