Areh yar, listen to me.

Britbat

I've been reading with interest the "Difficulties
understanding Indian accents" thread. Indian friends
here for the most part don't have strong accents,
though I do know a couple of people not perhaps as well
educated or who are more recent arrivals. Their accents
are very "Indian", sure, but I've noticed that they do
take on local vernacular pretty quickly, adding a flavour
of India.

As I intend to move to India when I retire (Aug this year),
I wondered what IndiaMikers thought of my idea - to set up as
an English teacher, not so much to teach grammar, rather to
instruct in English elocution, perhaps iron out those strong
Indian intonations. Not as a business opportunity for me but
as a contribution from an affluent (relatively) Brit. I would
run it as a small business, sure, but with my main intention
to add to local cultural opportunities.

I have taught EFL, but as I say, the underlying dynamic of
what I propose is day to day English elocution.

shashank.aggarwal

There is no perfect English in India...

to cut a long story short..I don't think that your Idea would make much sense unless it is done on a larger scale..

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machadinha

Hm. I was thinking on the contrary that as far as I know there is a market for such positions to instruct e.g. callcenter workers and so on. I'm quite sure of it in fact.

A thing you might run into is those positions are already taken up quite adequately by local instructors. But as such, I don't think the idea is very out of the ordinary, no.

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shashank.aggarwal

I agree..however its not possible to cater to people in corporate sector or those who are looking to enter corporate sector without an elaborate infrastructure...

a person can get a job in one of those institutes..however to start one one would need considerable resources...

Nick-H

It is, I believe, still possible to walk into some of the smaller firms and get a job as a language trainer on the basis that you speak it and have some experience teaching it to those for whom it is a second language.

The bigger companies require very much more qualification and accreditation and, I'm afraid, it's American English that commands a premium these days

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machadinha

Yes, I think you're absolutely right. Also agree with Nick re: what brand of English to instruct in precisely. I met a nice British woman last night, struck me again how that accent and esp. when rapidly spoken doesn't go so easily with me. More of the Americanese variety myself, and I agree the international calling business might work along the same lines.

Also how diplomas and stuff will come into play these days for anything serious, but then OP mentioned he does have an EFL qualification, which should be worth something.

Britbat

I would agree that there is no perfect spoken English
in India, but Indian novelists have written some of the
most beautiful English prose ever published (IMO). Note,
though, that I didn't mention perfection, merely suggested
the possibility of correction.

Language teaching on a larger scale is well established.
I'm interested in the opposite extreme, and in the spoken
word rather than language teaching itself, which, let's
face it, in India is at a higher standard than that taught
in U.K. schools. Certainly I have met science graduates
here who are little more than semiliterate regurgitators
of subject specific facts.

Local instructors would perpetuate spoken anomalies, surely.
My point is that a Brit in touch with the U.K. (I'll be
going back regularly) might add a vernacular sensibility to
the language skill of just such people. Indeed it was call
centre workers I had in mind.

I'm not interested in a job. I thought I might add value
to individual language skills in small classes. Perhaps
the word seminar rather than class . . ..

I'm not interested in a job. My only qualifications are a
History B.A. Hons, out of date EFL certificate, forty years
in business, and regular publication. I also speak plain
English with what might be called a London accent laced with
transatlantic overtones. American English (AE) is English
that has spelling differences (you will all be familiar with them)
and pronunciation differences. AE has a shorter more
front vowel than SBE. The O sound is pronounced Ä, etc. etc.
Easily assimilated in elocution teaching.

I would offer to teach Indian English speakers a Universal
English. The Indian accent is quite charming, but it can
confuse listeners whose experience of language is confined
to vernacular speech. I have never had any difficulty in
understanding, say, Capital One's callcentre staff, but I
have heard of numerous complaints from readers of the yellow
press.

machadinha

Not necessarily, that's what I was gently trying to bring to you. All I hear is you may find yourself well outclassed in the field. Not very surprising, really. Well-educated Indians will be well able to handle this themselves, or to take on professional tutors of whatever nationality for it, most likely their own.

I also think frankly callcenter employees won't have much need for a well-meaning volunteer. I'm not trying to be blunt about it, it's just the way it is. The business is far more professional than that, as far as I know. I much appreciate your intentions; I guess doing something like that for a local school (or possibly even university or academy) of whatever grade or so would be very much possible.

Britbat

I appreciate you leading me gently to your opinion, of
course. Which, it appears, is that the status quo, poorly
spoken English in an international market, is good enough
for you (for India). It is precisely those (relatively) well
-educated Indians that I have in mind. I'm a well-educated
Brit with added value. I have had a long career writing and
speaking English. I could pass on my experience to anyone
who might want to sharpen their sword.


I admire the abandon with which you venture into misplaced
condescension. A professional business has amongst its drones
more enterprising professionals with bigger ideas than yours.
You also naively assume that I would provide my expertise and
experience for free. Perhaps you should examine the meaning
of the word "business".

Nick-H

You are making a basic mistake.

"Well-educated" Indians will have been educated in "English-medium" schools throughout their education. They will not speak English poorly, they will speak it as well as you do. You might find it an interesting and revealing excercise to look through the posts on this board and try to determine, without looking at names, which are made by native and resident Indians.

The training that call-centre staff get is of a different order: it is to make the person on that phone believe that they are speaking to someone in USA, or in UK. It is a fine honing of accent and idiom: all the basics are there already, or the person wouldn't have got past the door into the interview room.

karuna

[ETA: As an illustration of Nick's post above] Britbat not sure if you caught the "Indian School" series on the Beeb last year. Everybody in it, teachers and pupils, spoke perfect English that's completely understandable. There's part of it (about IT education and call centres) here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9E6M4mhx4zU

To be honest I'm confused. You say you're not interested in a job, but then say it wouldn't be for free and is related to "business". Maybe I'm dim but I don't get it.

machadinha

Britbat, I am not Indian but come from a commercial languages background (among some other things). That's my last word on it. You are free to pursue your wishes as you like. Let us know how you fare, it will be helpful to others.

Britbat

> Oh? You're going to tell me how, I see below.

> I know that. It's a given. I have Indian friends across the professional spectrum.

> They will speak it as well as they do. I speak English as well as I do. The twain will meet without much difficulty. You seem to have the idea that I'm suggesting well-educated Indians are inferior to me, a well educated Brit. I'm not. I'm saying that they speak a distinctly accented English that is taught to them by Indian teachers who speak a distinctly accented English. The cycle is perpetuated. You also seem to have the idea that I'm suggesting teaching grammar. I'm not. Elocution is where (part of) the solution lies in international business exchanges.

> I look through posts often. I can tell which posts are made
by Indian educated Indians simply by observing the peculiar nuances that are present in both text and speech. I would not insult Indians in these forums by presuming to make a general critical analysis. There is an Indian in this very thread whose prose is unmistakably Indian. There is an Englishman in this thread whose prose is unmistakably less well-educated than many well-educated Indians here.

> Oh, please. It's precisely because nobody with the least intelligence believes that the callcentre operative is in the USA or the UK that references to local flora and fauna, weather
etc. are transparently farcical. I was at a seminar a few months ago where the concensus opinion was that U.K. businesses had made a big mistake by promoting that false picture.

> With respect, that's bollocks. I understand your championing the Indian cause, but let me tell you that while there might be fine honing of accent and idiom, it is provided in the main by Indians in India with minimal or no experience of day to day intercourse with Western English speakers.

crvlvr

I have to agree with evry single post that Nick-H has made on this thread.

And want to add,

Indians, like the americans, typically won't really care to change their accent because a small number of people cannot understand them. The only Indians who do try to change their accent, do so if their jobs depended on them.

machadinha

<cross-posted with Crv>

Yet you apparently mistook me to be an Indian. I'm sorry, I think you don't have the slightest idea what you're up against.

But, er, good luck and all that. Don't let us put you off by any means. Again, be sure to report how it worked out.