American versus Indian school system

namaste_cat

I came across an interesting article today in the Wall Street Journal:
A Tale of Two School Systems
I'm going to be watching the comments section of the article because so far they are quite fascinating.

I have no experience teaching in the Indian school system, but I did go to pvt English-medium school there. In the U.S. to be perfectly honest, the reason I accepted a job as a teacher and Asst Principal at a rather expensive private school is so my 2 kids could attend for free.

In reading the threads on IM, I've been in sticker shock learning how high the tuition is at a lot of Indian private schools, esp the International ones. My school's tuition is around $12,000/yr/child, and that's about mid-range. So suffice it to say, if I didn't work there my kids wouldn't be attending this school.

Anyway, while I don't agree w/ everything S. Mitra Kalita says in her article, I too think there are ways both systems can be improved by learning from each other. I'm on the curriculum committee and live and breathe this stuff but at the end of the day, my perspective is most colored by my own experience and that of being a parent w/ kids in school.

I've decided I'm not going to even think about moving back to India until my kids are done with school. I do sometimes wonder if it would have been better for them to have experienced the Indian school system....

AwayFromHome

Hi n_c,

Thanks for posting the link - very interesting.

My kids (7 and 9) are just getting used to the Indian school system, even though it is an international school. And there are many differences in the ambience, the way teachers here expect respect, the level of science and math etc. etc.

But, so far they have adjusted well.

I am a geek (IIT Roorkee), who has utter faith in the Science/Math path.
Not so much, for Mrs. AWH.

So, we're trying to mix it up, and surprisingly it's not so difficult to do in Gurgaon.

Let's see - there's plenty of time to make changes if we have to.

Sharmscharms

Thanks, namaste_cat for posting that article.

I guess right now we are at the grass is always greener on the other side way of thinking. We have five children. My husband got to experience both U.S. and India systems as he came here when he was 13.

Teaching kids to think outside the box is great, but in the process, other traits are compromised such as respect for parents and teachers.

Public schools are at the mercy of the surrounding population in regards to spending and educational opportunities. The higher income the community is, the better the school will be. This trend only gets worse when families try to move to be within the borders of the best school districts. Those families who are unable to move are left to attend (mostly city) schools that are ridden with violence, low test scores and apathy--both on the part of teachers and parents.

I think in the U.S., those parents who are really concerned about their children's education need to do their own amount of "jockeying"--as the author of the article puts it--to ensure that their children get the best education possible. This might include feeling obligated to homeschool, afterschool, get expensive tutoring, get loans for their children to attend a good private school(if they can't afford the outrageous tuitions on their own), and the list goes on.

I appreciate that article because it lists the negatives of both systems, but the negatives of the U.S. system are what we've lived through so far. We'll get our chance to see the other side soon. I'll be sure to keep an open mind.

namaste_cat

You both made such excellent points Definitely singing my song as Mr N-Cat and I are both math and science geeks w/ PhDs.

Alas, the pay is so low in teaching college at least with my Math PhD that I decided for my kids' sake, made more sense for me to take advantage of the $25K+ tuition benefit at this school.

I worked in the public schools for a while till I could move into private. There is fortunately much more respect here for teachers and admin compared to public (and I was at a pretty rich naighborhood's public school). Most of the students are remarkably well-behaved. My Principal and I are the only 2 Indians here pretty much, and she's fantastic - really sets the proper tone. So I'm very pleased. Our quality standards are very high too, or I would have had trouble working here.

All that said, alas there is no getting away from the "I hate math/science/..." mentality among students. What annoys me is that it is acceptable to say these things. I have students come to my office and pout asking 'Do I really have to be in math class? Can't I opt out?"

I have 3 yrs left before my younger one is done w/ High School. Son will be out in a yr. I'm so glad your kids are adjusting well to school in India, AFH

And best to you and yours Sharmscharms. BTW, I saw your other post in a thread asking if you should make arrangements for your children sooner rather than later. I'd vote for sooner, esp after reading that article in WSJ. Here at my school as she also mentioned in her article, things are very streamlined, and totally on the up-and-up. We have 500 slots of which 492 are filled for the Fall. Forget bribery, we're not allowed to accept anything from a student, period. No apples, chocolates, nothing.

Sharmscharms

Just found this article. What is your opinion on it? It doesn't surprise me to read about this type of thing. I believe that the teacher's unions are very strong in here in the U.S. and education in the public school system suffers for it.

I know that the Indian system is also plagued with many problems. What are teachers like in Indian schools? Any experiences to share?

AwayFromHome

Thanks, n_c.

What is odd is the things they don't want to do. Like dancing, play acting etc. One would have thought that would come naturally - but no!
Maybe the language barrier, or a subtle cultural one?
God knows, but I'm sure they'll get over it.

namaste_cat

I bet they will Makes sense they're maybe a bit intimidated right now w/ the cultural differences, subtle though they may be, huh. I bet mine would have been too at that age, maybe even now. They are so different and subdued when they visit India. Would have been interesting to see them in an Indian school...
Oh my goodness, that's just disgusting! I was getting so mad reading it I was a college prof but the $ was so bad, can you believe I made more as a public school teacher where I needn't have bothered w/ a PhD?! Once I moved to pvt school, my pay went way down, and no Union (which believe me, I do not miss one bit!).
I've visited schools in India just out of curiosity since I got into the profession here, and it sure is different. Some good, some maybe not so good just like any other place. All in all, the teachers while not paid as well as in the US comparatively speaking, seemed to me quite dedicated and serious. They don't put up w/ much crap, which can be a good thing. In India, you're not gonna see the craziness in the article you linked, that's for sure.

I'm assuming your kids will be in pvt school. At my pvt school here, teachers take quite an interest in kids, and are involved with after-school activities too. Students walk into my office with no intimidation or fear, which is cool w/ me. In India, w/ teachers it's strictly school time and that's it, no more interaction. And I don't think they are as informal w/ their principal there as my kids are w/ me & my boss. Maybe things are different now, I don't know.

AwayFromHome

Yes, intimidated just about describes it - though they are very confident and assertive kids. I think it's the language barrier and the subtle cultural differences. None of the other kids (even though it is an international school) have seen the same TV shows, speak the same lingo or even relate to the humor of my kids. And vice-versa, of course.
It will take a while, I reckon - all part of the learnng experience. I went through it myself, a few decades ago.
Meanwhile, the kids and the Mrs. are in the US for a few weeks, and having a blast.

What will that do to their adjustment to India (only having been here for a few months)? Reverting to the 'old' settings may be detrimental to their progress here. Let's see!

Sharmscharms

AFH, my kids will be going through the same thing in another few weeks. We have never been to India before and I know the kids will have a lot of adjusting to do, especially since they've been spoiled by the U.S. public school system. One good thing about kids, though, is that they are quicker to adjust and learn things than we do. I know it'll be tough for them at first, but once they adjust to the situation, they'll be fine.

rahulcal

I am not too sure if I am qualified enough to comment here (am a bachelor)-this is strictly from the experieneces of my friends/classmates when I was growing up. At least two were from US and UK each and transplanted into India at the age of 10-12
(all PIOS/NRI kids).

This was in a small town called Patna but none of them seemed to be worse for wear - remember this was 80's India when the gap was even larger between the social millieus. Yes some had their basketball or football fixations which they took time to lose and "convert" to cricket but that's about all the hassle they faced - perhaps those were simpler times.


All of them went right back after school and I believe did quite well for themselves .

As a student in UK I found the studies really really easy after having made it through the grind of the Indian schools. Afterall once you have competed with a billion others , anything else has got to be easy right !!!

vegan

I am a graduate of Indian Institute of Technology (IIT Bombay) that is oft mentioned in the US media as paragon of academic excellence. On my personal web site I have articles highly critical of IIT system and Indian education system in general when compared to that of the USA where I did my graduate studies. I don't want to be seen as spamming and hence am not linking to them but if you send me a message I will send you a link.

On second thought it might not be that revelant to this thread since I discuss mainly differences in undergraduate and graduate university education and not the high school education.

namaste_cat

Sharmscharms - has school started there yet? Just curious how your kids are getting on in their indian schools This is "back to school" weekend in the States, we're gearing up for tomorrow.

Hope AFH's kids are also settling in well?

rahulcal - we haven't had too many expats at my school, but every time someone moves from another country, they seem to have no trouble in terms of academics. Once in a while they struggle with the way things are taught and with learning assessment e.g. the type of testing, also in extracurricular activities but it all gets sorted out quickly because Americans are so welcoming and friendly.

vegan - my brothers are both IIT grads and got their Masters and PhDs in the States. My undergrad is in Math (from an Indian college), w/ Masters and PhD from UC Berkeley. Please feel free to PM me your link because it sounds interesting. I used to be a tenured prof but for various reasons (mostly financial) moved to the school system.
With regard to K-12, I'm not sure it's quite as clear-cut in terms of India vs US as I can see pluses and minuses for both systems.

edwardseco

Had a colleague who sent two children back to India for boarding school given the low standards & omnipresent temptations in the US schools. The children adapted but with the side effect that they don't like to return to their "home" village in India with its weaker amenities..

AwayFromHome

Thanks for asking!

Yes, we had a Parent Teacher Conference this last Saturday.

My little girl - A+s in every subject.
My boy - A+s, a few A's and one B.

Very proud of both of them.

Ms Princess W

We've been here (Kashmir) for 5 months and the kids are pretty much bouncing off the walls waiting for school to start. When we got here in March, we began the process for my youngest (4th grade US) but the school we selected just wasn't where we thought he'd be comfortable. My elder son was going to be spending a good portion of the first few months in Ladakh with my husband so we decided to wait for his admission. They got back and we tried again with a couple of other private schools. Come to find out we can't do a thing with admission until sometime in September, because the school year starts in October. Ugh.

We did hire a tutor for my younger son because while he's way above average (according to the US) in reading, his handwriting leaves something to be desired & he struggles a bit in math. The tutor only had him doing copy work which bored him silly but his handwriting did improve.

Yesterday we met with the head of an English Medium school that I think will suit the boys well. It was interesting that she asked me about their grasp on the English language, since she knew we are from the US LOL...but then I realized what she meant - English here IS different. I guess it could be called Queen's English or British English or somesuch, but I assured her that my sons do recognize the difference. I do hope though that if the word "airplane" is a spelling word and my kid spells it as such and not "aeroplane" it won't be a huge thing : /

Anyway, I believe we'll start the admission process next month for October's start.