Kashmiris?

KatrinaKaif · Jan 2nd, 2007, 00:03

*CONFUSED*

I wouldn't call myself naive by any means, but I am very aware that on this subject I am incredibly naive. Some of the things I find confusing may be blindingly obvious to you, so please read this thread with an open mind and help me to mature as a new traveller!

On my two month trip in India, I found myself to be suckered in by nearly all the kashmiris I met in many places I visited.
For one, I really enjoyed their company. It sounds like a huge generalisation but I honestly got on with the Kashmiris better than alot of the other locals.
I think my main problem is that I'm a sucker for soulful brown eyes, a nice smile, a laid back personality and a good sense of humour, which seemed to be the trait of alot of the kashmiris I met!

Can someone tell me what they think please- are the majority of these people just, for want of a better word, trained to make you feel comfortable and at home so eventually you will go to Kashmir and make money for their families or so you will buy from them?

I always try to see the good in people aswell which skewed my perception.

I'm asking this because it's incredibly confusing for me to imagine the great times I had with these people to be an illusion. The emotional side of my brain always told me that these people truly seemed to have a good heart, but the logical side told me that there was an underlying reality that I could never really get to grips with, and, at the end of the day, I was just the rich white girl.

I would really appreciate just an opinion. I'd like to point out that I didn't actually buy anything off anyone I made friends with.
Now I'm back home it seems to me that alot of the India I saw was an illusion, but the kashmiri question is the biggest for me, because I felt as if i belonged in the loving environment they seemed to create, and I saw the love with which they shared with eachother. I connected very much with alot of them. (or so I thought).
I know that at the end of the day, people are people, but I found the similarities in all Kashmiris scarily abundant, so I figure they do have the same traits.

I would like to hear people (especially women)'s experiences because I'm rather afraid next time I go to India I will end up marrying one of them and then find out the grisly truth!!

Forgive me for a rather immature post, but there will always be that romantic part of me that wishes things were straight forward and it wasn't all smoke and mirrors in that damn country.

SANJAY_DEL · Jan 2nd, 2007, 00:15

Kashmiris are mostly well educated and worldly wise. Their marketing skills are good. Plus the aura and romanticism of being displaced from a war zone and victims of terror...

PeakXV · Jan 2nd, 2007, 00:59

Kashmiris are very kind & intelligent people - easy to spot as there sharp facial(from Iranian roots) features one can spot a mile away.

Made alot of good Kashmiri friends when I was a greenhorn buyer/shopper - as they were getting "their price" which often resulted in an after "gift" of silk scarfs, paper mache, & dinners as a belated thanks for shafting me!

i.e. how to know when you've paid toooooo much.

Nowadays I higgle like Scrooge during a depression with the happy valley boys and the only "free" thing I get is a gratus & hurried escort to the showroom door!

anar · Jan 2nd, 2007, 01:04

in my experience with kashmiris (and i have had my fair share), i have found that the ones who are involved in working with tourists are the ones you have to watch out for. i accept this is a sweeping generalisation but i can only go by my experiences. the ones who are 'untainted' (ie who don't seek to gain financially by making your acquaintance, at least not directly) are some of the nicest people i have ever met - the most hospitable, the kindest.

for example, i spent time with the family of a kashmiri friend in june last year - and although the friend seems genuine enough, i felt more at ease with his mother and sisters (who have nothing to do with business/selling, etc) - their care and concern for me was the 'real thing', they lacked guile, i felt this. i could reciprocate the love they showed me unreservedly. whereas with him, there was often that niggling question: is his friendship to do with business or is it free from those concerns? (i am not buying anything from him directly - not enough to warrant suspicion about his motives - but i am in a position to bring business his way, which i suppose ends up amounting to the same thing). it didn't matter so much because i was there on holiday and was grateful to have his help and time.

but if you add 'love' and perceived riches to the quotient, that would just make things too maddeningly complicated - in my case, that has never been the case (fortunately, i may add) but i can see the attraction alright (kashmiris can be incredibly good looking and dripping with honeyed charm)! however, from close contact with kashmiri men, i know they definitely lack 'respect' for western women in general (i know, another generalisation, but there you go, and this may be true of most indian men, not just kashmiris). western women are good for fooling around with, having sex with, etc but to expect anything more solid and lasting from a kashmiri man (of the kind i have pointed out) would be naive and lead inevitably to heartbreak.

i would say just one word to you before you go falling in love with a kashmiri: beware!

KatrinaKaif · Jan 2nd, 2007, 03:26

thanks for everyone's input. its true that they are dripping with charm! I've never seen such perfect teeth or gorgeous eyes as on a Kashmiri. I met one 45-ish lady in a travel agents who was married to a Kashmiri she met in dharamsala. We were discussing the Kashmiri's gorgeous looks and how they were simply magnetic. Her husband was sitting right next to her as she told me how they were dangerous and never to fall in love with one!
Aside from the sexual attraction, I'm glad afew people have mentioned how they are naturally charming. I dont think I'll ever know what they're really after though.

machadinha · Jan 2nd, 2007, 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by KatrinaKaif

I wouldn't call myself naive by any means

...

I've never seen such perfect teeth or gorgeous eyes as on a Kashmiri.

Right. Any more stereotypes you feel like getting into today?

davey · Jan 2nd, 2007, 04:40

i was told that if you enter a KAshmiris store you wont come out without buying something, its true they are great sales people and very quick at sensing a sale or loss of one

cyberhippie · Jan 2nd, 2007, 04:47

I think from a tourist point of view an endearing factor about Kashmiris is their rather good command of English, a strange quirk this, I wonder why that is!!
Someone should tell them that Fools and Horses finished some time back though!!

Quote:

how to know when you've paid toooooo much.

When you've been in a kashmiri shop

mangrove · Jan 2nd, 2007, 05:22

Very strange! I've never heard anything like this. Must have been quite the experience to make such a mark on you KatrinaKaif...

sunny · Jan 2nd, 2007, 21:11

Makes me remember one experience. Our train was delayed by some 14hours coz of an accident on the track and we had to spend the whole night in the train at a loney village. There were some kaskmiri boys in my cabin. They going to Hyderabad to take part in the industrial exhibition. We became friends and i offerred them my sanwiches which they ate. Later on when i tried the sandwiches I found that the egg in them had got spoilt. I asked them why they ate it when it has spoilt.
The answer i received which really touched me was
"Aapne itne pyaar our mohabbat se hume khana diya, to humne kha liya"
Translated - u offerred the food with so much affection that we it did not matter that it was spoilt-so we ate it.
Moral Kasmiris r very emotional people. They were pro pakistan and anti India. We argued a lot abt it & disagreed on this, but still became fast friends

anandi · Jan 2nd, 2007, 21:40

After going to India for the past 10 years I have had my fair share of Kashmiri encounters... both for business and friendship.
Their charm and good looks are captivating, yes... I enjoy their company and have felt the love and care that they have extended to me over the years. I consider some of them my great friends...and the ones that I consider good friends are not getting anything from me, for example, money or sex. It is just friendship. On the occasions that I have dealt in business with them and trusted them with large amounts of money I have thankfully NEVER been cheated or lied to. This is not to say that all Kashmiris are honest. I have just been lucky. There is an expression in India that goes like this... "all 5 fingers are not the same". That goes for Kashmiris too. They can be the most charming, beautiful, caring, honest guys and at the same time you can find those that are complete liars and horrible cheaters that will do anything to get what they want. Have your fun, but think about the long term with them. (you mentioned marriage) I know many white girls who have married Kashmiri men and some have turned out to be great... others, a disaster. You have to have your antennae up and listen to your gut feeling. Be realistic. Good luck and have fun.

crvlvr · Jan 2nd, 2007, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandi

AI know many white girls who have married Kashmiri men and some have turned out to be great... others, a disaster. You have to have your antennae up and listen to your gut feeling. Be realistic. Good luck and have fun.

I wonder why the kashmiri men won't prefer to marry their own? I hear that the Kashmiri women are beautiful.

anar · Jan 2nd, 2007, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by crvlvr

I wonder why the kashmiri men won't prefer to marry their own? I hear that the Kashmiri women are beautiful.

they do end up marrying kashmiri women, but after they have had their fun and games with non-kashmiris (and in one instance of a wealthy and young kashmiri businessman, despite being married to a kashmiri woman, the man continues to have his extra-marital affairs with white women - to them he pretends he is single).

but as anandi says, 'not all five fingers are the same'!

KatrinaKaif · Jan 3rd, 2007, 02:13

I would just like to point out that my comment about marriage was tongue in cheek! I've never been romantically involved with a Kashmiri.

dreamer · Jan 3rd, 2007, 15:36

Ratehr than five fingers being different I have found it to be more like 2 hands... From my experience Kashmiris are either VERY kind, VERY generous, VERY hospitable and make you feel like the most special person in the world (and I mean women and families too, not just the guys) Or they are total rip off merchants. I have been ripped off and groped in Srinagar more than anywhwere in India

, equally I have been more loved and looked after there too.

It is probably true that anyone, and especially a Kashmiri who is in the tourist trade is more likely to sweet talk you and cheat you that anyone else..As the saying goes they are the best shopkeepers within a nation of shopkeepers..

You also have to remember that their life is perhaps harder than elsewhere in India becauase of the ongoing conflict and therefore lack of tourists.

They are generally better educated and literate than elsewhere in India and I suppose they use their marketing skills and good looks and charms on the ladies ( and guys) to enhance their business... can't blame them I guess.

Jan 2nd, 2007, 00:03	#1
KatrinaKaif missing the sun Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: England Posts: 6	Kashmiris? CONFUSED I wouldn't call myself naive by any means, but I am very aware that on this subject I am incredibly naive. Some of the things I find confusing may be blindingly obvious to you, so please read this thread with an open mind and help me to mature as a new traveller! On my two month trip in India, I found myself to be suckered in by nearly all the kashmiris I met in many places I visited. For one, I really enjoyed their company. It sounds like a huge generalisation but I honestly got on with the Kashmiris better than alot of the other locals. I think my main problem is that I'm a sucker for soulful brown eyes, a nice smile, a laid back personality and a good sense of humour, which seemed to be the trait of alot of the kashmiris I met! Can someone tell me what they think please- are the majority of these people just, for want of a better word, trained to make you feel comfortable and at home so eventually you will go to Kashmir and make money for their families or so you will buy from them? I always try to see the good in people aswell which skewed my perception. I'm asking this because it's incredibly confusing for me to imagine the great times I had with these people to be an illusion. The emotional side of my brain always told me that these people truly seemed to have a good heart, but the logical side told me that there was an underlying reality that I could never really get to grips with, and, at the end of the day, I was just the rich white girl. I would really appreciate just an opinion. I'd like to point out that I didn't actually buy anything off anyone I made friends with. Now I'm back home it seems to me that alot of the India I saw was an illusion, but the kashmiri question is the biggest for me, because I felt as if i belonged in the loving environment they seemed to create, and I saw the love with which they shared with eachother. I connected very much with alot of them. (or so I thought). I know that at the end of the day, people are people, but I found the similarities in all Kashmiris scarily abundant, so I figure they do have the same traits. I would like to hear people (especially women)'s experiences because I'm rather afraid next time I go to India I will end up marrying one of them and then find out the grisly truth!! Forgive me for a rather immature post, but there will always be that romantic part of me that wishes things were straight forward and it wasn't all smoke and mirrors in that damn country. Last edited by machadinha : Jan 3rd, 2007 at 17:04. Reason: moved to "happens only in india" forum

Jan 2nd, 2007, 00:59	#3
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 3,978	Kashmiris are very kind & intelligent people - easy to spot as there sharp facial(from Iranian roots) features one can spot a mile away. Made alot of good Kashmiri friends when I was a greenhorn buyer/shopper - as they were getting "their price" which often resulted in an after "gift" of silk scarfs, paper mache, & dinners as a belated thanks for shafting me! i.e. how to know when you've paid toooooo much. Nowadays I higgle like Scrooge during a depression with the happy valley boys and the only "free" thing I get is a gratus & hurried escort to the showroom door! __________________ We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started ...and know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions? Last edited by PeakXV : Jan 2nd, 2007 at 02:05.

Jan 3rd, 2007, 15:36	#15
dreamer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Southampton, U.K. Posts: 188	Ratehr than five fingers being different I have found it to be more like 2 hands... From my experience Kashmiris are either VERY kind, VERY generous, VERY hospitable and make you feel like the most special person in the world (and I mean women and families too, not just the guys) Or they are total rip off merchants. I have been ripped off and groped in Srinagar more than anywhwere in India , equally I have been more loved and looked after there too. It is probably true that anyone, and especially a Kashmiri who is in the tourist trade is more likely to sweet talk you and cheat you that anyone else..As the saying goes they are the best shopkeepers within a nation of shopkeepers.. You also have to remember that their life is perhaps harder than elsewhere in India becauase of the ongoing conflict and therefore lack of tourists. They are generally better educated and literate than elsewhere in India and I suppose they use their marketing skills and good looks and charms on the ladies ( and guys) to enhance their business... can't blame them I guess. __________________ Life is not about the moments that we take breath, rather the moments that take our breath away.

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Jan 2nd, 2007, 00:15	#2
SANJAY_DEL Account Closed Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW DELHI, INDIA Posts: 1,351	Kashmiris are mostly well educated and worldly wise. Their marketing skills are good. Plus the aura and romanticism of being displaced from a war zone and victims of terror...

Jan 2nd, 2007, 01:04	#4
anar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: India Posts: 395	in my experience with kashmiris (and i have had my fair share), i have found that the ones who are involved in working with tourists are the ones you have to watch out for. i accept this is a sweeping generalisation but i can only go by my experiences. the ones who are 'untainted' (ie who don't seek to gain financially by making your acquaintance, at least not directly) are some of the nicest people i have ever met - the most hospitable, the kindest. for example, i spent time with the family of a kashmiri friend in june last year - and although the friend seems genuine enough, i felt more at ease with his mother and sisters (who have nothing to do with business/selling, etc) - their care and concern for me was the 'real thing', they lacked guile, i felt this. i could reciprocate the love they showed me unreservedly. whereas with him, there was often that niggling question: is his friendship to do with business or is it free from those concerns? (i am not buying anything from him directly - not enough to warrant suspicion about his motives - but i am in a position to bring business his way, which i suppose ends up amounting to the same thing). it didn't matter so much because i was there on holiday and was grateful to have his help and time. but if you add 'love' and perceived riches to the quotient, that would just make things too maddeningly complicated - in my case, that has never been the case (fortunately, i may add) but i can see the attraction alright (kashmiris can be incredibly good looking and dripping with honeyed charm)! however, from close contact with kashmiri men, i know they definitely lack 'respect' for western women in general (i know, another generalisation, but there you go, and this may be true of most indian men, not just kashmiris). western women are good for fooling around with, having sex with, etc but to expect anything more solid and lasting from a kashmiri man (of the kind i have pointed out) would be naive and lead inevitably to heartbreak. i would say just one word to you before you go falling in love with a kashmiri: beware!

Jan 2nd, 2007, 03:26	#5
KatrinaKaif missing the sun Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: England Posts: 6	thanks for everyone's input. its true that they are dripping with charm! I've never seen such perfect teeth or gorgeous eyes as on a Kashmiri. I met one 45-ish lady in a travel agents who was married to a Kashmiri she met in dharamsala. We were discussing the Kashmiri's gorgeous looks and how they were simply magnetic. Her husband was sitting right next to her as she told me how they were dangerous and never to fall in love with one! Aside from the sexual attraction, I'm glad afew people have mentioned how they are naturally charming. I dont think I'll ever know what they're really after though.

Jan 2nd, 2007, 04:40	#7
davey Grumpy Old fart Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia (Buderim) Posts: 536	i was told that if you enter a KAshmiris store you wont come out without buying something, its true they are great sales people and very quick at sensing a sale or loss of one

Jan 2nd, 2007, 05:22	#9
mangrove Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 294	Very strange! I've never heard anything like this. Must have been quite the experience to make such a mark on you KatrinaKaif...

Jan 2nd, 2007, 21:11	#10
sunny Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 22	Makes me remember one experience. Our train was delayed by some 14hours coz of an accident on the track and we had to spend the whole night in the train at a loney village. There were some kaskmiri boys in my cabin. They going to Hyderabad to take part in the industrial exhibition. We became friends and i offerred them my sanwiches which they ate. Later on when i tried the sandwiches I found that the egg in them had got spoilt. I asked them why they ate it when it has spoilt. The answer i received which really touched me was "Aapne itne pyaar our mohabbat se hume khana diya, to humne kha liya" Translated - u offerred the food with so much affection that we it did not matter that it was spoilt-so we ate it. Moral Kasmiris r very emotional people. They were pro pakistan and anti India. We argued a lot abt it & disagreed on this, but still became fast friends

Jan 2nd, 2007, 21:40	#11
anandi Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: toronto Posts: 182	After going to India for the past 10 years I have had my fair share of Kashmiri encounters... both for business and friendship. Their charm and good looks are captivating, yes... I enjoy their company and have felt the love and care that they have extended to me over the years. I consider some of them my great friends...and the ones that I consider good friends are not getting anything from me, for example, money or sex. It is just friendship. On the occasions that I have dealt in business with them and trusted them with large amounts of money I have thankfully NEVER been cheated or lied to. This is not to say that all Kashmiris are honest. I have just been lucky. There is an expression in India that goes like this... "all 5 fingers are not the same". That goes for Kashmiris too. They can be the most charming, beautiful, caring, honest guys and at the same time you can find those that are complete liars and horrible cheaters that will do anything to get what they want. Have your fun, but think about the long term with them. (you mentioned marriage) I know many white girls who have married Kashmiri men and some have turned out to be great... others, a disaster. You have to have your antennae up and listen to your gut feeling. Be realistic. Good luck and have fun.

Jan 3rd, 2007, 02:13	#14
KatrinaKaif missing the sun Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: England Posts: 6	I would just like to point out that my comment about marriage was tongue in cheek! I've never been romantically involved with a Kashmiri.

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