fasting for husband and more

aghori

There are customs in India that I can't understand. I was told that girls are made to fast annually from 5 years old to get good husband, and when they married, they should spend a day a year with no even drinking water. And what I can't understand, and no one explains me , why it is one side only? Why men don't fast for their wives?
And another thing. Is the custom of not calling husband by name and telling him Ap instead of tum, still followed? Why married people suppose to tell Ap to each other, what seems as a form to address to people you little know?

Trying to understand Indian culture.

just_an_old_boy

Ah there we go again...different cultural frameworks.

Nobody forces. My wife does not fast. Never once. My family is orthodox in many matters, so your observation is not a generic one for many parts of India.

BTW, real reasons and facts. Men too fast. Fasting can be either due to spiritual reasons or to appease God for favours.

Women do it for long life and health of their husbands.

Indian usually address elders as Aap. And in traditional settings husbands are usually few years elders. This is the most logical reason, although various folklore exists.

steven_ber

Is there a religion on earth that treats women equally?

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aghori

OK, and did she keep that fast in childhood for having good husband?
My Guru told me that this tradition was set by rishis, but didn't explained why. Maybe I wouldn't like the answer.
So it is only she calls him Aap, not both ways, accordingly to the custom?

aghori

Shaktism gives her principal role, but it is just one branch of Hinduism.

icetea

aghori, it is better not to confuse old hindu teachings with life in modern India...What you (and your guru) are refering to might not be relevant at all for how things really happen nowadays. India is huge, varied, and is rapidly modernising its ways, especially in urban areas & big cities. There are traditional people (more so in rural areas or less educated classes) and less traditional people. Old customs are still present in everyday life, but in more subtle ways. Better not to take things ad literam.

Yes, in traditional Indian culture the woman is expected to "bow" before her husband; she will serve him, obey him and fast for him too at times. So is in christianity, btw! Question is, how many of these percepts are still followed today and in what manner? India is still a very traditional society, don't misunderstand me, but because more and more women start getting jobs, attitudes are changing.

And as steven_ber suggests, don't expect hinduism (or any other religion) to be "fair" to women. Moreover, you cannot judge such a different culture with western eyes/mindset, and certainly not in a black&white manner, or you'll not understand anything (or become revolted). If you go through the many older discussions on indiamike about various cultural aspects, you will perhaps understand the finer points.

As about women fasting specifically for their husband, I believe you are refering to the festival of Karva Chauth (?), observed in the North, when women fast during the day and break the fast in the evening by looking at the moon (and then the husband's face) through a sieve. It is in fact a very happy occasion for the entire family, there is nothing sad about this fasting

aghori

Ok. But I was in India last year during that annual fast, all women in the house of my hindi teacher were fasting. And I was told that 99% of women of India do fast this day. Ok, 99% might be exaggeration, but majority do fast, from what I was told by Indians.

icetea

Well I was trying to say that not everybody does it, and that things are changing. I think 99% is an exageration; this custom belongs to North India, mostly, and many 'modern' women will not even think of doing it. Some people are not so religious or traditional, just like elsewhere.

Even if many married women still do it, I anyway see nothing wrong in fasting, or fasting for someone you love and respect...even if that person does not do the exact same thing in return. It's a festival like many other festivals, with some old and perhaps outdated explanation behind it (the man was, traditionally, the bread-winner, so he deserved some extra respect for that ), but women still preserve it and celebrate the occasion in an "old-fashioned" way. And I think it is good that they do so...that's why people like India, afterall, because of all these interesting traditions that are still alive today.

As it has been said before, do not expect these customs to be "fair" to women, as we define fairness in the west. This is not at all a society based on a 50-50 mentality.

Prashant.M

99% definitely not so. Majority also I would say No. I come from South India and Karva Chauth is not observed here. In fact none of my relatives have ever fasted for a good husband (maybe that's why they are suffering now) jokes apart, they have fasted for spiritual reasons and its also considered to be good for health.

As to why only women do it. (Tongue-in-cheek) I guess its difficult to find a good man whereas its easy to find a good woman That's why you have to appease the Gods

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aghori

This is interesting, I didn't know that.
It is true. But maybe, it has some deep meaning behind it. Not just that all scriptures were written by men, who wanted to keep their wives under control. Through it might be the case also.

aghori

I like this explanation.

just_an_old_boy

icetea,

In Indian timeline, the less than desirable condition of the women is recent phenomenon. I'll assert again ... in Indian timeline.

Many are not aware, in the Vedic period, women Rishis contributed towards development of some of the fundamental tenets of Hinduism. They've come down to us in form of original narration as well as commentaries on the Upanishads.

It was the time when a bride from the nobility could handpick her groom from a line of suitors. Men actually had to prove their worth.

The widespread worship of Goddesses of Shakti is just a hint of the stellar status that women used to enjoy.

How many other religion have accorded that status to women?

It is unfair to comment on women's overall status in Hindu theology on basis of present condition.

just_an_old_boy

It is this kind of statements, devoid of facts, which make many
Indians cringe.

Please Google for Gargi, Lopmudra, Maitri etc.

aghori

I heard about that, and then the reason behind these customs even more interesting. As this fast Parvati had started, but that was a special case, as she had to attain Shiva. Maybe keeping this fast is to show devotion towards Shiva-ShivA also.
This is just an assumption.

icetea

If we are to talk about women's issues, fasting for one's husband is a small, cute, bening example. There are other customs, still more or less observed today in some regions, which are really worth the attention, like the treatment of widows (sati, or the restrictions, sometimes shunning, loss of right to property). Whether these customs are or aren't rooted in the scriptures, that is something up for debate, but unfortunately I am far from being knowledgeable enough for that.