I'm worried about Altitude Sickness / Disease in Kaza

summerrose88

Hi there, i am interested in seeing Dhankar, Ki, Kibber and Tabo - and i understand i have to be in Kaza. But i'm worried about altitude disease/sickness at such a high altitude like Kaza.

Can anyone explain or advise me about this please? Thanks!

Darmabum

Altitude affects us all in different ways; and even those used to high altitudes sometimes respond differently at different times. I've driven in one day from Lima to 16,000 feet and 'suffered' from, if suffer is the word, something like being drunk; woke up the next morning with a big headache. I've also flown in two hours from Chengdu to Lhasa and suffered not at all. A slow acclimation is usually considered best.

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summerrose88

If i drove from Shimla, to Sangla, then onto Kaza - do you think that's enough time, and i will acclimatize?

Are there hospitals around should someone require a medical emergency, between Shimla-Sangla-Kaza?

kmalik

You are right to worry and well advised to inform yourself about it. There are several threads in which Vistet has provided very valuable information. You may check for posts by him/her.

Also, simply goggling would get you enough pointers to good information. Try this link to high-altitude tutorial.

I highly recommend you discount the personal anecdotes, true as they might be, and rely on abundant scientific information that is out there.

summerrose88

oh thank you for understanding my concern and for the link, i will go through it thoroughly!

Darmabum

"discount personal anecdotes" . . . but then what is "abundant scientific information" but a compilation and statistical assessment of large numbers of personal/experiential anecdotes

machadinha

<cross-posted with Darmabum>

Yes, to add, in many of the mountaineering and appropriate state (sub-) forums here,* you'll find so-called "sticky" threads (threads "stuck" on top of a forum so they always remain there) on AMS, so have a look there as well.

* Notably the Ladakh one, I believe.

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kmalik

Indeed. However, sample size in personal anecdotes the OP is likely to find here is too small to have much scientific value.

More importantly, my comment was motivated by a tendency on macho but uninformed positions on this point taken by a rather large number of posters in earlier threads relating to AMS. If the simple majority of IM posters were to be believed, the AMS could simply be addressed by drinking more water. So, I was making that point in the context of compilation of past IM posts on this subject.

summerrose88

Thank you, i will check those out too.

From what i read, it seems that you have to ascend at no more than 5oo metres a day!

machadinha

I'm no specialist on it, and am nothing of a mountaineer or trekker; I think one crucial thing is the difference in altitude between your resting places. So if you slept at altitude X the first night, you can go up quite a bit the next day, but you should make sure you spend the next night at altitude Y (higher than the first night, but lower than your ascent that day).

Anyway, read those threads by all means, they should know much better than I. As noted and obviously, you'll probably have to separate the wheat from the chaff a bit in reading.

I don't know that area at all, nor how hard trekking or climbing (or even just simply traveling around if that's what you're doing) there might be; but since you are concerned about it, have you considered taking a guide? A good one should know the right procedures, recognize any symptoms, not push you over your limits nor allow you to do so yourself,* etc.

* A common and complicating symptom with AMS seems to be the sufferer may be reluctant to recognize any symptoms, and may get quite adamant about any suggestions to do something about the situation. This is obviously not very helpful, so having someone around you who if need be will drag you to a lower altitude by force or arrange help is a very good idea.

RWeHavingFunYet

Yes, not more than 500m upto an elevation of 3000m; From 3000m elevation, not more than 300m per day. I guess Kaza is at 4116m.

vistet

Think more 3600-ish. Coming from the Shimla end , Kaza is one of the places I worry least about , since the NH 22 gives you some very good options to acclimatize.

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vistet

Very good point , which can be put in a various degrees of diplomacy. My take on this is that denial is both a requisite and a symtom : getting in to dire straits involves at some stage ignoring what your body tells you , and after a while you are incapable of reading these signs even if you are willing.

Anyway, back to the problem : can you get altitude sickness in Kaza ? Yes. Avoiding it is easy , though , with a minimum of planning.

The first and most important factor is how many nights you spend between from two thousand and up to three thousand plus. More nights closer to three thousand is more effective , and usually around the third night you have an important physiological shift that allows you to breathe more. You seem pretty well covered here : I assume you have one night in Shimla (2200) , Sangla is ..2700 ? , and Tabo is at 3265. I have gone via Shimla , and up to this year I would have said it was almost impossible to get sick down in Tabo , but this time I was shown it was possible by a couple who had made the strategic mistake of staying in Rekong Peo , below 2000 , instead of Kalpa at 2800.

To put this in perspective I would say that after you have one night at 2000+ , and one near 3000 , the rest is more of a comfort than safety factor, as long as we are talking of Kaza. I´ve flown in twice to Leh , and met a number of people there who also have done it , and even though I see it as an instant aging experience ,and seen a few very pale guys, I can´t recall anyone being hospitalised. Thousands or tens of thousands fly in to lhasa , and I´ve heard of a few examples of people requiring hospital care.

I have no idea of what medical aid you can get in Kaza. My first reaction with anyone feeling unwell but upright would be to try to go down to Tabo , nealy four hundred meters lower.

The NH22 goes out from time to time , check for updates here , esp. voyager61, I try to post news updates here

machadinha

Thanks for the confirmation, Vistet, re: irresponsibility. I really know very little about this. (Have experienced something I can only conclude was AMS in hindsight once though, and I wasn't easy to deal with at that time, mildly put. Nor did I realize at all what was going on at the time, except for a general sense of not being well, nor that I needed to -- physically, as in lowering altitude -- get myself out of that situation asap. There was a strong urge to persist there and wait for "something to somehow get better" in fact. This was in any other sense rather mild btw, I mean I don't think I was in any physical danger. It was just really unpleasant, and again it must have been so to those having to deal with me at that time too.)

As I wrote it I was thinking isn't it basically to do with the brain getting too little oxygen? I was thinking of signs of stroke and so on, people can get very irrational, or aggressive indeed, when that happens. It's basically the cognitive functions getting screwed up I think.

Does that make sense? (And you are a nurse I believe, no?)

Rob_The_Pom

I think Vistet is absolutely spot on here.

I also firmly believe that you should not panic about altitude, just be sensible, and listen to your body as you ascend.

Cheers

Rob

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