Hindustan Tibet Road to Shipki La

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#16 Mar 28th, 2008, 15:17
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#16
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Originally Posted by AvidTrekker View Post
Oh well! There are NO secrets nowadays, are there?
.
.
NO Comments! Yes, satellite imageries do have just enough info for a trekker. I guess, one has to actually go on a trail to know what all one did not know.

Slight Digression here- I am thinking of doing Mangsu pass sometime soon. Any concrete info or suggestion, please? Don't know how to post a separate thread for Mangsu pass so posting it here. Apologies!
#17 Mar 30th, 2008, 04:34
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#17
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Originally Posted by AvidTrekker View Post The pics by Bhatto on flickr represent the Shipki La of old days. A regular Spiti Pass with cairns marking the Pass (and the border too, in this case). Between 1992 and 1998, one could actually walk up, coz there was a "roving patrol".

The latest pics by uttam show painted signs (aaaargh) and what not !!

Anyway, I have too much respect for the Army, so I won't try foolish things here. But who says you can't access friends of friends ??
What do you mean by "old days" - previous decade? Also Bhatto mentions he got an ILP from R/Pio, so then what's all this about having to go there hush-hush? It makes sense re ILP - of course the DM can issue, altho I can understand they won't do it easily. Then it's better to catch hold of someone in HP Govt. Is Deepak Sanan still in Shimla? Maybe you shud try to contact him.
Also I don't understand when Bhatto describes "last caravan preparing to cross Shipki La" or something like that. Isn't this pass closed?

Quote:
Anyway, had a look at Wikimapia... here...

The particular portion is hi-res. The Pass is marked. Road leading to Pass is shown. Village on other side is marked. Marker doesn't know it is Shipki village. Oh well! There are NO secrets nowadays, are there?
I see uttam and Andreas have been quite active in that map sector.

Gents,
1. I don't understand something. I've been to the sangam at Khab Bridge. Stood on the bridge and crossed over too. There is a sign-board giving directions to Ka and IIRC Namgya, some 20 km. The motor road is upstream the Spiti left bank. But in the wikimapia section, someone has marked Namgya upstream the Satluj. Is this correct? I note that this position corresponds approx with all my other maps. So am I just imagining that the Spiti road leads to Namgya? Also, the track going upstream Satluj left bank from the sangam to Khab village is definitely not driveable, so if Namgya is this way it certainly cannot be approached by car from the sangam. So, if Namgya is correctly marked how does one drive there - from Khab village (approach road going uphill 2 km before sangam)? Confused - can someone kindly enlighten? (Wud you believe someone's marked Nako upstream the Satluj ? Near Chuppan helipad).
2. Is Shipki La marked correctly? And where is Dogri, same side/area as Khab/Namgya? I noticed the dirt road somewhere near Shipki, and tried to follow the backtrack until it just disappeared into the low-res area, so can't figure where it originates. Also strange that the sangam itself is in low-res, what's to hide there?
3. When you drive upstream the Spiti on the a.m. road to Ka, how do you go back up to NH 22? Does the road just continue back up or is there a turn-off somewhere? And at which place does it rejoin the NH? Again the map sector west of Ka/Nako is in low res.
4. So one can go to Tashigang or drive close to it. Do Indians need an ILP for that? Where's the approach road?
#18 Mar 31st, 2008, 00:51
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#18

Question old days :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post What do you mean by "old days" - previous decade? Also Bhatto mentions he got an ILP from R/Pio, so then what's all this about having to go there hush-hush? It makes sense re ILP - of course the DM can issue, altho I can understand they won't do it easily. Then it's better to catch hold of someone in HP Govt. Is Deepak Sanan still in Shimla? Maybe you shud try to contact him.
The old days refers to 1992 to 1996 when even trekkers like me did not know that Kinnaur had "opened up" in 1992. Before 1992 everyone except Army ppl and locals were stopped at Wangtu.

Bhatto took an ILP. That's not an issue. Going up Namgia to Shipki La, that's the issue. (ordinarily one cannot.)

Deepak Sanan is now settled in New York, is what my Himalayan Club friends told me. I'd last written to him in Shimla (in 1998) and he'd replied to my route enquiry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post Also I don't understand when Bhatto describes "last caravan preparing to cross Shipki La" or something like that. Isn't this pass closed?
Locals are allowed to trade intra-border on a restricted basis. Mostly villagers of Namgia (India) and Shipki (Tibet). Nathu La just opened up to this restricted trade last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post Gents,
1. I don't understand something. I've been to the sangam at Khab Bridge. Stood on the bridge and crossed over too. There is a sign-board giving directions to Ka and IIRC Namgya, some 20 km. The motor road is upstream the Spiti left bank.
Ka is upstream the Spiti Left bank. The road to Namgia is straight from Khab on the Sutlej left bank. No crossing bridge.

Quote:
But in the wikimapia section, someone has marked Namgya upstream the Satluj. Is this correct? I
Yes.

Quote:
note that this position corresponds approx with all my other maps. So am I just imagining that the Spiti road leads to Namgya? Also, the track going upstream Satluj left bank from the sangam to Khab village is definitely not driveable, so if Namgya is this way it certainly cannot be approached by car from the sangam. So, if Namgya is correctly marked how does one drive there - from Khab village (approach road going uphill 2 km before sangam)?
Yes, correct, via Khab village.

Quote:
2. Is Shipki La marked correctly?
I believe so. But i'll have a look again, maybe tomorrow.

Quote:
3. When you drive upstream the Spiti on the a.m. road to Ka, how do you go back up to NH 22? Does the road just continue back up or is there a turn-off somewhere? And at which place does it rejoin the NH? Again the map sector west of Ka/Nako is in low res.
4. So one can go to Tashigang or drive close to it. Do Indians need an ILP for that? Where's the approach road?
Technically the HT road to Shipki was re-routed and re-named NH22. The old road ended at Shipki. I don't know where the new road nomenclature ends. Kaza???

For Tashigang.... Route is... Ka-Yangthang-Nako-Tashigang. Yangthang onwards it may be drivable by 4WD only

EDIT: Road to Nako is complete... read mantru's latest post.
The Universe is an ellipsoid?... or a Spheroid?? If the sphere smiles... it becomes an ellipse. This IS Creation.
Last edited by AvidTrekker; Mar 31st, 2008 at 00:57.. Reason: New info by mantru
#19 Mar 31st, 2008, 01:57
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#19
I missed post no.45 earlier.

Dogri (Namgia-dogri)is the pasture land of Namgiya villagers. It right above Namgia.

Road to Namgiya diverts before Khab bridge. Howevere, the foottrail starts right near the bridge. Needless to point out that it is shorter. It takes only 20 minutes to walk upto the village from the bridge.
Tashigang was to be connected by road from Namgiya side starting from Khab bridge.

It is only a trekking trail of about 4-5 hours from Nako to Tashigang. There is no plan on part of Govt. to construct road on this side. The trek from Namgiya side is shorter but steep. While it is gentle walk from Nako.

I believe NH-22 is till Kaurik. I am not sure though.

Dilliwala and Avid, i guess, you will like to see other photographs i took while in Nako, Tashigang, Somang, Namgiya and shipki-la. ( Of Course, some photos i have not uploaded for the reason i mentioned earlier)
Check this out to find many of the places we are talking about:-
http://picasaweb.google.com/uuttam/P...igangInKinnaur

BTW Tibetan side of Mountains here are those seen from Tashigang and not those seen from Shipki-la!
#20 Apr 1st, 2008, 00:03
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#20
Thank you gents, much appreciated.

I could almost kick myself for not realising I was that close to Namgya. Almost - in any case it was an either/or choice becos of a serious lack of time (idiot IOC tanker driver, but that's another story). Either drive to the sangam, or to Khab village and see whatever's visible from above. Had I known that Namgya was close by, I might have gone up instead. Oh well.....next time (have to do Spiti still, so that'll be the right time).

Quote:
Technically the HT road to Shipki was re-routed and re-named NH22. The old road ended at Shipki. I don't know where the new road nomenclature ends. Kaza???
Quote:
I believe NH-22 is till Kaurik. I am not sure though.
Same story again which creates so much confusion, innit?
I wish they wudn't call NH22 HTR, and just keep em distinct since a lot of the HTR still exists.
It's correct re Kaurik - the furthest point shown on any stone with NH22 painted on it is Kaurik (never mind that we can't go past Sumdo ), though I've read here and there that it goes to Kaza.
However, wud you believe that even the babus of the Dept of Highways don't know the correct route? Their website shows 22 as "Puh-Namgya-border near Shipki La" . Puh bend to Khab Bridge and Ka is definitely an SH.
Quote:
...the foottrail starts right near the bridge. Needless to point out that it is shorter. It takes only 20 minutes to walk upto the village from the bridge.
I would presume so - while we were at the bridge, the bus to Ka came by and some villagers got out and started walking up the trail. The motor road's length to the village was 2 km as I recall.

Quote:
Locals are allowed to trade intra-border on a restricted basis. Mostly villagers of Namgia (India) and Shipki (Tibet). Nathu La just opened up to this restricted trade last year.

Yes, and Babeinthewoods writes in her journal about her stay in Chhitkul last year, mentioning that the villagers there had restricted access to the traditional pass crossing beyond Nagasti (Yamrang La??). Didn't know Shipki route was open too.

Re Tashigang, still not clear whether Indians need an ILP, uttam. Did you approach from Nako or Namgya? Is it poss that one route requires ILP and the other not?
Also, from the satellite pics I wud have to agree that it's not poss to drive to Tashigang at all.

Still not clear where SH from Ka rejoins NH 22, gents. There wud have to be a bridge across the Spiti somewhere beyond Puh?
Last edited by Dilliwala; Apr 1st, 2008 at 23:10..
#21 Apr 1st, 2008, 00:37
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#21
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Originally Posted by uttam View Post I missed post no.45 earlier.

Dogri (Namgia-dogri)is the pasture land of Namgiya villagers. It right above Namgia.

Road to Namgiya diverts before Khab bridge. Howevere, the foottrail starts right near the bridge. Needless to point out that it is shorter. It takes only 20 minutes to walk upto the village from the bridge.
Tashigang was to be connected by road from Namgiya side starting from Khab bridge.

It is only a trekking trail of about 4-5 hours from Nako to Tashigang. There is no plan on part of Govt. to construct road on this side. The trek from Namgiya side is shorter but steep. While it is gentle walk from Nako.

I believe NH-22 is till Kaurik. I am not sure though.

Dilliwala and Avid, i guess, you will like to see other photographs i took while in Nako, Tashigang, Somang, Namgiya and shipki-la. ( Of Course, some photos i have not uploaded for the reason i mentioned earlier)
Check this out to find many of the places we are talking about:-
http://picasaweb.google.com/uuttam/P...igangInKinnaur

BTW Tibetan side of Mountains here are those seen from Tashigang and not those seen from Shipki-la!
Thanks for the lovely photos uttam !!!

I liked the shilaajeet [never saw it raw] and the 75 yr old lock.

What medicine is the Ratanjot herb-root? Anything the locals told you?

Is the somalataa eatable? Although this does not seem to be the vedic somalataa, it looks very delicious. The vedic somalataa was a creeper (soma=moon; lataa=creeper) where all the leaves would fall off on amaavasyaa day and they would wax gradually till poornimaa day when all the leaves would be present. Then they would start waning till "no leaves" on amaavasyaa day.

It is still growing somewhere out there in the Himalaya. One day; by my Guru's Grace- I will spot it.
#22 Apr 1st, 2008, 22:19
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#22
.Dilliwala, i went to Tashigang from Namgiya side. Trail to Tashigang from Nako has been pilgrimage trek for Buddhists. Pilgrims used to start from Kirasang. Still there are many takers for this trail.
I was told one requires permission from D.C office to visit the village from Namgia atleast. However, ITBP is not hard on it. Foreigners certainly need to keep their papers in order. Having said that, let me point out that some foreigners managed to reach Tashigang and Somang from Nako side without prior permission. This is because ITBP post is near the winter settlement of Tashigang which is situated few hundred meters below. So the village can be approached from Nako side without anyone to check any thing.
Ka - why one has to cross Spiti river to reach Ka? Ka and Nako are on the same side of the river. Ka has emerged as hamlet of Nako. Nako villagers own apple orchards there. Every day many Nako villagers descend to reach their farm in the morning and takes evening bus to reach back to Nako.

Avid, Ratanjot is put in coconut oil/ mustard oil and occasionally in chuli oil. It renders the oil red and now the oil is applied to scalp . It is very effective against graying hair and hairfall.

Somlata (Its green needle)is chewed in case one frequently feel breathless.However, i ate its berry also, it tasted great. I never knew about the Somlata you mentioned. It really sounds very interesting. Hope you spot it soon and share with us here.
#23 Apr 1st, 2008, 23:35
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#23
Ok, let's go on a virtual tour, uttam.
We're on NH 22 at Puh (BRO camp). 2 km ahead is an intersection. Here we say goodbye for the moment, as you want to see the sangam again. So you take the road which goes RIGHT and downwards towards Dubling, near which you'll cross the bridge across the Satluj onto the left bank. You keep going straight till you cross the Khab Bridge. Now you are on the Spiti's left bank.
Meanwhile I keep going STRAIGHT from where we parted, i.e. still on NH 22, and still above the Satluj's right bank. Eventually this will become the Spiti's right bank beyond Khab Bridge. So now we're on opposite sides of the Spiti - sort of, I'm obviously on higher ground. I will continue on NH 22 all the way. You continue north towards Ka. But since there's eventually only one road to Kaza, and not one each on either bank of the Spiti, where will you and I meet again?
At some point either I have to cross the Spiti, or you have to cross back, right?

BTW, you may have noticed that the NATMO DPM shows the pakka road all the way to Shipki La. As you have confirmed, the road is only upto Namgya Dogri right now. So does that mean the map is simply wrong, or was the original HTR actually pakka right upto the border in the old days?
Last edited by Dilliwala; Apr 2nd, 2008 at 22:49.. Reason: add text
#24 Apr 3rd, 2008, 20:12
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#24
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Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post Ok, let's go on a virtual tour, uttam.
We're on NH 22 at Puh (BRO camp). 2 km ahead is an intersection. Here we say goodbye for the moment, as you want to see the sangam again. So you take the road which goes RIGHT and downwards towards Dubling, near which you'll cross the bridge across the Satluj onto the left bank. You keep going straight till you cross the Khab Bridge. Now you are on the Spiti's left bank.
Meanwhile I keep going STRAIGHT from where we parted, i.e. still on NH 22, and still above the Satluj's right bank. Eventually this will become the Spiti's right bank beyond Khab Bridge. So now we're on opposite sides of the Spiti - sort of, I'm obviously on higher ground. I will continue on NH 22 all the way. You continue north towards Ka. But since there's eventually only one road to Kaza, and not one each on either bank of the Spiti, where will you and I meet again?
At some point either I have to cross the Spiti, or you have to cross back, right?

BTW, you may have noticed that the NATMO DPM shows the pakka road all the way to Shipki La. As you have confirmed, the road is only upto Namgya Dogri right now. So does that mean the map is simply wrong, or was the original HTR actually pakka right upto the border in the old days?
Some real confusion here, I am not aware of any road on the right bank of Satlej and Spiti rivers throughout the stretch between Dubling and till near Leo.

To the best of my Knowledge, there was no metelled road to Shipki-la. That's why our traders have been using ponies for border trade. Chinese had brought road till Shipki village long back.
#25 Apr 4th, 2008, 01:04
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#25
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Originally Posted by uttam View Post Some real confusion here, I am not aware of any road on the right bank of Satlej and Spiti rivers throughout the stretch between Dubling and till near Leo.
uttam
2 km beyond Puh the road forks, right? You have to turn right here and drop down to go to Dubling/Khab/Namgya. But you don't HAVE to take this road to go to Kaza, right? You can just stay on the NH 22, which is at an altitude ABOVE the Satluj at Puh (I didn't say there's a road on the right bank at Dubling). This was the road layout in Oct '06.

Forget the road to Khab. If one just stays on NH 22 all the way, what are the places en-route, say upto Sumdo?
#26 Apr 4th, 2008, 05:53
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#26

Old Hindustan Tibet trade route-NH 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by tasveerr View Post Uttam:

Thanks a ton. That's a good lead to get anything informative about this trade route. I will also dvelve deeper into this and explore further. I am not able to get the exact years when this was started and from where to where first?

Thanks again.
Tasveerr, check this link:-

http://www.answers.com/topic/john-pitt-kennedy

"He (John pitt Kennedy) returned to the army in 1849 as military secretary to Sir Charles Napier and accompanied him to India. There he built the military road named after him and extending from Kalka via Simla to Kunawur and Tibet. He published British Home and Colonial Empire (1865-69), as well as a number of technical works relative to his Indian career."
#27 Apr 8th, 2008, 00:36
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#27

New thread?

What a good thing that the only mod who's dropped in here so far (Nick) has never come far enough North to know that we've been OT since #30.
Yes, we moved MANY miles north of Rupin pass to Shipki La without anyone noticing, heheh. (Wonder where Capt is? I'd think he wud have some input about the area).

So Nick, or any other mod,
Shipki La/HTR is a fascinating area/topic by itself as can be seen by the number of posts generated and will (hopefully) generate more. So I suggest all posts #30 and onwards be merged into a new thread alongwith #7-9 from this thread, they make for fascinating reading (even if we can't get there easily ).
And the posts from either thread are chronological, so won't cause any confusion.
Some title suggestions (for HP forum):
Shipki La
Hindustan Tibet Road to Shipki La
The road to Shipki La

Or just pick one from the concerned posts.
Last edited by Dilliwala; Apr 10th, 2008 at 00:01..
#28 Apr 8th, 2008, 01:56
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#28
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Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post
Forget the road to Khab. If one just stays on NH 22 all the way, what are the places en-route, say upto Sumdo?
I'll start from Spillo:-Spillo, Pooh, Ka, Yangthang, Nako, Malling, Chango, Shalkhar, Sumdo.


Even i was wondering this thread is now less on Rupin pass and more on NH-22 & Shipki-La etc.
#29 Apr 8th, 2008, 02:11
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#29
Sorry, uttam, still confused.
After Puh, one has to turn RIGHT to get to Ka via Dubling and Khab Bridge, correct? Or is there another approach from Leo side. i.e. staying on NH 22 all the way?
#30 Apr 9th, 2008, 07:28
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#30
Quote:
So Nick, or any other mod,
Shipki La/HTR is a fascinating area/topic by itself as can be seen by the number of posts generated and will (hopefully) generate more. So I suggest all posts #30 and onwards be merged into a new thread alongwith #7-9 from this thread, they make for fascinating reading
Mod note: Done, and fascinating thread, btw.
.
This is computer generated drivel. No signature is required.
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