Hindustan Tibet Road to Shipki La

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#1 Mar 31st, 2007, 21:53
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  • Angelina is offline
#1
have never seen pictures of Shipki La in Kinnaur where Sutlej enters India ... any info on Shipki La Kinnaur...

is it allowed to trek over Shipki La ??
#2 Apr 1st, 2007, 18:52
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#2

Lightbulb NO Ma'am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelina View Post have never seen pictures of Shipki La in Kinnaur where Sutlej enters India ... any info on Shipki La Kinnaur...

is it allowed to trek over Shipki La ??
NO, not allowed.

Coz you are crossing over from India to Tibet.

Shipki La is the last road head of the old Hindustan Tibet Road, which goes upto Shipki village in Tibet.

If you were caught taking pix, or heaven forbid, crossing... you will end up in a Chinese or Indian jail...

Some Indians have managed to walk up to the Pass from Nako below [on the Indian side] and take a sneak peek at The Tibet plateau visible alongwith Shipki vilage. To my knowledege, foreigners may not be privileged by even this sneak peek. Army patrol is present at the Pass and the road leading up to the Pass.
The Universe is an ellipsoid?... or a Spheroid?? If the sphere smiles... it becomes an ellipse. This IS Creation.
#3 Apr 1st, 2007, 20:13
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#3

Shipki la photos

hi
this is what I found on web about Shipki la pictures taken by Mr. Romesh Bhattacharjee, an Indian trekker and explorer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63783963@N00/221185521/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63783963@N00/66106797/

And Google earth has good resolution pictures of that area. You can see the tracks, army posts and village houses too.
rajkumar
#4 Mar 26th, 2008, 01:20
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Hi Folks,

I was trying to get some good historic information about Old Hindustan Tibet Trade route that terminates at Chitkul, which is called NH-22 now. I haven't been quite successful in getting an account of what it meant in those days. Would anyone please give any reference, or some links where I can get the information.

Thanks for your help.

Hi Uttam;

Just wondering if you would have any good reference to Old Hindustan Tibet Trade route (NH-22) all the way upto Chitkul. Would appreciate your help.

Thanks
Last edited by Nick-H; Mar 26th, 2008 at 02:24.. Reason: Merged two posts
#5 Mar 26th, 2008, 03:21
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Tasveerr, during Raj days Hindustan Tibet Trade route was through Shipki-la till shipki village in Tibet. It was basically a mule track constructed and maintained by Britishers.
Locals used to do border trade through other passes also which are Lukma-La (Gongma-La),Yamrang-la, Gumarang-la,Shimdang la, Raniso-la,Keobarang etc. People of Baspa and near-by area used to go to Tibet through Yamrang-la and chor-gad valley.

For detailed first hand information You can find Older people at Namgia, Nako, Nesang, Dubling, Charang, Kuno and Chitkul villages. I met an old man with sharp memory at Namgia village who has been on trail to Tibet many times through all these routes.
Tasveerr, i believe you are doing research on Kinnaur. Here's few refrences, hope it is of any use to you:-

1. An account of Koonawar in the Himalaya- A. Gerard (1841) (reprinted by Indus Publication in 1990s) (best according to me)

2. Kinner Desh mein- Rahul Sanskritayan (In Hindi) Kitaab Mahal publication (1956){Its a travelogue but very informative}

3. Exploring Kinnaur and Spiti in the Trans-Himalaya- deepak Sanan & D. Swadi.(1998)(It is basically on trekking but has some very useful infos on other aspects of Kinnaur too).

Other titles which can be useful to you (i don't have much knowledge about these though.
1. Peaks and Lamas -- Marco Pallis (1933)
2. Abode of snow -- Andrew wilson (1866)
3. Western Himalayas & Tibet --Thomas thomson (1848)
4. Antiquities of Indian Tibet-- A.H Francke (1909)


If you are to consult liberaries and Old government records at Rampur, Shimla and Delhi, you can look for Captain Frazer's account which Gerard has frequently mentioned in his account. I haven't been able to see Frazer's record so far...

There is an unpublished M.phil dissertation on trade of old Bushair state in JNU library. But i have not read it.
#6 Mar 26th, 2008, 03:47
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Old Hindustan Tibet trade route-NH 22

Uttam:

Thanks a ton. That's a good lead to get anything informative about this trade route. I will also dvelve deeper into this and explore further. I am not able to get the exact years when this was started and from where to where first?

Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uttam View Post Tasveerr, during Raj days Hindustan Tibet Trade route was through Shipki-la till shipki village in Tibet. It was basically a mule track constructed and maintained by Britishers.
Locals used to do border trade through other passes also which are Lukma-La (Gongma-La),Yamrang-la, Gumarang-la,Shimdang la, Raniso-la,Keobarang etc. People of Baspa and near-by area used to go to Tibet through Yamrang-la and chor-gad valley.

For detailed first hand information You can find Older people at Namgia, Nako, Nesang, Dubling, Charang, Kuno and Chitkul villages. I met an old man with sharp memory at Namgia village who has been on trail to Tibet many times through all these routes.
Tasveerr, i believe you are doing research on Kinnaur. Here's few refrences, hope it is of any use to you:-

1. An account of Koonawar in the Himalaya- A. Gerard (1841) (reprinted by Indus Publication in 1990s) (best according to me)

2. Kinner Desh mein- Rahul Sanskritayan (In Hindi) Kitaab Mahal publication (1956){Its a travelogue but very informative}

3. Exploring Kinnaur and Spiti in the Trans-Himalaya- deepak Sanan & D. Swadi.(1998)(It is basically on trekking but has some very useful infos on other aspects of Kinnaur too).

Other titles which can be useful to you (i don't have much knowledge about these though.
1. Peaks and Lamas -- Marco Pallis (1933)
2. Abode of snow -- Andrew wilson (1866)
3. Western Himalayas & Tibet --Thomas thomson (1848)
4. Antiquities of Indian Tibet-- A.H Francke (1909)


If you are to consult liberaries and Old government records at Rampur, Shimla and Delhi, you can look for Captain Frazer's account which Gerard has frequently mentioned in his account. I haven't been able to see Frazer's record so far...

There is an unpublished M.phil dissertation on trade of old Bushair state in JNU library. But i have not read it.
#7 Mar 26th, 2008, 04:15
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#7
It has been an ancient route for traders and shepherds. People have been moving across since centuries. Britishers only made it walkable for ponies and could maintained that way. I doubt you will find exact year. Explore and keep us posted.

All the best:
#8 Mar 26th, 2008, 06:49
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Contrary to popular belief, the "old" HTR and the "new" NH 22 do not have the same alignment. Nor was Chhitkul or the Baspa valley ever on the HTR.

The original HTR went/goes something like this - Rampur-Gaura-Sarahan-Nichar-Wangtu-Tapri-Urni-Roghi-Kalpa-Pangi-Jangi-Labrang-Puh-Khab-Namgya-Shipki La.
Last edited by Dilliwala; Mar 27th, 2008 at 04:18..
#9 Mar 26th, 2008, 21:54
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Kirung-khad onwards till Khab, the old HTR remains only in traces at places while at some stretches it has completely vanished. Civilians are not allowed Namgiya onward on the HTR trail. Although Namgiya villagers are allowed till Namgiya-Dogri but Chuppan and a Place called Indira market which are before shipki-la is out of bound to even them .
#10 Mar 26th, 2008, 22:52
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Hi, Sven Hedin the Swedish explorer hiked the old HTR hundred years ago...

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The rare 3rd volume of "Trans-Himalaya, Discoveries and Adventures in Tibet" describes some places of old HTR in detail.

In Uttam's addition look also for... R.H Deuster: Kanawar
http://www.allbookstores.com/book/97...s/Kanawar.html

Yes... Explore and keep us posted.

Thanks
Andreas
#11 Mar 27th, 2008, 01:12
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#11

Talking Where is the Army post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uttam View Post Civilians are not allowed Namgiya onward on the HTR trail. Although Namgiya villagers are allowed till Namgiya-Dogri but Chuppan and a Place called Indira market which are before shipki-la is out of bound to even them .
Where is the Army Post located to stop anyone from climbing upto Shipki La? The climb between Namgia and Shipki La is said to be just two hours. This means there is a permanent Army post out there to stop people from going ahead.

<goes hunting for his Army connections and tele nos diary...> <HAVE to go there SOMEHOW>

#12 Mar 27th, 2008, 02:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidTrekker View Post Where is the Army Post located to stop anyone from climbing upto Shipki La? The climb between Namgia and Shipki La is said to be just two hours. This means there is a permanent Army post out there to stop people from going ahead.

<goes hunting for his Army connections and tele nos diary...> <HAVE to go there SOMEHOW>

Avid, if one can manage the trek of about 14 kilometers({ add two more kilometers if you are starting from Namgiya village)I was dropped at Namgiya-dogri in an ITBP Supply truck} in 2 hours, it may be of two of hours duration for that person. But i took little longer, so did the other two ITBP personnel who were goig to Shipki-la post.

I wrote out of whatever i saw last year. Its an open forum and for obvious reasons i can not divulge details of where all our defense forces have their posts in this trail. If anyone still wants try out to reach Shipki-la without prior approval. All i can say that I am sorry for the person!!! Of course, if somebody has wings its a different matter altogether then

Shipki-la is a different sort of Himalayan Pass which most of we trekkers are not used to see. Check it out(though its a very vague snap for a pass but as i said for obvious reason we have to do with it only) :- http://picasaweb.google.com/uuttam/P...50824646933874

Avid, if many things have changed from last year to now. Please, update/correct me.
#13 Mar 27th, 2008, 03:43
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Trust Andreas to always come up with an appropriate map for the occasion
Love the spellings - Satledsch, Beschahr, Natschar, Tschini (Kalpa), Schipki La
But a major boo-boo, putting Ganga in brackets after Satluj.

So how did you manage to avoid capture, uttam? Let us into your secret.
BTW, the ones who care, the Chinese, know where all the posts are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidTrekker View Post Where is the Army Post located to stop anyone from climbing upto Shipki La? The climb between Namgia and Shipki La is said to be just two hours. This means there is a permanent Army post out there to stop people from going ahead.

<goes hunting for his Army connections and tele nos diary...> <HAVE to go there SOMEHOW>

Avidbhai, I thought I had found a useful thread for you (vaguely recalled some info and pics), but then look who the poster was.
(Why wud I believe anyway that you didn't know? I never learn )
BTW, it's an ITBP post (met a guy above Sarahan in '06 who'd served there), so get out your ITBP or MHA nos. diary.


Also by Captain Alexander Gerards:
'Tours in the Himalaya: Account of an attempt to penetrate by Bekhur to Garoo, and the lake Manasarowara'
(Being Vol II of the 'Narrative of a Journey from Caunpoor to the Boorendo Pass in the Himalaya Mountains' by William Lloyd and Alexander Gerards)
Chapter 9 - Tour in the Himalaya: Journey to Numgea
Chapter 10 - Tour in the Himalaya: Description of Shipke

First published 1840, reprinted 1996, Indus Publishing Co.,New Delhi
#14 Mar 27th, 2008, 04:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post So how did you manage to avoid capture, uttam? Let us into your secret.
BTW, the ones who care, the Chinese, know where all the posts are.]
Dilliwala, find some Government work and you will be welcomed there or else find acquaintance among the rank. You may be right about the Chinese. But clearly our denfence forces are not that indiscreet also. Lest, many of us here having talked to ITBP guys and courtesy Google earth should have had little more info about the area and the pass .

Dilliwala and Andreas,
Thanks a lot for the titles on Kinnaur you mentioned. These appear very interesting and i am already beginning to get impatient to get my copy.
Last edited by brownboy66; Mar 27th, 2008 at 10:56.. Reason: fixed quote
#15 Mar 28th, 2008, 13:21
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#15

Talking Pics of Shipki La

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilliwala View Post Avidbhai, I thought I had found a useful thread for you (vaguely recalled some info and pics), but then look who the poster was.
(Why wud I believe anyway that you didn't know? I never learn )
BTW, it's an ITBP post (met a guy above Sarahan in '06 who'd served there), so get out your ITBP or MHA nos. diary.
quote (vaguely recalled some info and pics) unquote

Your recollection is very good !!

The pics by Bhatto on flickr represent the Shipki La of old days. A regular Spiti Pass with cairns marking the Pass (and the border too, in this case). Between 1992 and 1998, one could actually walk up, coz there was a "roving patrol".

The latest pics by uttam show painted signs (aaaargh) and what not !!

Anyway, I have too much respect for the Army, so I won't try foolish things here. But who says you can't access friends of friends ??

Anyway, had a look at Wikimapia... here...

The particular portion is hi-res. The Pass is marked. Road leading to Pass is shown. Village on other side is marked. Marker doesn't know it is Shipki village. Oh well! There are NO secrets nowadays, are there?
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