Somewhat sick in Delhi - advice

Noodle · Feb 4th, 2007, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngradycole

The doctor says that Annie's amoebic infection hasn't gone away, but has infected her right colon (indeed, Annie yelped when the doctor pressed just there - eveidently it hurts). The doctor hooked Annie up to a drip. She is receiving an RL drip and another antibiotic drip (Metronidazole or Metrogyl). Apparently this is because the gut is having trouble digesting the antibiotics. Annie is also taking tablets called Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium -I imagine from the nam,e these are probiotics, but what do I know? Annie's also having blood and stool samples taken and checked.

I'm very sorry to hear of Annie's misfortune! These kind of infection can indeed flare up again and again, it's not uncommon what she's experiencing. So hang in there! Cheer her up, make her laugh!

But first: I'm not a doctor but like to read about diseases and treatments, so here are my thoughts on this one.

Pain in the right abdominal side: has the doctor considered appendicitis? The symptoms are fever, vomiting, nausea and "there usually will be moderate to severe tenderness in the right lower abdomen when the doctor pushes there." (from: www.medicinenet.com)

I don't think diarrhea is a symptom appendicitis, but she might have both? (an infection and appendicitis)

Drip is good. What is RL? She should get electrolytes (salts, sugars) via the drip or orally. If not via the drip, get her a sachet of Electral, and mix it in one litre of water. She can sip that throughout the day.

Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium: yes, they are probiotics and it's good that she takes them. What happens even after one course of AB (and she had several) is that all the neccessary bacteria in your guts needed for digestion are killed as well, so digestion is impaired and harmful bacteria, normally kept in check by the 'good' bacteria can multiply easily. The probiotics will help maintain or rebuild this 'good' bacteria.

Blood and stool samples are also good. AB might have to be adjusted/changed according to the results.

I would also give her vitamins now, Supradin is a good multivitamin tablet + minerals, plus an additional Vitamin C.

Note: vitamins and Electral of course only if your doctor approves.

She should drink a lot of water, at least 2-3 litre a day. Green tea or chamomile tea is also good.

If you want you can also give her a homeopathic medicine called arsenicum album C30. Give her 3 globuli (= little sugar balls) and after 15 minutes again three, then another three before going to sleep.

All the best! Let us know how it goes.

almond · Feb 4th, 2007, 21:29

Probably relevant to this thread..

Quote:

Govt ready to get rid of Delhi Belly

Pragya Singh
New Delhi, February 4, 2007

The government is looking to get rid of Delhi Belly. In an effort to try and reduce problems due to unsafe food, it has decided to create 'safe food' zones across seven major cities, part of a three-year plan to improve the quality of street food in the country.

The experiment, which will kick off next month, has already been approved by the Planning Commission with a preliminary funding of about Rs5 crore per city.

The goal is that by 2010, there will be at least three such safe food zones in each of the targeted cities—New Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai, Bangalore, Agra, Mumbai and Jaipur.

Around 500 vendors in each area will be covered under the programme. "Nearly everyone in India has had food on the go because it is tasty, inexpensive and nutritious. We are trying to improve the quality of these meals by setting informal standards. Hawkers face extensive policing in India but still don’t meet the minimum health standards," said PI Suvarthan, secretary, ministry of food processing industries.

It is unclear how the project will address the lack of clean water or garbage disposal but the ministry is using non-government agencies Sulabh and VOICE as well as the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) to help with the project. The inspiration partly comes from Lahore’s popular Food Street near Gawalmandi that was established in 2000, and the and the ubiquitous hot dog and pretzel stands in Manhattan.

The principle idea behind the project is to try and improve standards without government interference while the private sector, especially branded products companies, will fund the effort in return for placing their ads on the newly designed push-carts. CII says it has a new design in place that shouldn’t cost more than what current carts cost to manufacture. It has begun approaching companies such as Nestle, ITC, Tata and Hindustan Lever to sponsor the new carts, in return for prominent display of their product advertising.

The modular cart is designed for vendors to add on specific components—for dry food, for cooking or just for fruit juices without having to replace the entire cart, thus helping keep the costs low, says Savita Nagpal, who heads CCI’s manufacturing sector unit.

The move towards informal standardization of street food follows a Parliamentary Committee’s decision that the new laws for food safety should not increase policing of street-food vendors. The ministry has now concluded that with thousands of hawker families living just above poverty levels, trying to regulate their sales through more government regulation is unlikely to work.

“The government will only part-fund the effort and will not appoint additional quality inspectors. Instead, NGOs will monitor the health and standard of vendors, using committees that will include food consumers,” Suvarthan insists.

The government has also decided to create a new certification mechanism that will give on-the-spot accreditation to vendors, based on standards informally approved by the Quality Council of India, an autonomous body.

Instead of one of the 6,000 government food inspectors in the country and the16 major laws affecting the sector directly or indirectly, a group of four people, including representatives from NGOs and consumers will have the final word on food safety when it comes to these zones.

Email Pragya Singh: pragya.s@livemint.com

url

almond · Feb 4th, 2007, 22:04

btw while on the subject of amoeba and bacteria. I too had such a harrowing experience recently, eventhough I consider myself to be a seasoned camper and a veteran in tackling the various bugs that this land has to throw at me.

In November, I contracted what I felt was mild viral fever/dengue. I felt really sick for 3-7 days. After which the fever started subsiding. While I was still fighting the virus I developed mild UTI which overnight turned into something serious and I developed a hydrocele the size of Ohio the next day morning.

My right testicle swelled to the size of unimaginable proportions, so much so that I thought it would burst out at any moment and spill out its contents all over the place. I was afraid and embarassed to visit a doctor since, firstly since it included him fondling the equipment down there and secondly I was afraid that if the doctor was not extremely careful he would end up bursting the hydrocele or hurting me bad .. since it was thaaat bad.

I could not pass urine except in bits and dribbles and it hurt real bad, so much so that I felt I was in labor each time I went to pee.

I searched a bit on the net, and looked into some books as to what caused the hyrdrocele. I then logged onto WebMD and another forum wherein a person was talking of the exact same situation that I found myself in. I also found out that the said person was talking a Ciprofloxacin 1000mg for 4 weeks to see that the infection had been removed from the system without a trace. I then prodded someone in my family to make a phone call to a doctor near my house and ask him for advice keeping in mind my symptoms. Hydrocele...burning sensation while pee etc etc. And I also requested teh person to get me cipro 1000mg incase the doctor was refusing to cooperate since I was that bad.

Doc said that he required a urine sample asked me send it to a lab asap. After a culture and specific tests were done the bacteria was isolated and I guess I took Norfloxacin 200mg for 2 or 3 weeks along with citrate syrup (potassium citrate w/ citric acid) for about a week.

bi-weekly I was supposed to submit my urine for further analysis and culture, which I did. I also decided to wear support underwear (thong-like) instead of the regular boxers to support tha big fellow down there from hurting himself or hanging around in ways that might cause it permanent harm. The little guy to the left also might have developed a complex...

Anyhow I took around 4 weeks for the bacteria/amoeba infected disease to cure completely and the swelling completely vanish. I could sense a trace of the epididymitis lingering about even after 4 weeks. But severe UTI was over within 5 days of the medication and when I had sent my urine for culture there was absolutely no trace of bacteria.

What frightened me was the speed with which the infection had spread down there, sorta reminded me of the biblical line...

"And the lord smite him down there and he was consumed with a brutal disease..."

ahh my India...not a dull moment !

johngradycole · Feb 5th, 2007, 15:30

Thanks very much for the well-informed reply, Noodle! That's an inetresting point you make about appendicits. No one has mentioned it but I'll check with the doctor this afternoon if he thinks there's any possibility that Annie may have that too. I think we want to get absolutely everythign checked out while she's there, after all.

The good news we heard tis morning was that Annie shoudbe outof hospital tomorrow. With luck we'll be able to recmmence our travels. Of course we have to wait for the blood and stool sample tests to come back first, so no jubilation yet, but fingers crossed.

I'll try to keep everyone inormed about progress...
Jason

drzog · Feb 5th, 2007, 18:56

hi there...you know if you were in a western country, she would be offered a colonoscopy to check for inflammatory bowel disease (often set off by infections), perhaps one might consider this on your return. Glad she is on recovery.

Nick-H · Feb 5th, 2007, 19:32

And you could get it done here cheaper/easier than in UK. So, any test that is thought necessary, why not come back clutching the result, and astound the UK docs at the low cost.

johngradycole · Feb 8th, 2007, 20:21

Hmmm, interesting idea. Let's see how excited Annie gets at the idea of a colonoscopy!

We're back to the hospital for a check -up tomorrow. If all ges well, the end of this thread may eventually be in sight. I'm sure this will be a relief to everyone!

Best wishes,

Jason

johngradycole · Feb 22nd, 2007, 14:39

Hi guys,

Just to keep you up to date - more hassles! Annie seemed fine when we left the hospital in Goa, so we followed our travel plan and came to Bangkok. Lovely place, very shiny hospitals. She got ill again yesterday, exactly two weeks after leaving te Indian hospital. The same bug is back; it seems to have survived three days on an antibiotic drip and who knows what-all else. The Thai doctors want to do the same thing all over again. We think that if that's the prospect, we'd be best cutting short our trip and going home.

So after a very eventful few months in India (thanks for your support -IMers are the kindest people in the world) and three days in Thailand, with extraordinay reluctance we are booking plane tickets back to where we came from.

Just thought I'd tell you, since you've all been so kind as to offer such a lot of help and advce over these last few months.

Hope everyone's Indian travels are less eventful and much more tranquil than ours!

Jason

Nick-H · Feb 22nd, 2007, 14:51

Sorry to hear about that.

Do let us know the outcome back in UK.

Very best wishes...

drzog · Feb 22nd, 2007, 14:57

Thats no good my friend, damn shame...

like i suggested goto a gastroenterologist back home for assessment/ colonoscopy/... i might also suggest seeing a good herbalist/naturopath because herbal/nutritional medicine is wonderful for helping the gut recover regardless of whether it is infection of inflammation or both (likely). Remember that all the antibiotics kill of the billions of health promoting natural bacteria we symbiotically co-exist with.

When you get home see if you can track down a nutritional powder containing glutamine (an amino acid for the bowel healing), + zinc, slippery elm powder (also very wonderful on its own and easily found), vitamin A, pectin (from apples) + some other goodies - sometimes glucosamine..i use alot of it for my patients with great success.. aloe vera juice is ok but not as effective..(grated apple is a granny's remedy for diarrhoea because of the pectin)

In no way did i wish to demean the quality of Indian colonoscopies however one of my positions in Australia is as an anaesthetist at a colonoscopy clinic and patients generally tell me it is performed without anaesthetic in india/asia....western countries usually use short term anaesthetics to make the whole experience more bearable

good luck!!

Dr Z

Noodle · Feb 22nd, 2007, 16:12

Jason, that's really a pity, but I think it's the sensible thing to do now.

All the best to you both and keep us posted!

Feb 5th, 2007, 18:56	#95
drzog Based On A True Story Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 105	hi there...you know if you were in a western country, she would be offered a colonoscopy to check for inflammatory bowel disease (often set off by infections), perhaps one might consider this on your return. Glad she is on recovery. __________________ yours in health http://drzog.blogspot.com

Feb 5th, 2007, 19:32	#96
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 28,426	And you could get it done here cheaper/easier than in UK. So, any test that is thought necessary, why not come back clutching the result, and astound the UK docs at the low cost. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

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Feb 4th, 2007, 22:04	#93
almond Mike Myers Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 125	btw while on the subject of amoeba and bacteria. I too had such a harrowing experience recently, eventhough I consider myself to be a seasoned camper and a veteran in tackling the various bugs that this land has to throw at me. In November, I contracted what I felt was mild viral fever/dengue. I felt really sick for 3-7 days. After which the fever started subsiding. While I was still fighting the virus I developed mild UTI which overnight turned into something serious and I developed a hydrocele the size of Ohio the next day morning. My right testicle swelled to the size of unimaginable proportions, so much so that I thought it would burst out at any moment and spill out its contents all over the place. I was afraid and embarassed to visit a doctor since, firstly since it included him fondling the equipment down there and secondly I was afraid that if the doctor was not extremely careful he would end up bursting the hydrocele or hurting me bad .. since it was thaaat bad. I could not pass urine except in bits and dribbles and it hurt real bad, so much so that I felt I was in labor each time I went to pee. I searched a bit on the net, and looked into some books as to what caused the hyrdrocele. I then logged onto WebMD and another forum wherein a person was talking of the exact same situation that I found myself in. I also found out that the said person was talking a Ciprofloxacin 1000mg for 4 weeks to see that the infection had been removed from the system without a trace. I then prodded someone in my family to make a phone call to a doctor near my house and ask him for advice keeping in mind my symptoms. Hydrocele...burning sensation while pee etc etc. And I also requested teh person to get me cipro 1000mg incase the doctor was refusing to cooperate since I was that bad. Doc said that he required a urine sample asked me send it to a lab asap. After a culture and specific tests were done the bacteria was isolated and I guess I took Norfloxacin 200mg for 2 or 3 weeks along with citrate syrup (potassium citrate w/ citric acid) for about a week. bi-weekly I was supposed to submit my urine for further analysis and culture, which I did. I also decided to wear support underwear (thong-like) instead of the regular boxers to support tha big fellow down there from hurting himself or hanging around in ways that might cause it permanent harm. The little guy to the left also might have developed a complex... Anyhow I took around 4 weeks for the bacteria/amoeba infected disease to cure completely and the swelling completely vanish. I could sense a trace of the epididymitis lingering about even after 4 weeks. But severe UTI was over within 5 days of the medication and when I had sent my urine for culture there was absolutely no trace of bacteria. What frightened me was the speed with which the infection had spread down there, sorta reminded me of the biblical line... "And the lord smite him down there and he was consumed with a brutal disease..." ahh my India...not a dull moment !

Feb 5th, 2007, 15:30	#94
johngradycole Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 56	Thanks very much for the well-informed reply, Noodle! That's an inetresting point you make about appendicits. No one has mentioned it but I'll check with the doctor this afternoon if he thinks there's any possibility that Annie may have that too. I think we want to get absolutely everythign checked out while she's there, after all. The good news we heard tis morning was that Annie shoudbe outof hospital tomorrow. With luck we'll be able to recmmence our travels. Of course we have to wait for the blood and stool sample tests to come back first, so no jubilation yet, but fingers crossed. I'll try to keep everyone inormed about progress... Jason

Feb 8th, 2007, 20:21	#97
johngradycole Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 56	Hmmm, interesting idea. Let's see how excited Annie gets at the idea of a colonoscopy! We're back to the hospital for a check -up tomorrow. If all ges well, the end of this thread may eventually be in sight. I'm sure this will be a relief to everyone! Best wishes, Jason

Feb 22nd, 2007, 14:39	#98
johngradycole Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 56	Hi guys, Just to keep you up to date - more hassles! Annie seemed fine when we left the hospital in Goa, so we followed our travel plan and came to Bangkok. Lovely place, very shiny hospitals. She got ill again yesterday, exactly two weeks after leaving te Indian hospital. The same bug is back; it seems to have survived three days on an antibiotic drip and who knows what-all else. The Thai doctors want to do the same thing all over again. We think that if that's the prospect, we'd be best cutting short our trip and going home. So after a very eventful few months in India (thanks for your support -IMers are the kindest people in the world) and three days in Thailand, with extraordinay reluctance we are booking plane tickets back to where we came from. Just thought I'd tell you, since you've all been so kind as to offer such a lot of help and advce over these last few months. Hope everyone's Indian travels are less eventful and much more tranquil than ours! Jason

Feb 22nd, 2007, 14:51	#99
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 28,426	Sorry to hear about that. Do let us know the outcome back in UK. Very best wishes...

Feb 22nd, 2007, 14:57	#100
drzog Based On A True Story Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 105	Thats no good my friend, damn shame... like i suggested goto a gastroenterologist back home for assessment/ colonoscopy/... i might also suggest seeing a good herbalist/naturopath because herbal/nutritional medicine is wonderful for helping the gut recover regardless of whether it is infection of inflammation or both (likely). Remember that all the antibiotics kill of the billions of health promoting natural bacteria we symbiotically co-exist with. When you get home see if you can track down a nutritional powder containing glutamine (an amino acid for the bowel healing), + zinc, slippery elm powder (also very wonderful on its own and easily found), vitamin A, pectin (from apples) + some other goodies - sometimes glucosamine..i use alot of it for my patients with great success.. aloe vera juice is ok but not as effective..(grated apple is a granny's remedy for diarrhoea because of the pectin) In no way did i wish to demean the quality of Indian colonoscopies however one of my positions in Australia is as an anaesthetist at a colonoscopy clinic and patients generally tell me it is performed without anaesthetic in india/asia....western countries usually use short term anaesthetics to make the whole experience more bearable good luck!! Dr Z

Feb 22nd, 2007, 16:12	#101
Noodle Crazy for the furry ones Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pune, India Posts: 1,026	Jason, that's really a pity, but I think it's the sensible thing to do now. All the best to you both and keep us posted!

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