Rabies vaccination - is it worth it?

Nick-H · Mar 5th, 2008, 19:17

Nobody is inoculated in UK either, as the disease has been eradicated --- hence the very tough restrictions on taking animals into the country.

Here in India, the vet has told us it is necessary to get our newly acquired cats inoculated, but that we need not be ourselves just on account of living with them.

karuna · Mar 5th, 2008, 20:05

The last death from indigenous rabies in the UK was in 1902. There is a rabies-like disease of UK bats however, and a man did die from it some time around 2002.

/useless facts

PeakXV · Mar 5th, 2008, 20:15

If the UK has viral forms of bat rabies then don't they still have rabies? If we didn't count the bat rabies strain in Canada as rabies - we'd be almost free of the dreaded disease too! Our last death from rabies was in 2000:

Read Here

Oyar · Mar 6th, 2008, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

Geesuz has everybody in India been or know somebody that's been bitten by a dog.

Sorry I'm not a Doctor I was just relating a recent report in our local paper and perhaps the standards are different in some areas of India but go to the WHO link here - there it describes the RIG "should be infiltrated into the depth of the wound and around the wound ...." Hope that helps with any confusion.

Yess .. i have been bitten quite badly .. to the extent that my calf swelled up real bad & i could not walk or use the leg for 2-3 days. (in this case - the dog had all symptoms of being rabid)

On a separate ocassion - my sister was bitten on the cheek by a dog. In this case we were travelling & so we had no idea incase the dog were to develop any symptoms.

More than half my immediate family are doctors. We also consulted a doctor on the panel of doctors for Serum Institute of India (importers of rabipur / verorab)

Atleast I have never even heard of any injections in or around the wound till date from any doctor in India.

As I said .. the WHO guideline could be for any country .. considering that Rabipur / Verorab is not available

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownboy66

Couple of point to make here - I guess the original question put forward by the op was from someone who has never had the pre shots. That being the case the recommended course for someone who had never had the rabies vaccine at any time is HRIG in the wound, followed by the vaccine - which is what happened in the case of PeakXVs children. In your case - have you had the rabies vaccine before? As explained by our travel doctor to us - if you had the vaccine then you don't need the HRIG - so if I get bitten there is no need for me to get HRIG in the wound - just 3 follow up shots.

I did not have the pre shots. neither did my sister when she was bitten on the cheek. Yet we were never adviced any shots in / around the wound. We just took the rabipur / verorab as per schedule.

kristinm · Mar 6th, 2008, 02:13

Even 30 days after I was scratched the Government infectious diseases people recommended I have the immunoglobulin around the wound and then the course of 5 shots...ouch! Apparently it can be up to 9 years until symptoms appear...

We don't have rabies here either (probably why they are so paranoid) but we do have the bat disease - its called Lyssisistra or something like that... if you get scratched or bitten by a bat you have the same shots as I'm having now. I don't think its as deadly as rabies though...

Oyar · Mar 6th, 2008, 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

I would have thought that most tourist dog bites would be as part of a fleeting relationship, and the bitten would be unlikely ever to see that dog again. I find it rather strange to see advice in guide books on seeing what happens to the dog!

Very true. Its arong suggesting this.

Even if the one is around to see what happens to the dog ... by the time symptoms are noticed in the dog... it can be too late!!

Hypothetical but possible situation -

Dog A with rabies bites dog B. Dog B - shows no symptoms of rabies at all & lives like a normal healthy dog. In the meantime .. Dog B bites human. Dog B will transmit the rabies to the human .. & still continue to live healthy for a while!!!

Rabies symptoms can at times ... take even upto 6 weeks to surface in dogs. (i might be wrong tho ... maybe even longer).

It can be even longer in cats. Not sure of bats & monkeys.

THEREFORE SAFEST BET IS TO IMMEDIATELY START THE PROCESS OF THE SHOTS. DO NOT WAIT for dog to show symptoms!!

Also ... its not necessary that a rabid dog will only behave aggrssively. A rabid dog ... is also likely to behave very timidly.

manali4now · Mar 6th, 2008, 03:21

About knowing "too late" about a bite...

I was in Dharamsala a few years ago and heard the news about a Tibetan boy dying from Rabies. Seems it was a small bite and he didn't tell his parents.

SitaParityaga · Mar 6th, 2008, 07:59

Your information is very helpful, Oyar. You helped me remember rabid dogs are not always aggressive, they can look timid as well.

I find it difficult to resist paying attention to dogs, I just love them. Don't know of any better way to avoid the possibility of being bitten than to just stay away from them.

I'm curious, Oyar, do you have any insights on how to best avoid being bitten? It sounds like you and your sister were badly hurt by your doggy encounters, to say the least. Do you have any words of wisdom about reducing your risk of being bitten?

Nick-H · Mar 6th, 2008, 08:59

I'm fond of our street dogs here, and most of them are in reasonable condition, but I won't go to touch or stroke one.

I'd say, keep them at arm's length, although keeping anything at arms length is not always possible in this crowded country.

I recall seeing a man walk past a dog, actually hitting its nose with his leg as he did so. Dog didn't take any notice whatsoever!

On one occasion, when I was sitting on a bench in a public garden, a dog came and put her head on my lap!

I am concerned about our cats, despite the vet's advice.

One day, in the office in London, a visitor looked at my scratched hands and and asked if I'd been gardening. No; playing with the cat! Biting and scratching is all part of play to a growing kitten, although I've never had a cat bite pierce the skin. Cats seem to think I'm one of them, so they can be quite rough when we play.

How long does the 'protection' from the vaccine last?

brownboy66 · Mar 7th, 2008, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

How long does the 'protection' from the vaccine last?

our vaccination record book says a "reinforcing shot" is needed every 1-3 years.

Nick-H · Mar 7th, 2008, 14:07

That'll be after the shot accross the bows, I suppose?

Thanks.

Oyar · Mar 7th, 2008, 14:15

@ SitaParityaga

Everyone in my family are animal lovers .. especially dog lovers ... so we tend to get ourselves into these stupid situations.

My sister's incident
We were on a holiday. Stray dog belonging to the gardener of the bungalow .. was friendly with us .. but ferocious with strangers.
After 3 days a lot more ppl joined us & there was a lot of commotion. In this .. the poor dog was shooed away a couple of times & one gentlemen playful antagonised the dog by pulling his ears. So the poor dog was quite pissed at this time.

He then falls as sleep & is happily dreaming... when my sister (8 yrs at that time) decides to bend over & kiss the dog. Poor fellow.. got a fright & as he was in a foul mood already .. just snapped at my sis ... he got her cheek. Luckily wasnt too bad. But it was a scary time .. because we left in a day. We knew the dog had not taken his shots ... & also there was no way of knowing his condition!

My story.
Society dog. Was pretty close to me, eat from our house, etc. Suddenly one day - rumours that he had become rabid & had bitten numerous people. I was most upset. I heard him barking in the compound .. & ran out to see. Went up to him .. & spoke to him.

dint pet him. But then made the mistake of backing him & walking away. Next thing... he was hanging on to my calf. Bit me real bad .. thru my thick jeans.

Lessons to be kept in mind. From personal experience & stuff ive read.

1. Use common sense! Avoid getting into stupid situations.

2. Do not approach unknown dogs who are sleeping & MOST IMPORTANTLY - EATING. (stray dogs live in a harsh environment & are under threat from humans & other dogs. they can get startled & snap if awoken suddenly. food can be difficult in areas where there are a lot of strays. they think anyone approaching when they are eating .. will take away their food & hence they get aggressive.

3. avoid approaching mothers who have pups. they can be protective & aggressive.

4. NEVER EVER run away from a dog. It gets them more interested.

5. If chased by dogs .. best thing to do is just slow down / stop. Dont move. speak in a calm & friendly voice... just say anything to them. Hearing your friendly voice can calm them down. Never have fear in your voice. Avoid looking at the dog in the eye.
(Applicable if dog is right next to you & very aggressive or about to attack)

6. If a dog is at a distance & is running at you like a savage. Its your turn to be aggressive. Look at him straight in the eye..make an aggressive face & show ur teeth. With a sudden movement - pretend to pick up a stone & fling it at the dog. (Basically if the dog is far away .. & you look equally scary to him .. he will avoid you). If he persists .. actually pick up a stone & throw it near (NOT AT) the dog. He will now know you are for real & stay away.

7. Dogs who just bark.. will rarely bite. A dog who is growling ferociously ... is warning you to stay away & will attack if provoked further.

8. Never encourage / allow dogs / cats to lick / scratch you .. especially on the face.

9. Every dog has its territory. Some dogs like to guard theirs very ferociously. So if you going in a property where there are dogs... preferably have the owner come out & bring you in.

10. Dogs love to chase 2 wheelers .. or sudden movement. If you simply slow down .. they loose interest. On the other hand ... if a you accelerate .. & head straight at them... they get scared & run away.

11. While most dogs are affectionate. There are some .. who genuinely hate being petted. Dont persist & just leave them alone.

12. If a dog you come close to - with the intention of petting - & he pulls his ears 'back & down' ( parallel to his neck) It could be a very high indication that he is about to bite.

13. Some dogs have places on their body which they dont like touched... be aware & respect it.

14. In the very rare event of a dog actually attacking you savagely... if you dont have any stick / weapon at close quarters its best to give the dog your ARM (not hand) as soon as he bites - lift your arm up in the air & kick the dog hard on his exposed belly.
This will save your face & neck. Never purposefully give your leg, because inevitably if the attack continues .. you will fall down & be much more vulnerable.

15. If you know a dog has symptoms of rabies .. dont go near it ! (my stupidity)

Nick-H · Mar 7th, 2008, 14:31

There is a lot of good sense there.

Although a good growl should make sense to anybody, a lot of people, especially children do not understand animal body language.

Oyar · Mar 7th, 2008, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

a lot of people, especially children do not understand animal body language.

Very true... & then the poor animals are blamed!

karuna · Mar 7th, 2008, 17:14

My dad always said if you're completely trapped, play dead, or expose your belly (I don't mean literally, I mean lie on your back). This is a sign of submission and an aggressive dog will not see you as a threat if you do this.

Here's a nice little article on dealing with aggressive dogs.

Mar 5th, 2008, 19:17	#61
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,905	Nobody is inoculated in UK either, as the disease has been eradicated --- hence the very tough restrictions on taking animals into the country. Here in India, the vet has told us it is necessary to get our newly acquired cats inoculated, but that we need not be ourselves just on account of living with them. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Mar 5th, 2008, 20:15	#63
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 4,200	If the UK has viral forms of bat rabies then don't they still have rabies? If we didn't count the bat rabies strain in Canada as rabies - we'd be almost free of the dreaded disease too! Our last death from rabies was in 2000: Read Here __________________ We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started ...and know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

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Mar 5th, 2008, 20:05	#62
karuna The cat's mother Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,718	The last death from indigenous rabies in the UK was in 1902. There is a rabies-like disease of UK bats however, and a man did die from it some time around 2002. /useless facts

Mar 6th, 2008, 02:13	#65
kristinm Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Beautiful Bondi (not Bundi!) Posts: 1,483	Even 30 days after I was scratched the Government infectious diseases people recommended I have the immunoglobulin around the wound and then the course of 5 shots...ouch! Apparently it can be up to 9 years until symptoms appear... We don't have rabies here either (probably why they are so paranoid) but we do have the bat disease - its called Lyssisistra or something like that... if you get scratched or bitten by a bat you have the same shots as I'm having now. I don't think its as deadly as rabies though...

Mar 6th, 2008, 03:21	#67
manali4now Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 71	About knowing "too late" about a bite... I was in Dharamsala a few years ago and heard the news about a Tibetan boy dying from Rabies. Seems it was a small bite and he didn't tell his parents.

Mar 6th, 2008, 07:59	#68
SitaParityaga member in the forest Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 904	Your information is very helpful, Oyar. You helped me remember rabid dogs are not always aggressive, they can look timid as well. I find it difficult to resist paying attention to dogs, I just love them. Don't know of any better way to avoid the possibility of being bitten than to just stay away from them. I'm curious, Oyar, do you have any insights on how to best avoid being bitten? It sounds like you and your sister were badly hurt by your doggy encounters, to say the least. Do you have any words of wisdom about reducing your risk of being bitten?

Mar 6th, 2008, 08:59	#69
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,905	I'm fond of our street dogs here, and most of them are in reasonable condition, but I won't go to touch or stroke one. I'd say, keep them at arm's length, although keeping anything at arms length is not always possible in this crowded country. I recall seeing a man walk past a dog, actually hitting its nose with his leg as he did so. Dog didn't take any notice whatsoever! On one occasion, when I was sitting on a bench in a public garden, a dog came and put her head on my lap! I am concerned about our cats, despite the vet's advice. One day, in the office in London, a visitor looked at my scratched hands and and asked if I'd been gardening. No; playing with the cat! Biting and scratching is all part of play to a growing kitten, although I've never had a cat bite pierce the skin. Cats seem to think I'm one of them, so they can be quite rough when we play. How long does the 'protection' from the vaccine last?

Mar 7th, 2008, 14:07	#71
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,905	That'll be after the shot accross the bows, I suppose? Thanks.

Mar 7th, 2008, 14:15	#72
Oyar Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 170	@ SitaParityaga Everyone in my family are animal lovers .. especially dog lovers ... so we tend to get ourselves into these stupid situations. My sister's incident We were on a holiday. Stray dog belonging to the gardener of the bungalow .. was friendly with us .. but ferocious with strangers. After 3 days a lot more ppl joined us & there was a lot of commotion. In this .. the poor dog was shooed away a couple of times & one gentlemen playful antagonised the dog by pulling his ears. So the poor dog was quite pissed at this time. He then falls as sleep & is happily dreaming... when my sister (8 yrs at that time) decides to bend over & kiss the dog. Poor fellow.. got a fright & as he was in a foul mood already .. just snapped at my sis ... he got her cheek. Luckily wasnt too bad. But it was a scary time .. because we left in a day. We knew the dog had not taken his shots ... & also there was no way of knowing his condition! My story. Society dog. Was pretty close to me, eat from our house, etc. Suddenly one day - rumours that he had become rabid & had bitten numerous people. I was most upset. I heard him barking in the compound .. & ran out to see. Went up to him .. & spoke to him. dint pet him. But then made the mistake of backing him & walking away. Next thing... he was hanging on to my calf. Bit me real bad .. thru my thick jeans. Lessons to be kept in mind. From personal experience & stuff ive read. 1. Use common sense! Avoid getting into stupid situations. 2. Do not approach unknown dogs who are sleeping & MOST IMPORTANTLY - EATING. (stray dogs live in a harsh environment & are under threat from humans & other dogs. they can get startled & snap if awoken suddenly. food can be difficult in areas where there are a lot of strays. they think anyone approaching when they are eating .. will take away their food & hence they get aggressive. 3. avoid approaching mothers who have pups. they can be protective & aggressive. 4. NEVER EVER run away from a dog. It gets them more interested. 5. If chased by dogs .. best thing to do is just slow down / stop. Dont move. speak in a calm & friendly voice... just say anything to them. Hearing your friendly voice can calm them down. Never have fear in your voice. Avoid looking at the dog in the eye. (Applicable if dog is right next to you & very aggressive or about to attack) 6. If a dog is at a distance & is running at you like a savage. Its your turn to be aggressive. Look at him straight in the eye..make an aggressive face & show ur teeth. With a sudden movement - pretend to pick up a stone & fling it at the dog. (Basically if the dog is far away .. & you look equally scary to him .. he will avoid you). If he persists .. actually pick up a stone & throw it near (NOT AT) the dog. He will now know you are for real & stay away. 7. Dogs who just bark.. will rarely bite. A dog who is growling ferociously ... is warning you to stay away & will attack if provoked further. 8. Never encourage / allow dogs / cats to lick / scratch you .. especially on the face. 9. Every dog has its territory. Some dogs like to guard theirs very ferociously. So if you going in a property where there are dogs... preferably have the owner come out & bring you in. 10. Dogs love to chase 2 wheelers .. or sudden movement. If you simply slow down .. they loose interest. On the other hand ... if a you accelerate .. & head straight at them... they get scared & run away. 11. While most dogs are affectionate. There are some .. who genuinely hate being petted. Dont persist & just leave them alone. 12. If a dog you come close to - with the intention of petting - & he pulls his ears 'back & down' ( parallel to his neck) It could be a very high indication that he is about to bite. 13. Some dogs have places on their body which they dont like touched... be aware & respect it. 14. In the very rare event of a dog actually attacking you savagely... if you dont have any stick / weapon at close quarters its best to give the dog your ARM (not hand) as soon as he bites - lift your arm up in the air & kick the dog hard on his exposed belly. This will save your face & neck. Never purposefully give your leg, because inevitably if the attack continues .. you will fall down & be much more vulnerable. 15. If you know a dog has symptoms of rabies .. dont go near it ! (my stupidity)

Mar 7th, 2008, 14:31	#73
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,905	There is a lot of good sense there. Although a good growl should make sense to anybody, a lot of people, especially children do not understand animal body language.

Mar 7th, 2008, 17:14	#75
karuna The cat's mother Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,718	My dad always said if you're completely trapped, play dead, or expose your belly (I don't mean literally, I mean lie on your back). This is a sign of submission and an aggressive dog will not see you as a threat if you do this. Here's a nice little article on dealing with aggressive dogs.

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