food? potassium permanganate?

Zeppy · Nov 26th, 2006, 17:35

So: as a Westerner, you should avoid meat, eggs (unless hard boiled), milk, vegetables unless boiled, and fruit unless you can peel it. There goes my usual diet. What exactly can you eat safely? This may not sound like a serious question, but I'm really wondering.

I remember when I lived in India with my parents they washed fresh vegetables in a reddish-purple bath called "potassium permanganate" (and, no doubt, they then rinsed these vegetables off in boiled water). Is potassium permanganate still recommended and used?

We all got sick, of course--but mainly while traveling and eating in restaurants. On my upcoming trip I'll be traveling and eating in restaurants. Is there a good way to pick restaurants these days? What about the food sold on trains? Safe?

SANJAY_DEL · Nov 26th, 2006, 17:44

Potassium permanganate is mostly not available anywhere.
Food prepared in hygienic conditions is just fine.
And that is found in every holiday destination.
Just avoid street food, food off the railway platforms, even tap water.

machadinha · Nov 26th, 2006, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppy

So: as a Westerner, you should avoid meat, eggs (unless hard boiled), milk, vegetables unless boiled, and fruit unless you can peel it. There goes my usual diet. What exactly can you eat safely? This may not sound like a serious question, but I'm really wondering.

Eat anything you like, please. Don't let any of us here put you off. Be sensible about where you eat, but you may strike up some nasty infection in a 5-star place just as much as you might on the ground.

As a rule of thumb if a place looks popular it should be OK. Not only will people have not fallen ill there recently, but there's a higher turn-over of the food served so it doesn't stand around all day.

It's the fancier places with too few clients really that should make you worry (being able to see the kitchen is also nice), but I'm sure not everyone will agree.

cyberhippie · Nov 26th, 2006, 19:03

Yeah eat whatever you like as Mach says, another good rule of thumb would be to eat at the proper times when the food is fresh like 6.30-8am breakfast 12-2pm Lunch 6.30-8.30pm dinner. Here you stand the best chance of getting food fresh off the hob so to speak.
Perhaps leave out the salad and street stalls until your body has grown accustomed to local bacteria!! Salad is usually washed in local water!! So be extra careful there!!

Meat is generally fresh and well cooked (there are few Indian dishes that require rarely cooked meat) and eggs in omelette form or indeed poached or scrambled (but well cooked) is also fine.

Train food varies greatly and comes in such a variety of "healthy" states that it would be difficulty to give a one answer fits all. I've been dicky after some curd I ate on a train but never had any other problems with train food.

Oh and when in a restaurant don't ever look at the "cloth" it's a nightmare not to be seen by the unaccustomed eye, an outrage of hygene, peddler of bacterias as yet unknown. pollutant of all who come into contact. Really it's better not to see it........promise!!

machadinha · Nov 26th, 2006, 19:10

<cross-posted with Cyber of course

>

More precisely (I eat fish but no meat mind):

>meat

I don't know. Seeing an Indian butcher's can be off-putting. I find it the same at home though. Like I said, I don't eat meat. (Esp. in the south you'll regularly get fish though with a thali or whatever. Nothing wrong with it, unless you're not a fish eater. Fresh out of the river or that's what I would say.)

>eggs (unless hard boiled)

This has been something that's come up here recently for some reason right? You'll find them scrambled and cooked and omeletted or whatever you like, don't worry about it. I don't eat them raw at home.

>milk

Not so widely available anyway if I recall. Probably you get pasteurized stuff in anywhere not completely remote, otherwise forget about it. As you'll have read on other threads curd (yoghurt) is readily available & good for the stomach. Lassi is a yoghurt drink which is likewise good. This is gonna cause this thread to turn into 300 pages about ice cubes being involved or not but should generally be OK. Ask for no ice cubes

>vegetables unless boiled,

You'll have a hard time not getting your veggies cooked or baked. Are you planning on cooking yourself? I didn't think so from previous enquiries. India has one of the best vegetarian cuisines in the world, you're from there right? I managed to overeat.

>and fruit unless you can peel it

Yes, makes sense. You can pretty much thoroughly rinse or peel or skin any fruit, so should cause little problems.

The problems arise with food or water having possibly been in touch with human excretions (fertilizers, open sewers) and there you go. This is no less a problem for Indians than it is for you so they'll also go to places where food is hygienically prepared. Maybe unconsciously so, but it works. Or it tends to

I never ever fell sick there but may have been my luck; I've known people who'd drink the local water ("makes you stronger," a theory I don't believe in) and survived; I've known others who'd only go to 5-star places and got very ill. Who's to say really.

machadinha · Nov 26th, 2006, 19:17

And please... getting off a train and seeing some fresh and crispy vadas or whatever by the roadside... buy (and eat) them!! These are the pleasures of travel. (Of course if they look like they're last week's, reconsider.)

Zeppy · Nov 26th, 2006, 19:38

I am actually not from India; I just lived there for a year a long time ago. And clearly, much has changed since! But I do love Indian food!

Thanks for the advice about picking restaurants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SANJAY_DEL

Just avoid street food, food off the railway platforms, even tap water

Isn't the food on trains food you buy off the railway platforms? I'm a train novice.

Avoiding tap water is a commonplace, but is this because it isn't chlorinated?

The egg issue did indeed just come up in another thread. There was a long discussion of salmonella and whether it is connected to typhoid. Apparently it is. The issue over eggs was whether you can trust any egg except a hard-boiled one to be thoroughly cooked.

Milk also came up in that thread; it was mentioned as something to avoid. I'm not sure what should be wrong with milk...is it unpasturized? In any case, I'd rather drink soy milk. Can you buy boxed soy milk in India?

machadinha · Nov 26th, 2006, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppy

Isn't the food on trains food you buy off the railway platforms? I'm a train novice.

It usually is yes, there may be food on board in some classes or certain trains (that they may have picked off the platforms haha. I kid you not.) Never had a problem with it (others do), ranges from the horrible to the excellent shall we say. Works like that where I live, snack food right.

Quote:

Avoiding tap water is a commonplace, but is this because it isn't chlorinated?

Hm. It's just often untrustable. Where it is it will be chlorinated and heavily so. So either way you'll be looking for bottled water. Kind of like the mediterranean.

Quote:

The egg issue did indeed just come up in another thread. There was a long discussion of salmonella and whether it is connected to typhoid. Apparently it is. The issue over eggs was whether you can trust any egg except a hard-boiled one to be thoroughly cooked.

Well yes unless you're planning on eating raw eggs which you shouldn't do at home I don't see the problem. Good proteins and all.

Quote:

Milk also came up in that thread; it was mentioned as something to avoid. I'm not sure what should be wrong with milk...is it unpasturized?

Unless it isn't it should be avoided yes. It wasn't widely available when I travelled there (what do they do with that milk? Make curd?) but I imagine it should be available now anywhere not completely off the track. Fresh milk is nice but has all the obvious dangers that started us pasteurizing it.

Quote:

In any case, I'd rather drink soy milk. Can you buy boxed soy milk in India?

Absolutely no idea. Others might.

Cheers and don't worry so much (or is that condescending?) Many many many have gone before you and they never even lived there (arguably some came running back screaming). 13,329 IM'ers can't be wrong as I like to say!

Nick-H · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:03

Just one note arising from that...

Milk... is certainly easily available. Depending on where you are it will either be ladled out of a churn into the buyer's jug by a man with a bicycle --- or pasteurised and served in plastic bags. Even here, in the centre of a big city, I have the option of buying from the lady who keeps a cow at teh end of the road.

Now... to drink it (we buy the packaged variety) or not? I say yes, it is fine to drink. My wife, born and bred here, throws up her hands in horror and says 'not without boiling'. Well, she should know: but I drink it anyway!!!!!

Most of the curd you get in restaurants will probably be home made: so you know that the milk that it was made from was boiled

Nick-H · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:11

Caught up with previous posts....

Yes, you can get Soya milk here.

Drinking Chai is something I couldn't live without, but the milk for that will be boiled anyway.

Eggs.... Salmonella is quite bad enough (seriously bad for the old and infirm). Thinking it was not connected to typhoid was my ignorance, and I was swiftly corrected. On those days when I cannot face something-with-rice yet again, I live on omelettes and even fried eggs at home. Fired eggs with soft yolk....

Water... (this is about Chennai; other big cities are probably similar....) it is chlorinated and is supposed to be drinkable at the point it leaves the plant. However, the pipes are leaky and the pressure is low, so as much stuff can leak in as leaks out. We cook and wash with tap water, but would never, never drink it unboiled.

Nick-H · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:14

BTW.... potasium permanganate used to be easily available in UK. I don't know if it still is.

You could always wash fruit with washing-up liquid!!!!!!!

I know people in UK who do that in case of pesticides, and to get rid of waxy layers on it (well, that's what they say) as well as for hygene.

I don't.

cyberhippie · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:15

Eggs no problem, things are seldom undercooked in India inluding omelettes!!

Milk is sold in pasturised sachets, sometimes it may be off though, if the power has gone down or something. Your nose will tell you that's the case. Another alternative is warm boiled milk of course which my wife regularly drinks!!

The train question varies, sometimes the meals are brought on board to be handed out. This is from a designated IR kitchens along the route not from platform vendors!!
Many long/mid distance expresses actually have a pantry car, where under enormous pressure, the cooks battle the sway of the train, rediculous heat and discomfort to cook fresh meals of Dal, Rajma along with Rice Rotis and parothas.
Over the years I've had egg Biryanis, Chicken Masala, idlis, Noodles, soup, Chicken Fry, cultlets, omelettes, Batata Vadas, dosas and a cup of chai or three all without stomach problems!!
Another option at many big stations is a packed lunch, I've had some delicious meals from canteens across India. All packed up and ready to go, another option though this means your food will be at best warm if not cold!!

cyberhippie · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:16

About the water, well it might be chlorinated but not all the water from taps will be from public sources, it may just come from a pump well and lie in a non too clean storage tank before it gets to you!!

Nick-H · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:24

...yes, that is very true.

Especially in drier cities like this one. Many a hotel will buy its water by the tankerful.

Zeppy · Nov 26th, 2006, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberhippie

The train question varies, sometimes the meals are brought on board to be handed out. This is from a designated IR kitchens along the route not from platform vendors!!
Many long/mid distance expresses actually have a pantry car, where under enormous pressure, the cooks battle the sway of the train, rediculous heat and discomfort to cook fresh meals of Dal, Rajma along with Rice Rotis and parothas.

Sounds delicious! I don't want to turn this thread in the direction of the infinitely many on trains and online bookings, but I'm wondering if there is a way to find out online if your long-distance train has one of these pantry cars. The Indianrail website is pretty labyrinthine; I haven't penetrated all its corners. We'll be on some trains for up to 25 hours, and it would certainly lift morale to be able to count on a pantry car!

Nov 26th, 2006, 17:35	#1
Zeppy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Paris Posts: 179	food? potassium permanganate? So: as a Westerner, you should avoid meat, eggs (unless hard boiled), milk, vegetables unless boiled, and fruit unless you can peel it. There goes my usual diet. What exactly can you eat safely? This may not sound like a serious question, but I'm really wondering. I remember when I lived in India with my parents they washed fresh vegetables in a reddish-purple bath called "potassium permanganate" (and, no doubt, they then rinsed these vegetables off in boiled water). Is potassium permanganate still recommended and used? We all got sick, of course--but mainly while traveling and eating in restaurants. On my upcoming trip I'll be traveling and eating in restaurants. Is there a good way to pick restaurants these days? What about the food sold on trains? Safe?

Nov 26th, 2006, 20:03	#9
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	Just one note arising from that... Milk... is certainly easily available. Depending on where you are it will either be ladled out of a churn into the buyer's jug by a man with a bicycle --- or pasteurised and served in plastic bags. Even here, in the centre of a big city, I have the option of buying from the lady who keeps a cow at teh end of the road. Now... to drink it (we buy the packaged variety) or not? I say yes, it is fine to drink. My wife, born and bred here, throws up her hands in horror and says 'not without boiling'. Well, she should know: but I drink it anyway!!!!! Most of the curd you get in restaurants will probably be home made: so you know that the milk that it was made from was boiled __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

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Nov 26th, 2006, 17:44	#2
SANJAY_DEL Account Closed Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NEW DELHI, INDIA Posts: 1,351	Potassium permanganate is mostly not available anywhere. Food prepared in hygienic conditions is just fine. And that is found in every holiday destination. Just avoid street food, food off the railway platforms, even tap water.

Nov 26th, 2006, 19:03	#4
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	Yeah eat whatever you like as Mach says, another good rule of thumb would be to eat at the proper times when the food is fresh like 6.30-8am breakfast 12-2pm Lunch 6.30-8.30pm dinner. Here you stand the best chance of getting food fresh off the hob so to speak. Perhaps leave out the salad and street stalls until your body has grown accustomed to local bacteria!! Salad is usually washed in local water!! So be extra careful there!! Meat is generally fresh and well cooked (there are few Indian dishes that require rarely cooked meat) and eggs in omelette form or indeed poached or scrambled (but well cooked) is also fine. Train food varies greatly and comes in such a variety of "healthy" states that it would be difficulty to give a one answer fits all. I've been dicky after some curd I ate on a train but never had any other problems with train food. Oh and when in a restaurant don't ever look at the "cloth" it's a nightmare not to be seen by the unaccustomed eye, an outrage of hygene, peddler of bacterias as yet unknown. pollutant of all who come into contact. Really it's better not to see it........promise!!

Nov 26th, 2006, 19:10	#5
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,917	<cross-posted with Cyber of course > More precisely (I eat fish but no meat mind): >meat I don't know. Seeing an Indian butcher's can be off-putting. I find it the same at home though. Like I said, I don't eat meat. (Esp. in the south you'll regularly get fish though with a thali or whatever. Nothing wrong with it, unless you're not a fish eater. Fresh out of the river or that's what I would say.) >eggs (unless hard boiled) This has been something that's come up here recently for some reason right? You'll find them scrambled and cooked and omeletted or whatever you like, don't worry about it. I don't eat them raw at home. >milk Not so widely available anyway if I recall. Probably you get pasteurized stuff in anywhere not completely remote, otherwise forget about it. As you'll have read on other threads curd (yoghurt) is readily available & good for the stomach. Lassi is a yoghurt drink which is likewise good. This is gonna cause this thread to turn into 300 pages about ice cubes being involved or not but should generally be OK. Ask for no ice cubes >vegetables unless boiled, You'll have a hard time not getting your veggies cooked or baked. Are you planning on cooking yourself? I didn't think so from previous enquiries. India has one of the best vegetarian cuisines in the world, you're from there right? I managed to overeat. >and fruit unless you can peel it Yes, makes sense. You can pretty much thoroughly rinse or peel or skin any fruit, so should cause little problems. The problems arise with food or water having possibly been in touch with human excretions (fertilizers, open sewers) and there you go. This is no less a problem for Indians than it is for you so they'll also go to places where food is hygienically prepared. Maybe unconsciously so, but it works. Or it tends to I never ever fell sick there but may have been my luck; I've known people who'd drink the local water ("makes you stronger," a theory I don't believe in) and survived; I've known others who'd only go to 5-star places and got very ill. Who's to say really.

Nov 26th, 2006, 19:17	#6
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 10,917	And please... getting off a train and seeing some fresh and crispy vadas or whatever by the roadside... buy (and eat) them!! These are the pleasures of travel. (Of course if they look like they're last week's, reconsider.)

Nov 26th, 2006, 20:11	#10
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	Caught up with previous posts.... Yes, you can get Soya milk here. Drinking Chai is something I couldn't live without, but the milk for that will be boiled anyway. Eggs.... Salmonella is quite bad enough (seriously bad for the old and infirm). Thinking it was not connected to typhoid was my ignorance, and I was swiftly corrected. On those days when I cannot face something-with-rice yet again, I live on omelettes and even fried eggs at home. Fired eggs with soft yolk.... Water... (this is about Chennai; other big cities are probably similar....) it is chlorinated and is supposed to be drinkable at the point it leaves the plant. However, the pipes are leaky and the pressure is low, so as much stuff can leak in as leaks out. We cook and wash with tap water, but would never, never drink it unboiled.

Nov 26th, 2006, 20:14	#11
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	BTW.... potasium permanganate used to be easily available in UK. I don't know if it still is. You could always wash fruit with washing-up liquid!!!!!!! I know people in UK who do that in case of pesticides, and to get rid of waxy layers on it (well, that's what they say) as well as for hygene. I don't.

Nov 26th, 2006, 20:15	#12
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	Eggs no problem, things are seldom undercooked in India inluding omelettes!! Milk is sold in pasturised sachets, sometimes it may be off though, if the power has gone down or something. Your nose will tell you that's the case. Another alternative is warm boiled milk of course which my wife regularly drinks!! The train question varies, sometimes the meals are brought on board to be handed out. This is from a designated IR kitchens along the route not from platform vendors!! Many long/mid distance expresses actually have a pantry car, where under enormous pressure, the cooks battle the sway of the train, rediculous heat and discomfort to cook fresh meals of Dal, Rajma along with Rice Rotis and parothas. Over the years I've had egg Biryanis, Chicken Masala, idlis, Noodles, soup, Chicken Fry, cultlets, omelettes, Batata Vadas, dosas and a cup of chai or three all without stomach problems!! Another option at many big stations is a packed lunch, I've had some delicious meals from canteens across India. All packed up and ready to go, another option though this means your food will be at best warm if not cold!!

Nov 26th, 2006, 20:16	#13
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	About the water, well it might be chlorinated but not all the water from taps will be from public sources, it may just come from a pump well and lie in a non too clean storage tank before it gets to you!!

Nov 26th, 2006, 20:24	#14
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	...yes, that is very true. Especially in drier cities like this one. Many a hotel will buy its water by the tankerful.

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