Is crime in India far below UK? BBC

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#1 Jan 10th, 2010, 02:31
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#1
An Indian man was stabbed to death when he came to rescue of a woman who was mugged, read the BBC link and Police link below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8450052.stm
http://spotcrime.com/uk/london scroll to bottom of the London map.
#2 Jan 10th, 2010, 02:42
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The dilemna and tragedy of the good samaritan..
#3 Jan 10th, 2010, 03:06
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Sunder, according to your thread title, it seems you want to make the point that there is less crime in India than in UK.

You attach a story of an Indian man being murdered (a good samaritan, as edwardseco says; a very sad story) in London.

OK, it is a sad story, but this has nothing at all to do with crime levels anywhere.

I don't see how this is relevant to the Goa section, or even to this entire forum.
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#4 Jan 10th, 2010, 03:11
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<cross-posted with Nick>

Just awful!

But I wouldn't say you can compare crime statistics between a country like Britian, which keeps accurate records and a country like India which doesn't. Not because they don't want to, but because it's probably nearly impossible.

Even the definition of crime can be different. Some things are not crimes in one place (no such thing as "eve teasing") but are crimes in another. It is not a crime in UK to be a homosexual, but it was in India until July 2009.

Get my meaning? Apples & Oranges. Can't really say crime in India is far below UK. There is no way to prove this.

That said, I feel quite safe in India. But I also feel safe in the UK
#5 Jan 10th, 2010, 06:19
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Very good point Camelgirl. I was thinking that of all the crime I knew of in the villages I visited hardly any of it was ever reported..
#6 Jan 10th, 2010, 14:51
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my dad used to work as a foreman before he retired, we have a large Indian population in the gulf, so my dad used to work with a lot of Indians, and he used to say "treat and Indian with respect, and you will get a loyal worker".

could the crime in India or goa be caused by lack of respect? i guess some tourists do act like they are gods among men. and that would just fuel hate, and once u get hate you get a justification for robbery and other crimes.

i could be wrong, but at the end of the day, i still think that what goes around, comes around. (karma)
Last edited by Anarchist-Li; Jan 10th, 2010 at 14:54.. Reason: speeling (as usual)
#7 Jan 10th, 2010, 15:06
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Not only does a lot of crime go unreported, but police also refuse to accept reports of crime.

The amount of crime reported in the newspapers, to my admittedly objective view, is considerably more than it was just a few years ago. For instance, I never used to read of street crime, ie muggings, but now they are reported every day. There is also the nastier side of "family" life, the abuse, rapes, violence, which used to be completely unreported, but is now in the papers.

Whatever we see, we can be sure that it is the tip of the iceberg.

It is still true that I feel safer on the streets of Chennai than I do in London. In London, for instance, I would consider it stupid to use my expensive mobile phone in a crowded street. One of the reasons for my perceived safety, however, is that I am not the likely target. Theft of mobile phones, cameras, etc, is happening, but the target is jewellery; the gold chains worn by Indian women are the easy target, and most easily converted to cash.

<cross-posted with Anarchist-Li>

I am speaking about India in general, or, more accurately, the particular urban corner of India with which I have some familiarity. The stories of crime, violence, etc, that I read in the newspapers very, very seldom feature foreigners/tourists. I'm sure that those parts of India which have a large tourist population have criminals that prey on that population. Most things have their place in the food chain! As to the behaviour of said tourists, common theft is not a hate crime, but a crime of poverty or greed. Respect has nothing to do with it, and will not protect your pockets from the thief.
#8 Jan 10th, 2010, 15:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post Respect has nothing to do with it, and will not protect your pockets from the thief.
will i do agree with most of what u said, except for the quoted part.

a true story, the guy who cleans my car is an Indian guy who cleans cars from 4-5am to 8am, and then goes n to do his regular job, the guy is obviously poor, i always say "good morning and thank you" when i c him.
one day i got up early to go to work and he was there, he came to me and asked me if i dropped any money in my car, i said no, so he handed me a 20 dianrs bill (2411 rupees) and said he found it under the seat.
now the guy could have taken it, but did not!!

i do agree a small number of crimes in india have to do with tourists, but i guess eliminating even a small part would be a step ahead. and i still think that if us tourists behaved ourselves then crimes against tourists would decrease.
#9 Jan 10th, 2010, 15:42
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Your driver was not a thief. I remember an occasion when, in the dark, I gave a taxi driver Rs500 notes instead of Rs100 notes. He could have made a very substantial profit, but he told me what I had done --- even though I had not been very nice to him over a few things.

The fact that someone who was not a thief did not steal from you is just not relevant. I could tell you of thieves who were treated very well.

India is not immune, in any way whatever, from any of the aspects of human nature. If there is something nasty in the world, you will find it here too. Where there are people with money, there will be people who steal from them. Where there are sheep, expect ticks; where there are dogs, expect fleas.

Goa is, perhaps, a special case within India, with a much more complex human eco-system and probably a higher number of non-locals among the predators.
#10 Jan 10th, 2010, 15:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post Not only does a lot of crime go unreported, but police also refuse to accept reports of crime.
Very true. According to some estimates almost 90% of criminal cases go unreported because of the local police who refuse to file an FIR.

I will now proceed to give you a very relevant example.

A European tourist who is holidaying in Goa has his laptop stolen from his room. He proceeds to the nearest police station to make an official complaint. He reaches the police station and tells the person on duty that he wants to file a complaint.

The conversation will be something like this,

Tourist - Sir, I would like to file a comnplaint.

Police - About what?

Tourist - My laptop was stolen

Police - From where?

Tourist - From the beach hut where I am staying.

Police - Hmmmmm... Did you see any one steal it? Do you have any witnesses?

Tourist - No sir. I had gone to the beach and when I returned the laptop was missing.

Police - I see. This means that you may have lost it somehere.

Tourist - Sir, I am very sure that I did not lose it because I did not take it out of the beach hut.

Police - What proof do you have that you left it in the beac hut?

Tourist - I am sorry but I have no proof because I am staying alone in the beach hut.

Police - Because there is no proof, there is no possibility of filing a complaint stating that a burglary has taken place. I can only file that you have misplaced your laptop.

Tourist - (Thinks for a few minutes and comes to the conclusion that getting a report saying that the laptop is missing will be enough to claim insurance in his/her home country. No report = No insurance claim)

OK. I am satisfied with a report which says that the laptop is missing.

Police - (Broad smile on the face). Just be seated I will get the typist to make the report.

Tourist - No problem. I will wait. He/She gets the report after a while and leaves.

Police - Phones his immediate superior. Sir, a foreigner had come to file a burglary complaint.

Senior officer - What????? Did you make the stupid mistake of accepting it?

Police - No sir, I filed the report as "missing computer".

Senior officer - Good work! Keep it up! I do not want to have ANY burglary in my jurisdiction. I have to make sure that nothing comes in the way of my promotion. My area has to be shown to be crime free!

Police - Of course sir!
#11 Jan 10th, 2010, 16:07
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#11
Suner, it's a very very tragic death of a good samaritan. But where are you getting these figures from? You've also stated the same in another thread, Link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post It is still true that I feel safer on the streets of Chennai than I do in London. In London, for instance, I would consider it stupid to use my expensive mobile phone in a crowded street. One of the reasons for my perceived safety, however, is that I am not the likely target. Theft of mobile phones, cameras, etc, is happening, but the target is jewellery; the gold chains worn by Indian women are the easy target, and most easily converted to cash.
I have lived in London all my life and of course crime happens, however, I have never felt unsafe using my iPhone anywhere, and I live near an area that has a high crime rate in London. Targeting Indian women for their jewellery used to happen long long time back and is unheard of now, and is much rarer than it is perceived. My mother in her 70s feels far more safer wearing her gold chain in Harlesden(an area in London with higher crime rate) than getting off flight and waiting to board a train at Mumbai Central. Though again, it is her perception of crime and not her experience.

Suner, you sent a link to Spot Crime website where crime is recorded from Police database. If you study to see numbers of crime taken place in last three months in Greater London area of over 10 million people, number are far smaller than you think.
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#12 Jan 10th, 2010, 17:06
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I just came from another BBC report
Quote:
New figures show a 26% decline in gun crime, 12% drop in knife crime and a 17% reduction in robbery in 2008 compared with 2007 figures.
I lived more than thirty years in London, and I would not have used an i-phone in certain places --- but there has always been a big gap between the perception of risk and the actual risk. For instance, the old fear street crime more than the young do, but the young are more likely to be its victims.

Not sure if you read my comment about chain snatching as referring to London? Just to emphasise... I was talking about India.
Quote:
Suner, you sent a link to Spot Crime website where [London] crime is recorded from Police database.
... but gave no equivalent for any part of India. Your assertion is either your own perception (which, as I've said, can be very wrong) or completely fictional.
#13 Jan 10th, 2010, 17:17
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#13
After the posts here so far, I've changed the thread title (from "Crime in India is far below UK BBC") - but say the word, and I'll change it back again
#14 Jan 10th, 2010, 17:47
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Suits me. May not suit Sunder, though, depending on his reasoning behind the title.

My answer to the new title is, "I don't know, but I seriously doubt it".

I think that part of the perception of India as being very low crime is that most visitors know very little about what goes on here, and what life for the ordinary Indian is actually like. Many of them will not even open a newspaper here.

Before I get jumped on for saying this, let me add that, yes, I know first-hand reports of village life where doors are not locked --- but I'm told that the valuables (if any) store will be.
#15 Jan 10th, 2010, 18:20
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#15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post
I think that part of the perception of India as being very low crime is that most visitors know very little about what goes on here, and what life for the ordinary Indian is actually like.
i guess thats true, i do know that a big number of ppl in india live under the poverty line, but still, knowing is one thing, and living surrounded by it is something else.

i dont disagree with ur post, but at least crime comes from need, and not from fear or hate like other parts of the world.

example: with all due respect to americans, im sure you guys r cool, but, u probably know tha some are not, being an arab im concerned about traveling to the US, i have a friend who has been called names there, so for now at least i would say that i feel safer traveling to india than the US.

get my point?
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