How to expose Corruption and Bribery ?

Nick-H · Nov 23rd, 2007, 13:47

Thanks Vandy... I just read my newspapers every day, and hear some other stories about property disputes that end up in court. And, of course, I'm in TN, but I'm given to understand that Goa is not going to be very different.

We've seen in the property threads how many people have suffered the illusion that the formalities of deeds, registration, and so on, offer some sort of government-backed guarantee, or work in any way like they do in UK. Finding out otherwise was painful.

I've met decent government officers, I've met decent policemen --- and there is the story here from Brownboy (I think it was) that the Delhi police actually recovered his property. We cannot say anything is 100% bad. However, often, I'm afraid that 'law and order' in India is the servant of money and politics.

Hyderabadi · Nov 23rd, 2007, 14:45

Now, if I may ask what do I do do to continue to protect my existing property in Hyderabad?

No, Capt. I already have a lawyer -- a childhood - dormitorymate - langotiyaar - jigri dost matter of fact. He refuses anything in kind, he is too kind really.

Dellon · Nov 23rd, 2007, 20:47

I am aware of all the comments and opinions that have been expressed, I was still hoping that with all your wealth of knowledge(IM'ers) that a few pointers in the direction of anti-corruption bodies would be a great help.

Newspapers?
Advocates?
Politicians?

Are there any crusaders?

Nick-H · Nov 23rd, 2007, 22:42

1. newspapers are likely to be owned by the politicians.

2. Only concerned with getting the rate for the hour

3. First find your incorrupt politician.

Sorry.

There are some ways in which the experience of this amazing country is similar to putting both feet in a cow pat. You know, one of those ones that is just old enough to have formed a crust on the surface and become even more revolting inside.

What to do? Wash your feet...

patti123 · Nov 23rd, 2007, 22:55

Newspapers?
Advocates?
Politicians?

I cant see you finding any body from the above that will want to help.If they say they will ,its because they want to rip more money off you.
You need to find more people like you ,that have been cheated and see what they are doing.
The best place to look is in Goa. if you have bought a apartment in a block, you cant be the only one in the block that been ripped off.

edwardseco · Nov 24th, 2007, 00:34

Quote:

When a traveller once complained of Too Many DOGS
in Goa,Which variety do you think he was Referring
to, The 4 legged ones or the 2 legged ones.

Rosanstein Rodan once said it was the 2 legged rats that were the obstacle to development not the 4 legged variety..

keithpoonam · Nov 24th, 2007, 00:39

Hi Dellon
Last year when I was in north, NDTV- delhi TV station, had a daily programme reporting all scams, bribery, dowry etc,etc and they were asking the public to report. Maybe a Delhi IMers could find out more for you.
poonam

rushie82 · Nov 24th, 2007, 00:43

Ok i also think it is not worth it but anyway i want to help u so....

First make sure u urself have not done anything wrong. Are u sure that u or somebody on ur behalf has not given any bribe? HAve u overstayed ur visa? basically make sure u havent broken any rules urself. Coz if u do anything and they find something on u it could be that u end up in jail and the guy with contacts gets away with it. First of all if u need any info abt what exactly is actual procedure or where ur papres are or has any procedure started in ur name regarding property or the actual owner of the property in question, u can file what is called an RTI(right to information) application. It opens up all goverment files for ur any info u want. I have been told that u get good accurate info with it (no personal experience). After u get all the info that u need u can take help of some experienced goan who has gone through it and ask for direction on whether to proceed further or not.

If you find lots of goans like u with same problem u can all contact news channels and there is good chance they will put ur story on air.

See if somebody duped u and gave u bogus property papres and took ur money, u might get that man arrested after long battle but might not get ur money back. Best of luck

Dellon · Nov 24th, 2007, 02:24

Thanks Rushie82

Firstly I need to check the information on the registration of my deeds, the nature in how they were submitted as this was not done by myself.

Is that possible and what department would I require with the link below?

http://egov.goa.nic.in/rtipublic/

patti123 · Nov 24th, 2007, 02:31

Dellon. Did you do your 182 days to be able to buy your apartment ?

Dellon · Nov 24th, 2007, 02:39

No Patti123, they were handed to me before I had chance to do the 182/3 days on my arrival.

patti123 · Nov 24th, 2007, 02:54

Dellon. Oh god well someone slipped up there.I know if i was cheated out of a apartment i would want to do something about it .
I think you need to go to Goa, go to the places the British drink/eat and ask around to see if anyone else has the same problem .You can then see what they are doing about it.
Good luck with what ever you do.

Mind you i have so many British people that bought apartments without doing the 181 days cause the Advocate/builder said it would be ok we can get round that law !I wonder how they are getting on now with the apartments they have bought .

machadinha · Nov 24th, 2007, 03:34

Am I the only one having a déjà vu experience here? To my best knowledge there is no 180 days+ rule,* as no visa allows you to stay for longer. It's a red herring that some self-fulfilling prophecy makers seem to have cooked up.

I'm ready to stand corrected though, but I've never heard anything to the contrary, despite my plentiful questions to that effect. I don't know the details of all those protracted multiple X-visas for a few nationalities, but as far as I know you can go in and out of the country all you like (provided no one stops you) but those 180 days will just start counting again, there's no way to prolong it.

* Or rather there is one, but this relates solely to internal fiscal regulations, it has absolutely no bearing on your right of stay as a would-be immigrant. You can't overstay your 180 days and be eligible for anything. As apparently you're simply not allowed to overstay those 180 days. Those few nationalities who can may be able to use their extended multiple thingy visa to re-enter, or you can apply abroad for a new one, but either way it will be precisely that: a new visa. It doesn't legally extend your period of stay in India.

All of this and much more is covered already on those abovementioned Goan Property threads

patti123 · Nov 24th, 2007, 03:57

Quote:

To my best knowledge there is no 180 days+ rule,* as no visa allows you to stay for longer.

I had a 1 year visa for the reason so i could buy a apartment , you have to be in India for 182 or3 days to buy a property .

machadinha · Nov 24th, 2007, 04:12

Yes, many seem to do. But did it entitle you to anything more than twice a 180-days stay?

You see, this is the question I've never yet heard an answer to. I have the strong impression people are fooling themselves with the way these visas work. (In any country they're generally designed to regulate foreign traffic btw, not to allow people to stay there if only they can find a way to stretch the rules.)

And as has been pointed out so often, getting your deed fixed is something else entirely than having it (or you) be legal. That's simply not what the people doing that for you are about, they're very different departments. They'll just check if that purchase meets the regulations governing it, and it well may, they won't care if you want to throw your money away, nor are they immigrations officers.

Again, from all I've heard those 180 days have to do with fiscal regulations. Not with your right to stay. You have no right to stay for longer than 180 days. (How come I'm feeling like a broken record here?) I don't get why people feel finding a way to buy a house will grant them residential status, it doesn't anywhere else in the world (although there are other places where expats are beset by the same complaints).

If I'm wrong, I'd really like to hear it, so we can settle this dispute once and for all.

Nov 23rd, 2007, 13:47	#31
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 28,420	Thanks Vandy... I just read my newspapers every day, and hear some other stories about property disputes that end up in court. And, of course, I'm in TN, but I'm given to understand that Goa is not going to be very different. We've seen in the property threads how many people have suffered the illusion that the formalities of deeds, registration, and so on, offer some sort of government-backed guarantee, or work in any way like they do in UK. Finding out otherwise was painful. I've met decent government officers, I've met decent policemen --- and there is the story here from Brownboy (I think it was) that the Delhi police actually recovered his property. We cannot say anything is 100% bad. However, often, I'm afraid that 'law and order' in India is the servant of money and politics. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Nov 24th, 2007, 00:39	#37
keithpoonam Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: uk Posts: 27	Hi Dellon Last year when I was in north, NDTV- delhi TV station, had a daily programme reporting all scams, bribery, dowry etc,etc and they were asking the public to report. Maybe a Delhi IMers could find out more for you. poonam __________________ Keith

Nov 24th, 2007, 03:34	#43
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 11,445	Am I the only one having a déjà vu experience here? To my best knowledge there is no 180 days+ rule,* as no visa allows you to stay for longer. It's a red herring that some self-fulfilling prophecy makers seem to have cooked up. I'm ready to stand corrected though, but I've never heard anything to the contrary, despite my plentiful questions to that effect. I don't know the details of all those protracted multiple X-visas for a few nationalities, but as far as I know you can go in and out of the country all you like (provided no one stops you) but those 180 days will just start counting again, there's no way to prolong it. * Or rather there is one, but this relates solely to internal fiscal regulations, it has absolutely no bearing on your right of stay as a would-be immigrant. You can't overstay your 180 days and be eligible for anything. As apparently you're simply not allowed to overstay those 180 days. Those few nationalities who can may be able to use their extended multiple thingy visa to re-enter, or you can apply abroad for a new one, but either way it will be precisely that: a new visa. It doesn't legally extend your period of stay in India. All of this and much more is covered already on those abovementioned Goan Property threads __________________ Reading tips, all picked up at IndiaMike : INDAX's A Comprehensive Guide To India / Dinoj Surendran's Desi Humor / ITHVC on Culture Shock & Travel Health / JetLag Travel Guides For the Undiscerning Traveller / India Travel Links

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Nov 23rd, 2007, 14:45	#32
Hyderabadi Maha Guru Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: GA,USA. Posts: 1,131	Now, if I may ask what do I do do to continue to protect my existing property in Hyderabad? No, Capt. I already have a lawyer -- a childhood - dormitorymate - langotiyaar - jigri dost matter of fact. He refuses anything in kind, he is too kind really.

Nov 23rd, 2007, 20:47	#33
Dellon Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Goa Posts: 18	I am aware of all the comments and opinions that have been expressed, I was still hoping that with all your wealth of knowledge(IM'ers) that a few pointers in the direction of anti-corruption bodies would be a great help. Newspapers? Advocates? Politicians? Are there any crusaders?

Nov 23rd, 2007, 22:42	#34
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 28,420	1. newspapers are likely to be owned by the politicians. 2. Only concerned with getting the rate for the hour 3. First find your incorrupt politician. Sorry. There are some ways in which the experience of this amazing country is similar to putting both feet in a cow pat. You know, one of those ones that is just old enough to have formed a crust on the surface and become even more revolting inside. What to do? Wash your feet...

Nov 23rd, 2007, 22:55	#35
patti123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 476	Newspapers? Advocates? Politicians? I cant see you finding any body from the above that will want to help.If they say they will ,its because they want to rip more money off you. You need to find more people like you ,that have been cheated and see what they are doing. The best place to look is in Goa. if you have bought a apartment in a block, you cant be the only one in the block that been ripped off.

Nov 24th, 2007, 00:43	#38
rushie82 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: India Posts: 76	Ok i also think it is not worth it but anyway i want to help u so.... First make sure u urself have not done anything wrong. Are u sure that u or somebody on ur behalf has not given any bribe? HAve u overstayed ur visa? basically make sure u havent broken any rules urself. Coz if u do anything and they find something on u it could be that u end up in jail and the guy with contacts gets away with it. First of all if u need any info abt what exactly is actual procedure or where ur papres are or has any procedure started in ur name regarding property or the actual owner of the property in question, u can file what is called an RTI(right to information) application. It opens up all goverment files for ur any info u want. I have been told that u get good accurate info with it (no personal experience). After u get all the info that u need u can take help of some experienced goan who has gone through it and ask for direction on whether to proceed further or not. If you find lots of goans like u with same problem u can all contact news channels and there is good chance they will put ur story on air. See if somebody duped u and gave u bogus property papres and took ur money, u might get that man arrested after long battle but might not get ur money back. Best of luck

Nov 24th, 2007, 02:24	#39
Dellon Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Goa Posts: 18	Thanks Rushie82 Firstly I need to check the information on the registration of my deeds, the nature in how they were submitted as this was not done by myself. Is that possible and what department would I require with the link below? http://egov.goa.nic.in/rtipublic/

Nov 24th, 2007, 02:31	#40
patti123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 476	Dellon. Did you do your 182 days to be able to buy your apartment ?

Nov 24th, 2007, 02:39	#41
Dellon Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Goa Posts: 18	No Patti123, they were handed to me before I had chance to do the 182/3 days on my arrival.

Nov 24th, 2007, 02:54	#42
patti123 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 476	Dellon. Oh god well someone slipped up there.I know if i was cheated out of a apartment i would want to do something about it . I think you need to go to Goa, go to the places the British drink/eat and ask around to see if anyone else has the same problem .You can then see what they are doing about it. Good luck with what ever you do. Mind you i have so many British people that bought apartments without doing the 181 days cause the Advocate/builder said it would be ok we can get round that law !I wonder how they are getting on now with the apartments they have bought .

Nov 24th, 2007, 04:12	#45
machadinha Not Your Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: yörp Posts: 11,445	Yes, many seem to do. But did it entitle you to anything more than twice a 180-days stay? You see, this is the question I've never yet heard an answer to. I have the strong impression people are fooling themselves with the way these visas work. (In any country they're generally designed to regulate foreign traffic btw, not to allow people to stay there if only they can find a way to stretch the rules.) And as has been pointed out so often, getting your deed fixed is something else entirely than having it (or you) be legal. That's simply not what the people doing that for you are about, they're very different departments. They'll just check if that purchase meets the regulations governing it, and it well may, they won't care if you want to throw your money away, nor are they immigrations officers. Again, from all I've heard those 180 days have to do with fiscal regulations. Not with your right to stay. You have no right to stay for longer than 180 days. (How come I'm feeling like a broken record here?) I don't get why people feel finding a way to buy a house will grant them residential status, it doesn't anywhere else in the world (although there are other places where expats are beset by the same complaints). If I'm wrong, I'd really like to hear it, so we can settle this dispute once and for all.

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