How greedy can they get?.

Cayle

As a foreigner, I’ll offer a counter argument to Poni’s point. It is not about flaunting wealth. It is about not wanting to “be a cheapskate” with a poor (not as poor as a beggar or coolie, but still poor) person. I’ve bargained over that last ten rupees with auto drivers before. Afterwards, it made me want to shower.

The flip side cheap taxi and auto rides is taxi and auto drivers living in poverty. Jeez, rent is 4000 RS a month in this city in the working class neghborhoods. Then they have to buy food and then pay to send their kids to school; but I guess everyone having bargains on taxi rides is more important.

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Nick-H

I do not know Goa, but I know the PR that some of the drivers dole out to tourists here and in some other cities, and how the foreigners lap it up.

Driving is not a bad job. Drivers are not poor.

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kmalik

Thank you Cayle! Very well put, and my sentiments exactly. I, too, have on occasions bargained (to not be taken for a sucker) only to feel awful about it afterward.

While Pony and crv are looking at one side of it - there are multiple ways of looking at the situation. Wealthier/more generous tourists have two effects: The positive one is that they bring more money into the economy and benefit those directly engaged in serving them; the negative one is that they can drive the price of the services, real estate, etc. higher - and there are winners and losers in that.

Like it or not, that's the way the economy works. Want to influence it one way or the other - make different choices as a consumer. Patronize some other area - and Goans will either shape up when faced with slack in demand, or they'll find other demand to replace your consumption. Either way, lecturing others to follow your value system isn't the answer.

Nick - cross posted! Poverty is all relative, isn't it. I've heard enough of the Indian sentiment - the poor aren't really poor, they have ... I must admit it does leave me sad.

crvlvr

Cayle, I agree with you. I don't as we say in the US, "nickel and diming" the vendors. But, what if the vendor's rate is just ludicrous?

I've been laughed at by Indian friends when I overpaid by a few rupees. But, to their defense most of them negotiate more on principle than the amount (especially when the amount is small) ) have seem millionaires refuse to pay Rs2 more than they needed to. their argument is, "if every one pays Rs10 more than the guy will start jack up his rates by Rs 10". Another argument is that there are millions of unemployed in India. If he does not want to do it for this price, some one else will.

This attitude, and time spent in bargaining/negotiating, is worked into their daily schedule -- and women are usually better at it. So much so, the vendors expect it. And if one pays without negotiating, the vendor thinks he has stumbled across a foolish customer. And the customer thinks he is being seen as generous. the right thing to do is to negotiate down and then pay more , or let the driver keep the change, at the end of the trip. He will really appreciate it then.

kmalik

This I completely agree with. Often do that - just to keep my bargaining skills up!

Nick-H

yes, poverty is relative, but there is so much awful, dreadful, grinding poverty in India that I find it sad that people insist on shoving money into the hands of those who already have a lower-middle-class income and life.

Gametotravel

The prices I quoted and the situation were pertaining to before the price hikes! I do not know of current prices or what it will be next season but all the best!

Also do you live and work in India?

If you do then this throws this discussion wide open!

crvlvr

IMHO, collective greed is a hallmark of a capitalist society. just look at what the oil producers are doing? Is it really costing that $140/barrel to pump that oil? For whatever reason, (I would too if the $ were going into my pocket) they have decided to jack up the rates and the demand continues to support the higher price.

Even publicly traded oil companies are reporting record profits. Why is that? Because people are paying the higher price and are unwilling to change their short term consumption behavior. Another way to combat high prices (especially when they are resulting in high profits) is to regulate the price. Now the govt in India has tried to regulated petrol prices and it led to supply shortfalls.

We are left with the same options in dealing with high taxi prices in Goa. We can change our behavior as consumers. Refuse to board taxis when the price is too expensive (e.g all those people who are complaining that they paid Rs200 for a 2km jaunt should try walking instead) Paying the Rs 200 and complaining taxi drivers are greedy is hardly helps solve anything.

Or, the govt can crack down on the rip off artists.. Now, why should they? Who do think votes for the govt official? The tourists? This is capitalism and democracy in action.

Nick-H

Yes, charge what the market will pay; while the market pays it it can't complain.

However, the market is composed of individuals, and the refusal to pay by one person alone will just see them left at the side of the road while others pay what is asked.

The government can have an influence where there is a pre-paid booth situation, but the use, or lack of use, of auto-rickshaw meters in many cities demonstrates that the government will have little influence unless it is prepared to back up law with action. And your point as to who votes for them is very apt.

But, if it is not just one customer who refuses to pay, if it starts to become a regular event, then the machine moves away from what-the-market-will-stand, back to a supply and demand model (mixed metaphors, and not too good at this sort of thing...).

So I'd say that it is not down to the government to make a difference, it is down to the customer to make a difference.

And that starts when people stop saying 'it's only Rs500, what's that to us?'.

By the way; the government still regulates fuel prices, and, I understand, state-owned fuel companies operate under a large loss, but there is no supply shortfall.

kmalik

I agree with almost all of what Nick says. It is down to the individual consumers making the right personal trade-offs between the value/utility of the services provided and prices charged. And, those include looking for service alternatives (including self-service - as in walking ) and seeking alternative locales, where possible.

The only part I disagree with is: 'And that starts when people stop saying 'it's only Rs500, what's that to us?' First of all, it you are going to wait for that to happen - you will be waiting for a long time. Second, accepting the obvious fact that you have two segments of demand: a segment of demand that values the service highly or Rs. poorly(the 500Rs. customer), and a value-conscious segment. There are two possibilities: either high-price consumer segment is big enough to consume all or near all of the service capacity - or, there is excess capacity. In such a case, the market mechanisms ought to emerge (say, shared rides, gypsy cabs anyone?) that attempt to satisfy the lower priced segment demand.

Nick-H

Well, I agree with almost all of what kmallik says !

Except that I don't necessarily see the service-conscious and value-concious attitudes as being mutually exclusive. The local Indian customer may value the services of a driver in an unfamiliar location very highly, but they also value their rupee highly too.

Perhaps too many tourists are just too keen to throw those notes around, making sure that the market focuses on them, which brings us back to the point made by a previous poster: who, then, are the greedy ones?

I guess that one cannot blame the suppliers for putting money in their pockets when it is waved in their face.

goangoangone

Maybe I should have mentioned that many of the greedy MLAs here own fleets of taxis and the drivers must pay high rentals to operate. Accordingly, taxi drivers are beyond the law.

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old man

Goangone - this is what a lot of people do not understand on this thread - it is a goa thread - not for all india.

We both know that taxi's from the next village only 1 mile away from Candolim were stopped from trading in Candolim last season -and why because the MLA said so AND.............. WHO owns a lot of the taxi's !!!!!!!

Who ever started this thread did not want a lecture on the economics of india. He was just stating how greedy some of the Goans had got. We are all expecting an increase, in line with inflation, BUT the same for all, whether it be taxi's shops, resturants, shacks etc. Not one price for one, and another price for others.

Nick-H

MLAs owning taxis in Goa; police owning auto-rickshaws in Chennai...

Fine, the focus may be on Goa, the problem is more widespread. Whether the OP wanted a lecture on economics is not really the point; any debate on costs, prices, values etc is going to have such overtones, that's what economics is about.

poni

i agree with the most of your views. you may be/and sometimes are correct about economics/politics inflation /poverty etc but for a moment consider this --


we 4 people from bangalore went a nice little town in north-west karnataka, its a very calm town and it is untouched by the 'capitalism' or the city waves, which is why we visited in the first place.

There was this very nice bar which also served the very best local fare.obviously the best place in that very small town.

when we checked the prices on the menu we were shocked because the prices were unbelivably LOW compared to what we've been used to pay in bangalore without even thinking.

There was this small 'kid'(lets not get into the child labor thing) and a person of our age who were our waiters. They did an excellent job. they made us feel like kings. super fast service and excellent food.

when came the bill, we could not believe it either. After 2 hours of binging from the 4 of us. the bill was only 300 !!

I saw the people at the other tables who were paying at the max 10/20 for tips on huge bills.(like the people who came by group of >8/10) or paying very very little and still being unsatisfied with their service.

But one of my generous friend insisted we tip 200 rupee. just 50 rupee on each of us. because HE was very happy and this would have cost us more than 1000 inr in any 'normal' bangalore hotel and the waiters looked poor.
---

our group decide to tip 200, 100 of it secretly to the kid waiter- because I was sure, somebody would fleece the money off him, had anybody seen the kid receiving it.

Also ,am sure ,with the infrastructure available in the town and the avenues available to spend that money, i would only be sponsoring drinks/cig/pan masala and what-not to whoever got that tip and rest assured that they will pounce on you when you/or anybody like you arrive in the town next time.


i dont wish to name the place/town for i fear one more place would be destroyed due to senseless commerce and i would not enjoy going there anymore. but whether or not i do, i know someone else will or its already screwed when i go there next time.


[I also know many of you come here/ came here in search of peace /tranquility/ cheap party and what-not and today are the same complaining they dont get here anymore/its costly/ greed etc etc etc.]


no wonder, people and the govt look at foreigner/and today the It sector of bangalore like someone with fat pockets that come here to blow and screw up the place or at best, a means of making a lot of 'easy' money .

It would interesting to know how you and/or anybody that is complaining of 'greed' today would have behaved in that situation