How greedy can they get?.

goangoangone

No waiters or barmen are paid much here. 1200/1500 per month is common. I know one waiter personally who has just chucked his job as he hasn't been paid for 2 months. They keep the tips though.

I know many places where dual pricing policy exists.

The point with taxi drivers is that they will not turn on the meter.

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goangoangone

When I first came here nearly 4 years ago, I only had a hired scooter as transport. For the first 8 months I used taxis for longer journeys or when it rained until I got an X visa and a Residents Permit and bought a car.
Whenever possible I used the same driver. He was a nice guy, his English was good and he was helpful and honest. I went to Panjim and Porvorim many times (FRO & Home Dept.). I used him for tourist trips. airport runs and I recommended him to friends. I still used him for some journeys after I bought the car. I visited his house a few times. One day he said to me "my wife and I were talking last night and she thinks because you are such a good customer that we should give you a discount".
In March 2006 I had an accident on my Bullet. I dislocated a shoulder. As a consequence I was unable to drive. I was using rickshas to do a 3 km journey quite regularly. The drivers would come from Colva and drop me back there. Rs.60+10 tip. One day, my regular drivers were busy. I phoned my old friend. He took me to Colva. "How much"? "Rs.200, or you can give
me less". No, I said, "you have 200". I thanked him, walked away and immediately deleted his number.
I hadn't previously thought he was stupid, so would it be greed?

Cayle

Long cab rides in Europe are expensive for everyone, not just tourists. It is simply the cost of labor and that German driver costs €50/hr for his time. This is why people take trains and busses.

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kmalik

Thanks for explaining that; I hadn't realized that.

If you read what I wrote - you would have understood that I was referring to personal experience where cabbies have taken longer than straight route with a 'foreigner' as the passenger, supposedly unaware of the direct route. I happen to have plenty of experience with cabs in London, Glasgow, Brussels, Berlin and Munich and a few other in major cities in the course of my business consulting career. And, I wan't complaining the cost of the cabs - only about being taken on merry-go-around a few times when visiting clients; and, I found out when that happened as one repeats the commute from the hotel to the client a few times.

My point was that some poor cabbie in Goa - working for a heck of a lot less than 50 Euros / hr is being labeled greedy for trying to drive a favorable bargain, with folks wondering about whether he confesses this to his maker when the same folks would not bat an eye for, say, 50 Euro / hr for the time of the driver.

I do not have problems not liking the dynamics with the bargaining and pricing in Goa/India (and I myself don't), I do have a problem with people freely tossing labels like greed in this context when they'd not in a Western context.

goangoangone

Bargaining is perfectly acceptable throughout Goa. It also the law that taxis and rickshas use meters. None of them do. They are like a mafia. How would you like it when you agree a price on a journey and on completion they ask for, or even demand, more money?

capt_mahajan

I agree with kmalik. I have been cheated by cabbies in all corners of the Eastern and Western world with the roundabout routes.

old man

This happened to us last year - a taxi driver we had used for years, same as Goangoangone - ate at his house helped the family. We were so hurt and disgusted, we paid up - but will never use him again. It was a very bad end to what had been a brilliant day. It is his loss there are more taxi's than customers.

old man

Agree captain, BUT at least you can sit uncomfortably and watch the meter going round.

edwardseco

Ronsaik scores with the clearest post here. But, when I thought about it I realized how difficult that would be in India. Which price do you use, my late mother in law's which involved devoted and determined bargaining over several hours or my sister in law who pays top dollar? And how do we get these figures from the venders? My spouse wanted fruit marketing costs and prices. Guess how many people volunteered for that one? She actually obtained such from one marketer after 2 years of slowly gaining his trust. Try this line, I am from the government and just want to ask you some questions. In East LA everyone will vanish to shouts of la migra, la migra. What to do?

Crv's comment about consumer boycots is an old memory to me of meatless Tuesdays launched by a couple of housewives in the US in the 70's. Had little or no impact. You guys stop or reduce your consumption so I can get things cheaper. Demand doesn't change that easily and the fact that quantity demanded may decrease a bit is another concept. Incidently, there are a ton of SUV monsters on the highways despite my pain in filling my Camry's tank. What are we to do, tell the Chinese and Indians and Russians to give up their gains in consumption to reduce world prices? My neice wants her designer (Indian) jeans and she makes the do re mi to pay for them. My brother in law has his first new car and he will drive it. What we will do is get used to things. Gasoline isn't going back to 19.9 cents a gallon as it was in the 60's and we will survive. Now get out there and send the Sensex back up. I have lost so much there my retirement age is now 94..

capt_mahajan

Gametotravel

What is happening in Goa is collective "greed" or loot. i.e. Transportation and food prices when increased is done in unision leaving the end user hapless.

In a capitalist society this is not done as price variants should be there when businesses run independently of each other.

There is a lack of this in transportation and in food. For example if you go to Calangute Beach a smoker will not be able to buy Indian cigarettes from any shop near the parking but foreign cigarettes at higher prices or Indian cigarettes at higher prices. Also in the case of food there is hardly any price variation(feels like a price unionism).

A budget person using the taxi at season time(no other option available at such times) will end up spending more money in travelling than on entertainment. A pilot ride last New Year going from Hilltop to Candolim cost me Rs 250/-???

This is the reason (the price consortium) that Indian travellers prefer getting their own tranports from back home and in the process clogging the streets in festival time.

Once the pricing is okay then the locals will start using to a greater extent and enough will be there to go by without overcharging. For this to happen individuals should make their own decision on pricing to break the "price consortium" for the lay traveller and not some relative or relatives friend.

In any other city I should be able to get ten different prices for a destination before deciding on any particular cab. Calcutta cabs can be dealt with more blindly and more such exceptions may be there !

Some equilibrium ought to be reached here!

* Also administrators how to deal with suspended log ins while posting?

capt_mahajan

Tick the 'remember me' box while logging in.

poni

this reminds me of "looks who is complaining" !! LOL
Are our foreign visitors feelig the pinch???
I have to completely agree with gametotravel. its is very true. Its called LOOTING.

As an indian traveller i used to/visit goa many times a year.
After so many trips and seeing how worse its becoming everytime,

I have to place the on "blame" the foreign visitors and a
percentage the indian tourists that tries to "imitate" the demeanor of these foreign tourists.

[i understand yu are not talking about inflation but the super "greedy" taxi-wallas /food
accomodation vendoes etc. that seems to be prevalent today and finding no reason to change ]


Now some of you have started comparing how much a cabbie in europe earn visavis the indian cabbie
and drawing some sort of an justification here. and also saying, "so what" most of the places in the
world are like that and if its happening in 'india'/goa , its nothing new.


This the sort of mentality of these foreign tourists is what is responible to the current situatuon.

If a place is good, you should let it be that way.
When a foreigner comes to india, he should be like an indian and pay indian prices and not flaunt with
big dollars bills. [No govt. will ever tell any tourist to spend money wisely! It a moral duty of tourist ]

the simple to understand reason is, if the prices in india are 'low',its because an indian could
afford so much in the current economic state and it works that way. this way everybody is happy.
Now, enter a foreigner,ready to spend and splurge coz he/she thinks,the prices are so cheap compared to their own
country,( often abuse that privilege) what will happen? 'greed' will overtake and screw up the place.

this same thing applies to even "Tipping" , you might tip 15/20% or even more in the west, that
is the custom there, but why do you bring that here? I have seen in some goan shacks, foreigners often
tipping like 100 rupee notes, to get preferential treatment ? what does that mean ??
As an indian i feel one simple thing. --- that 100inr means 'nothing' to you and you have come here
to blow big money. so next day the hotels will expect even more . isn't it ??

So it is very important to understand the local customs, and spend wisely. its wise to a moment to think
this simple thing. does an average indian tousist 'tip' so heavy ? or 'spend' so much for the pathetic garment
sold at the beach shacks ? and likewise.


Now this yet another personal experience last new year eve in goa.
I got a bottle of kings beer for 50 inr all evening in a beach shack. at around mid-night, the
lady bartender started asking, 150 rupees for the same bottle ?? WHY ??
because all the establishments in goa has realised ,,,People come there to "blow" money
and that little money means nothing to them, so lets make us of the tremendous 'oppurtunity' that presented itself around at new year.

[ does anybody has the 'guts' to complain to the authorities/ print in a news paper/ No, why rock the party?

IT IS ILLEGAL TO SELL A PRODUCT MORE THAN ITS MRP -(Max. Retail. Price), printed by the local tax authority.

Infact you actually have the right to demand, discount over the MRP and many places they do give good discounts over mrp ]

look at this perspective, if you buy that bottle of beer at 150 inr, what happens ? the police , the authorities know
people have been splurging/indulging themselves and start to demand their 'cut' from the 'easy money' these people make.
see how you are responsible in all this.



some small scale vendors even run after every "foreigner" to sell them all sort of disgusting things,
( coz they dont stand a chance with a wise/indian tourist!!!)

Do you know those little beach 'costumes'..printed t-shirts/trousers that sell by the beach
shack. they charge like 100/200 or more depending on their "mood" and time of the day!!!.
But Nobody would buy it for what its worth.
the same tourist doesnt think much about paying that kinda price, because it looks like a 100/200/300 inr means nothing to them and
its all about luxury in buying cheap things at super expensive rates...( and later, often pass poor remarks about the kind of garment available )

and those people selling these horrible garmetns at obscene prices come from across states
where if they try to "sell" it to their locals , they would probaly fetch less than 20/30 or even
burn away these garments coz, it doesnt make sense to wear them !!!

[ now, knowing that, neighbouring state labor is making 200 out of a 20 rupee garment, the police wants their cut.
you are 'also responsible for corruption ]


It is the same "foreigner" who then complains, that they are mobbed by these gypsies to sell all
sorts of BS. But why?? because these gypsies long realised that, to foreigners, a 100/200 means
throw away price. [ please stop comparing prices in europe and india for godsake]

Now as an indian, this seems obscene, what was seemingly a great place many years back has now become
an , "unaffortable", "ripp-off", "greedy" kind of place.they have tasted 'easy money' fed by foreigners
and other tourists. now they just want more !!!


so please do not draw parallels to the western tourist hot spots and say "its ought to be like that".


they write in many wildlife santuaries all over the world, "please dont feed the animals".
because, in their environment they are just fine and having a simple and "rich" life. But when you
inject 'easy money'..thats when problem begins.

In the end the 'sufferer' is not the foreigner. but the place itself, and other vfm type tourists who
are hit hard with this kind of farce.

and worse,the bad tourist find the easy way out =>
one more place successfully destroyed. lets head to the next place now !!


Moral of the story - it the money which is root cause of all the problems. and those who dont know
how to handle the money. and now that they have tasted the money, they want more money !!

sorry for being blunt and repetitive but its important to get that message to the people complaining of greedy goa,
and this is as straight as it gets

kmalik

Revisit your economics course - or ask for your money back. There is no basis for your assertion. When people do not get fixed prices like in Europe or elsewhere 'civilized' - they complain about that. You seem to be complaining when you find the 'fixed prices'. The problem isn't the fixed or varying prices - you just find them higher than you want to pay, and that's just fine. Look for alternatives - for transportation and failing that - destination.

Budget persons ought to select their destinations and timing of visit to expensive areas more thoughtfully. Unfortunately, the times are tough and going tougher (due to inflation) for those on the fixed income - but save your energy developing strategies for dealing with this reality rather than complaining about greediness of others.

The world is in search of equilibrium on the oil prices - doesn't mean it is around the corner. In a business where the key resource prices are rising faster than inflation (oil) and rising cost of living, don't expect the cab driver to absorb it for you.

The post from poni is too long to respond to. With enough repetition to penetrate even thick skulls like mine - I get the idea. It is not an uncommon point of view, and happens everywhere. People don't complain when they profit from this phenomenon, do when they pay the cost. Not much I can say about it except to say - it is reality, deal with it. The cost of the cabbies have a way to go to reach 40 Euro/hr - just ask your neighbor Cayle.

It is human nature and basis of most if not all economic exchange to try to get the better of the deal. Those complaining are themselves motivated by this same nature, just unhappy when they don't get as good a deal as they are used to. So, anyone complaining about greed ought to look inside their own hearts first.

Not to say that I love this bargaining business in India. I'd rather have clear fixed prices (price credibility and visibility) - but don't think the bargain hunters would like the results from that either.

crvlvr

I agree with most of Ponis post. If foreign tourists think he is being harsh, understand that many Indian tourists get the short end of the stick when they have been waiting for hours for a taxi (happens in Goa during peak season) and taxi drivers prefer to drive around them to pick up a foreign tourist further up the street because they can be charged more.

I just want to add that while Indian tourists will not think twice about negotiating or refusing to pay the exorbitant rates (and letting the vendor know he is out of his mind) many foreign tourists pay first and then complain later. What does that achieve?

If anything good can come out of this thread, I am hoping that ALL tourists go armed with better information and confront the vendors at the point of sale. Cribbing here does not solve anything..