How greedy can they get?.

Mickey S · Jul 31st, 2008, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gametotravel

What if everyone only bought $10.00 worth of Petrol each time they pulled to the pump? The dealer's tanks would stay semi full all the time...

No, they wouldn't, because there'd be a corresponding increase in the number of drivers stopping to buy gas.

No matter how much gas someone buys at a time, they will use the same amount in a week. The dealer will therefore, on average, sell the same amount of gas each day, whether it's 1000 customers buying $10-worth of gas or 100 customers buying $100-worth.

capt_mahajan · Jul 31st, 2008, 01:07

Quote:

gas and electricity has gone up 30+% and rising, and when i went to goa last November butter was 53np and when I returned 89np

Wow, that sounds worse than India, percentage wise.

I always thought inflation on food and utilities was greater in India?

Noni · Jul 31st, 2008, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Noni, those prices from UK are frightening. I had read some scary stuff about gas and the cost of heating a house.

#
Very scary nick - British Gas has just put up its prices by 35% now that is what I call inflation.

Noni · Jul 31st, 2008, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gametotravel

May not apply for many services but some morals can be taken:-

This is worth a read....! Even better if we could follow it...

A man eats two eggs each morning for breakfast. When he goes to thegrocery store he pays 60 cents a dozen. Since a dozen eggs won'tlast a week he normally buys two dozens at a time. One day while buyingeggs he notices that the price has risen to 72 cents. The next timehe buys groceries, eggs are 76 cents a dozen. When asked to explain theprice of eggs the store owner says, "The price has gone up and I have toraise my price accordingly". This store buys 100 dozen eggs a day. Hechecked around for a better price and all the distributors have raisedtheir prices. The distributors have begun to buy from the huge eggfarms. The small egg farms have been driven out of business. The hugeegg farms sell 100,000 dozeneggs a day to distributors. With no competition, they can set the priceas they see fit. The distributors then have to raise their prices to the grocery stores. And on and on and on. As the man kept buying eggs the price kept going up. He saw the big eggtrucks delivering 100 dozen eggs each day. Nothing changed there. Hechecked out the huge egg farms and found they were selling 100,000 dozeneggs to the distributors daily. Nothing had changed but the price ofeggs.

Then week before Thanksgiving the price of eggs shot up to $1.00 adozen. Again he asked the grocery owner why and was told, "Cakes andbaking for the holiday". The huge egg farmers know there will be a lotof baking going on and more eggs will be used. Hence, the price ofeggs goes up. Expect the same thing at Christmas and other times whenfamily cooking, baking, etc. happen. This pattern continues until theprice of eggs is 2.00 a dozen. The man says, " There must be somethingwe can do about the price of eggs". He starts talking to all the peoplein his town and they decide to stop buying eggs. This didn't workbecause everyone needed eggs. Finally, the man suggested only buying what you need. He ate 2 eggs aday. On the way home from work he would stop at the grocery and buy twoeggs. Everyone in town started buying 2 or 3 eggs a day.

The grocerystore owner began complaining that he had too many eggs inhis cooler. He told the distributor that he didn't need any eggs.Maybe wouldn't need any all week.. The distributor had eggs piling up at his warehouse. He told the hugeegg farms that he didn't have any room for eggs would not need any forat least two weeks. At the egg farm, the chickens just kept on layingeggs. To relieve the pressure, the huge egg farm told the distributorthat they could buy the eggs at a lower price. The distributor said, " Idon't have the room for the %$&^*&% eggs even if they were free". T hedistributor told the grocery store owner that he would lower the priceof the eggs if the store would start buying again. The grocery storeowner said, "I don't have room for more eggs. The customers are onlybuying 2 or 3 eggs at a time. Now if you were to drop the price of eggsback down to the original price, the customerswould start buying by the dozen again". The distributors sent thatproposal to the huge egg farmers but the egg farmers liked the pricethey were getting for their eggs but, those chickens just kept onlaying. Finally, the egg farmers lowered the price of their eggs. Butonly a few cents. The customers still bought 2 or 3 eggs at a time. Theysaid, "when the price of eggs gets down to where it was before, we willstart buying by the dozen.

"Slowly the price of eggs started dropping.The distributors had to slash their prices to make room for the eggscoming from the egg farmers. The egg farmers cut their prices becausethe distributors wouldn't buy at a higher price than they were sellingeggs for. Anyway, they had full warehouses and wouldn't need eggs forquite a while. And those chickens kept on laying. Eventually, the eggfarmers cut their prices because they were throwing away eggs theycouldn't sell.The distributors started buying again because the eggs were priced towhere the stores could afford to sell them at the lower price. And the customers starting buying by the dozen again.

Now, transpose this analogy to the gasoline industry. What if everyone only bought $10.00 worth of Petrol each time theypulled to the pump? The dealer's tanks would stay semi full all thetime. Thedealers wouldn't have room for the gas coming from the huge tank farms.The tank farms wouldn't have room for the gas coming from the refiningplants. And the refining plants wouldn't have room for the oil being offloaded from the huge tankers coming from the oil fiends. Just $10.00 each time you buy gas. Don't fill up the tank of your car.You may have to stop for gas twice a week, but the price should comedown. Think about it. As an added note...When I buy $10.00 worth of gasthat leaves my tank a little under quarter full. The way prices arejumping around, you can buy gas for $2.65 a gallon and then the nextmorning it can be $2.15. If you have your tank full of $2.65 gas youdon't have room for the$2.15 gas. You might not understand the economics of only buying twoeggs at a time but, you can't buy cheaper gas if your tank is full ofthe high priced stuff. Also, don't buy anything else at the gas station; don't give them anymore of your hard earned money than what you spend on gas, until theprices come down..." ....................just think of this concept for a while.

Gas mate - we mean heating bills

crvlvr · Jul 31st, 2008, 01:25

Simple buy less but more frequent will NOT change anything. Haven't we all seen those, "Don't not buy gas/petrol on Thursdays" emails. Just makes me want to laugh..

Consumers have to reduce their CONSUMPTION, not buying pattern. this is actually happening in the US. Traffic on weekends are considerably lighter. Very few people are buying gas guzzling SUVs. People are moving close to work. etc..

Back to greedy taxi drivers now..

Nick-H · Jul 31st, 2008, 01:46

The egg model, whilst it encompasses the power-of-big-business factor, suffers from being just too local.

Unfortuantely, stuff that is happening around the world is affecting us.

Rikki · Jul 31st, 2008, 17:03

I once had a restaurant in Goa. We paid decent wages to our staff. Our landlady only increased the price in line with local inflation. An Aloo gobi at 120 and a beer at 40 is dirt cheap and there is no way that shack owner can recover his dues. If he is doing so- then he is not paying his staff a decent wage, not paying tax (VAT),not paying his licence fees, not paying rent, and not making much money for himself either. I eventually had to shut down my restaurant as in the last year i actually was putting in money from my own pocket. Over here in the UK there has been a 35 percent increase in gas prices- this coupled with a hefty increase in petrol and diesel prices. I think some of our expats broad alive in a dream land of their own making. All they have to do is come back and that should stop them complaining about prices elsewhere. Furthermore- In the UK we are taught not to abuse other cultures. Even shops like Primark have not been spared when they use underage forced labour. Why do our expats think it is then accepatble to go to a shack or a restaurant that seems to abuse its staff by not paying them decent wages or contributing to the tax and licencing system of that country- Yes, they all claim these countries are corrupt- but then they are adding to that corruption! Maybe- we in the UK are lucky these type of people have left! My sympathies to the decent people out there though

simply_sunny001 · Jul 31st, 2008, 17:13

What a true view of the things,RIKKI

The problem is people just dont wanna pay anything more than what they paid 5 years ago.

And they forget about inflation,hike in their own income etc etc.

But true people who have a genuine interest in travel and leisure understand everything and they plan things as per their budget rather than cribbing about silly things.

Anyways,Sad to hear that you have closed down in Goa.

But we surely need lot of people like you.

edwardseco · Jul 31st, 2008, 21:22

Restaurant business has a huge failure rate. Fortunately (from some research I did for the SBA), they have an equally huge tax evasion rate. Its a hard way to get a business education..

Nick-H · Jul 31st, 2008, 21:25

Moderator Note:

Merged Greedy People thread into this one

kmalik · Jul 31st, 2008, 21:31

Reading this thread as well as another that I just saw on greed - I am confused about when higher prices are simply inflation and when it is termed greedy

Let me see if I got this straight: When the vegetable vendor, taxi driver etc. wants higher prices - she/he is being greedy and ought to go the church to confess. When a company, say a company - oil, pharma take your pick - raises its prices (and profits fairly obscenely), it is simply part of the inflation and capitalism - no confession necessary, I presume. I am still confused about the label I should use when countries act as cartels - OPEC, NSG etc. to raise prices?

crvlvr · Aug 1st, 2008, 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmalik

Reading this thread as well as another that I just saw on greed - I am confused about when higher prices are simply inflation and

I think this thread off on prices of things in Goa that are disproportionately higher in Goa as compared to other states in India. Hence, the inflation theory does not hold. It is more of tourist pricing or price hiking during the tourist season.

In Goa, one has to recognize that most vendors have to make their annual income during the tourist season -- which last only 6 months of the year. This by default, results in the vendors pricing their goods/services higher during the season to make up for lack of business during the off season. In addition, there is a bit of price gouging where foreigners are quoted higher rates. But, this is prevalant in most tourist destinations across the world.

What will be helpful (since the thread started off on this topic ) is tips on how to negotiate with taxi drivers in Goa.

Mickey S · Aug 1st, 2008, 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by crvlvr

In addition, there is a bit of price gouging where foreigners are quoted higher rates. But, this is prevalant in most tourist destinations across the world.

I'm not sure that's true.

If you go to France, or the US, or Japan (or the UK) you don't pay more for things because you're a tourist. If you use a taxi, eat in a restaurant or book a domestic flight you will pay exactly the same as the locals pay. Of course, things cost a lot more in tourist destinations such as Venice and Paris, but the prices still apply to everyone.

Dual pricing tends to happen in developing economies, and the disappearance of such practices is a good sign that an economy is maturing.

kmalik · Aug 1st, 2008, 04:01

Mickey -

Good points. However, at least in the US - the taxes paid only by the non-residents / tourists (e.g. hotel occupancy taxes of various sort) are right up there with the tobacco consumers. This is, of course, a more civilized and politically correct way socking it to the tourists - but just as effective. Have paid enough inflated prices in Italy, perhaps simply for lack of knowledge about the alternatives, to know that Goa isn't the only place where there is a tourist premium. And, I have been taken for enough long way around cab rides in Europe to know that India is not the only place where cabbies can fleece you if you are/look like a tourist. Modalities are better hidden, but the effect is still the same.

Not defending price gauging, but higher prices paid when traveling or staying away from home territory are part of the deal. So are the price premiums for convenience, which we pay in everyday life. When faced with unreasonable prices - whining is hardly the answer, either let your actions do the talking or suck it up.

In Goa - we have settled for a bus and a hike to our hotel, instead of giving into the tourist pricing by the cab drivers. Have done the same in Delhi simply to avoid the unpleasantness of haggling with auto drivers. But I don't blame them for their greediness and wonder whether they confess in church when this behavior pretty much drives the economic enterprise around the world at all levels.

crvlvr · Aug 1st, 2008, 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey S

I'm not sure that's true.

Dual pricing tends to happen in developing economies, and the disappearance of such practices is a good sign that an economy is maturing.

this is not a question of fixed dual pricing (which does exist in some govt run monuments). Its a matter of raising prices when the opportunity presents itself. If one were to google "tourist pricing" one would see articles from all over the world, NY, Moscow, Italy etc. The state of development of the economy really has nothing to do with it.

Jul 31st, 2008, 01:46	#66
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	The egg model, whilst it encompasses the power-of-big-business factor, suffers from being just too local. Unfortuantely, stuff that is happening around the world is affecting us. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Jul 31st, 2008, 17:03	#67
Rikki luca stein Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1	Greedy people! I once had a restaurant in Goa. We paid decent wages to our staff. Our landlady only increased the price in line with local inflation. An Aloo gobi at 120 and a beer at 40 is dirt cheap and there is no way that shack owner can recover his dues. If he is doing so- then he is not paying his staff a decent wage, not paying tax (VAT),not paying his licence fees, not paying rent, and not making much money for himself either. I eventually had to shut down my restaurant as in the last year i actually was putting in money from my own pocket. Over here in the UK there has been a 35 percent increase in gas prices- this coupled with a hefty increase in petrol and diesel prices. I think some of our expats broad alive in a dream land of their own making. All they have to do is come back and that should stop them complaining about prices elsewhere. Furthermore- In the UK we are taught not to abuse other cultures. Even shops like Primark have not been spared when they use underage forced labour. Why do our expats think it is then accepatble to go to a shack or a restaurant that seems to abuse its staff by not paying them decent wages or contributing to the tax and licencing system of that country- Yes, they all claim these countries are corrupt- but then they are adding to that corruption! Maybe- we in the UK are lucky these type of people have left! My sympathies to the decent people out there though

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Jul 31st, 2008, 01:25	#65
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,498	Simple buy less but more frequent will NOT change anything. Haven't we all seen those, "Don't not buy gas/petrol on Thursdays" emails. Just makes me want to laugh.. Consumers have to reduce their CONSUMPTION, not buying pattern. this is actually happening in the US. Traffic on weekends are considerably lighter. Very few people are buying gas guzzling SUVs. People are moving close to work. etc.. Back to greedy taxi drivers now..

Jul 31st, 2008, 17:13	#68
simply_sunny001 Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Noida Posts: 24	What a true view of the things,RIKKI The problem is people just dont wanna pay anything more than what they paid 5 years ago. And they forget about inflation,hike in their own income etc etc. But true people who have a genuine interest in travel and leisure understand everything and they plan things as per their budget rather than cribbing about silly things. Anyways,Sad to hear that you have closed down in Goa. But we surely need lot of people like you.

Jul 31st, 2008, 21:22	#69
edwardseco Maha Guru Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Land that shakes and bakes. Posts: 4,142	Restaurant business has a huge failure rate. Fortunately (from some research I did for the SBA), they have an equally huge tax evasion rate. Its a hard way to get a business education..

Jul 31st, 2008, 21:25	#70
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 27,692	Moderator Note: Merged Greedy People thread into this one

Jul 31st, 2008, 21:31	#71
kmalik Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 459	Reading this thread as well as another that I just saw on greed - I am confused about when higher prices are simply inflation and when it is termed greedy Let me see if I got this straight: When the vegetable vendor, taxi driver etc. wants higher prices - she/he is being greedy and ought to go the church to confess. When a company, say a company - oil, pharma take your pick - raises its prices (and profits fairly obscenely), it is simply part of the inflation and capitalism - no confession necessary, I presume. I am still confused about the label I should use when countries act as cartels - OPEC, NSG etc. to raise prices?

Aug 1st, 2008, 04:01	#74
kmalik Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 459	Mickey - Good points. However, at least in the US - the taxes paid only by the non-residents / tourists (e.g. hotel occupancy taxes of various sort) are right up there with the tobacco consumers. This is, of course, a more civilized and politically correct way socking it to the tourists - but just as effective. Have paid enough inflated prices in Italy, perhaps simply for lack of knowledge about the alternatives, to know that Goa isn't the only place where there is a tourist premium. And, I have been taken for enough long way around cab rides in Europe to know that India is not the only place where cabbies can fleece you if you are/look like a tourist. Modalities are better hidden, but the effect is still the same. Not defending price gauging, but higher prices paid when traveling or staying away from home territory are part of the deal. So are the price premiums for convenience, which we pay in everyday life. When faced with unreasonable prices - whining is hardly the answer, either let your actions do the talking or suck it up. In Goa - we have settled for a bus and a hike to our hotel, instead of giving into the tourist pricing by the cab drivers. Have done the same in Delhi simply to avoid the unpleasantness of haggling with auto drivers. But I don't blame them for their greediness and wonder whether they confess in church when this behavior pretty much drives the economic enterprise around the world at all levels.

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