How greedy can they get?.

ronsaik · Jul 29th, 2008, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad

does this mean that inflation rate in India is over estimated? coz it does not adjust for change in quality of living of middle class (high income group has always enjoyed quality stuff and lower income segment is stagnant) and the change in their consumption basket?

?? How do you conclude that if the consumption basket is not revised, inflation is necessarily overestimated? Going by the tenor of your mail, a more logical conclusion would be that inflation is underestimated. But that is not the case, because you cannot compare price hikes across different baskets of goods.

It is erroneous to say that inflation in India is always underestimated. In fact, since official figures quote the WPI, what we end up measuring is producer price hikes, not consumer price hikes. In other words, we do not measure what we should measure.

In the current case, the CPI (any measure of it - urban/rural/manual/non manual) has escalated to a much greater extent than WPI. The primary reason for this, it seems, is a food shortage.

nomad · Jul 29th, 2008, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronsaik

?? How do you conclude that if the consumption basket is not revised, inflation is necessarily overestimated? Going by the tenor of your mail, a more logical conclusion would be that inflation is underestimated. But that is not the case, because you cannot compare price hikes across different baskets of goods.

It is erroneous to say that inflation in India is always underestimated. In fact, since official figures quote the WPI, what we end up measuring is producer price hikes, not consumer price hikes. In other words, we do not measure what we should measure.

In the current case, the CPI (any measure of it - urban/rural/manual/non manual) has escalated to a much greater extent than WPI. The primary reason for this, it seems, is a food shortage.

you are right, it's not necessary that inflation is over estimated. but its far sure distorted and meaning less. in a developing country where consumption basket changes rapidly and just by taking static weighted average of prices is not going to give the true picture.

but yeah its not necessary that it will be over stated.

crvlvr · Jul 30th, 2008, 00:29

If prices are too high is Goa its because SOMEONE is paying those prices. It is a matter of supply and demand (monetary policy and Iraq war be damned for a moment). If people stop paying those high prices, then vendors will be forced to lower the prices.

I know most Indian's refuse to pay these prices and don't frequent rip off establishments. As a matter of fact, Taxi drivers in Goa have sheepishly admitted that they don;t stop for Indians as they cannot rip them off.

stevebenaulim · Jul 30th, 2008, 00:37

Living in Goa as i do, or have been, most of the year.
I have learnt alot about the Goans.
I have learnt they live (most of them) around the church,
which ive always admired.
A genuine question, when they rip a westerner, do they need to
confess this at mass??.

Honey Bee · Jul 30th, 2008, 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebenaulim

Living in Goa as i do, or have been, most of the year.
I have learnt alot about the Goans.
I have learnt they live (most of them) around the church,
which ive always admired.
A genuine question, when they rip a westerner, do they need to
confess this at mass??.

Look forward reading to the answers you get!

crvlvr · Jul 30th, 2008, 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebenaulim

Living in Goa as i do, or have been, most of the year.
I have learnt alot about the Goans.
I have learnt they live (most of them) around the church,
which ive always admired.
A genuine question, when they rip a westerner, do they need to
confess this at mass??.

Generally their mentality is, "I am not ripping you off, but if you must be foolish enough to pay so much".. BTW, most businessmen all over the world do it, and with a clear conscience. After all, no one is putting a gun to your head to pay their exorbidant rates.. Its called capitalism -- no different from what my cable company does here in the US. Or what the oil companies are doing to the whole world.

Brisso · Jul 30th, 2008, 07:30

Hear hear ... if you are dumb enough to pay, its your problem. Same the world over. If you feel you shouldn't pay, walk away ...

skk · Jul 30th, 2008, 08:49

Picking up the macroeconomic perspective on inflation, I see that today the RBI has :
The repo rate has been hiked from 8.5% to 9% and the CRR from 8.75% to 9%. The higher CRR requirement is expected to suck out about Rs 8,500 crore from the banking system.
NB:CRR is cash reserve ratio which is the amount the banks have to leave with the RBI and reduces the amount they can lend under the fractional reserve system.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/3304230.cms

This is a move in the right direction - the RBI claims this goes towards their objective of reducing inflation to 7% pa by Mar. 2009

A question: What's EMI ? as in - in the article they talk of :"A half percentage point increase in rates would mean EMIs going up by Rs 35 per lakh rupees of loan for a 20-year loan."

So I suppose its your monthly loan repayment - but the exact meaning of the acronym ?

-skk

capt_mahajan · Jul 30th, 2008, 08:50

EMI: Equated monthly instalment, and yes, the monthly loan repayment.

GoanCanuck · Jul 30th, 2008, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebenaulim

I have learnt they live (most of them) around the church,
which ive always admired.

Your observation is incorrect because the majority in Goa is Hindu not Christian as per the census. You probably are meeting more Christians because you live in the coastal belt where the Christian population is concentrated. If you go more than 15 km inland the population is largely Hindu.

shashank.aggarwal · Jul 30th, 2008, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by crvlvr

Generally their mentality is, "I am not ripping you off, but if you must be foolish enough to pay so much".. BTW, most businessmen all over the world do it, and with a clear conscience. After all, no one is putting a gun to your head to pay their exorbidant rates.. Its called capitalism -- no different from what my cable company does here in the US. Or what the oil companies are doing to the whole world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brisso

Hear hear ... if you are dumb enough to pay, its your problem. Same the world over. If you feel you shouldn't pay, walk away ...

I largely support this concept, however this is something thats not acceptable for something as basic as transportation. I can accept food, you would have 150 choices with all kind of qualities and varieties, Same with accommodation, but not in Taxis. Taxis are the basic thread of public transport in most of the places, and they need to be regulated big time.

stevebenaulim · Jul 30th, 2008, 12:31

Dont worry, i get ripped very little, after 9 years, i know the prices.
The only time really is taxis, from Benaulim to anywhere, the taxis have formed a ring, they must be the most expensive taxis in Goa.
Its the stories i hear daily from the tourists, then i realise, just how bad the rip offs are, but as said if they are dumb enough to pay it, so be it.
I just thought good church going people the Goans are',?,
they would be more honest.
Dont worry i know dumb tourist getted ripped all over the world.
I just thought the church ethics????.

Gametotravel · Jul 30th, 2008, 14:10

May not apply for many services but some morals can be taken:-

This is worth a read....! Even better if we could follow it...

A man eats two eggs each morning for breakfast. When he goes to thegrocery store he pays 60 cents a dozen. Since a dozen eggs won'tlast a week he normally buys two dozens at a time. One day while buyingeggs he notices that the price has risen to 72 cents. The next timehe buys groceries, eggs are 76 cents a dozen. When asked to explain theprice of eggs the store owner says, "The price has gone up and I have toraise my price accordingly". This store buys 100 dozen eggs a day. Hechecked around for a better price and all the distributors have raisedtheir prices. The distributors have begun to buy from the huge eggfarms. The small egg farms have been driven out of business. The hugeegg farms sell 100,000 dozeneggs a day to distributors. With no competition, they can set the priceas they see fit. The distributors then have to raise their prices to the grocery stores. And on and on and on. As the man kept buying eggs the price kept going up. He saw the big eggtrucks delivering 100 dozen eggs each day. Nothing changed there. Hechecked out the huge egg farms and found they were selling 100,000 dozeneggs to the distributors daily. Nothing had changed but the price ofeggs.

Then week before Thanksgiving the price of eggs shot up to $1.00 adozen. Again he asked the grocery owner why and was told, "Cakes andbaking for the holiday". The huge egg farmers know there will be a lotof baking going on and more eggs will be used. Hence, the price ofeggs goes up. Expect the same thing at Christmas and other times whenfamily cooking, baking, etc. happen. This pattern continues until theprice of eggs is 2.00 a dozen. The man says, " There must be somethingwe can do about the price of eggs". He starts talking to all the peoplein his town and they decide to stop buying eggs. This didn't workbecause everyone needed eggs. Finally, the man suggested only buying what you need. He ate 2 eggs aday. On the way home from work he would stop at the grocery and buy twoeggs. Everyone in town started buying 2 or 3 eggs a day.

The grocerystore owner began complaining that he had too many eggs inhis cooler. He told the distributor that he didn't need any eggs.Maybe wouldn't need any all week.. The distributor had eggs piling up at his warehouse. He told the hugeegg farms that he didn't have any room for eggs would not need any forat least two weeks. At the egg farm, the chickens just kept on layingeggs. To relieve the pressure, the huge egg farm told the distributorthat they could buy the eggs at a lower price. The distributor said, " Idon't have the room for the %$&^*&% eggs even if they were free". T hedistributor told the grocery store owner that he would lower the priceof the eggs if the store would start buying again. The grocery storeowner said, "I don't have room for more eggs. The customers are onlybuying 2 or 3 eggs at a time. Now if you were to drop the price of eggsback down to the original price, the customerswould start buying by the dozen again". The distributors sent thatproposal to the huge egg farmers but the egg farmers liked the pricethey were getting for their eggs but, those chickens just kept onlaying. Finally, the egg farmers lowered the price of their eggs. Butonly a few cents. The customers still bought 2 or 3 eggs at a time. Theysaid, "when the price of eggs gets down to where it was before, we willstart buying by the dozen.

"Slowly the price of eggs started dropping.The distributors had to slash their prices to make room for the eggscoming from the egg farmers. The egg farmers cut their prices becausethe distributors wouldn't buy at a higher price than they were sellingeggs for. Anyway, they had full warehouses and wouldn't need eggs forquite a while. And those chickens kept on laying. Eventually, the eggfarmers cut their prices because they were throwing away eggs theycouldn't sell.The distributors started buying again because the eggs were priced towhere the stores could afford to sell them at the lower price. And the customers starting buying by the dozen again.

Now, transpose this analogy to the gasoline industry. What if everyone only bought $10.00 worth of Petrol each time theypulled to the pump? The dealer's tanks would stay semi full all thetime. Thedealers wouldn't have room for the gas coming from the huge tank farms.The tank farms wouldn't have room for the gas coming from the refiningplants. And the refining plants wouldn't have room for the oil being offloaded from the huge tankers coming from the oil fiends. Just $10.00 each time you buy gas. Don't fill up the tank of your car.You may have to stop for gas twice a week, but the price should comedown. Think about it. As an added note...When I buy $10.00 worth of gasthat leaves my tank a little under quarter full. The way prices arejumping around, you can buy gas for $2.65 a gallon and then the nextmorning it can be $2.15. If you have your tank full of $2.65 gas youdon't have room for the$2.15 gas. You might not understand the economics of only buying twoeggs at a time but, you can't buy cheaper gas if your tank is full ofthe high priced stuff. Also, don't buy anything else at the gas station; don't give them anymore of your hard earned money than what you spend on gas, until theprices come down..." ....................just think of this concept for a while.

GoanCanuck · Jul 30th, 2008, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gametotravel

May not apply for many services but some morals can be taken:-

Could you please format your post? It is impossible to read it the way you have posted it as a huge block of text.

A friendly mod passed by. It was written in paragraphs, I just added some white space!

odowdchr · Jul 31st, 2008, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Noni, those prices from UK are frightening. I had read some scary stuff about gas and the cost of heating a house.

Here's a good one...British Gas put their gas prices up by 35% today...but have promised not to raise them again for the rest of 2008.
That means that everybody else will follow (one supplier went up 19% last week)...some will go up 20% very soon and another 15-20% when the weather cools down.

Jul 30th, 2008, 14:10	#58
Gametotravel Maha Guru Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 531	How price economics work! May not apply for many services but some morals can be taken:- This is worth a read....! Even better if we could follow it... A man eats two eggs each morning for breakfast. When he goes to thegrocery store he pays 60 cents a dozen. Since a dozen eggs won'tlast a week he normally buys two dozens at a time. One day while buyingeggs he notices that the price has risen to 72 cents. The next timehe buys groceries, eggs are 76 cents a dozen. When asked to explain theprice of eggs the store owner says, "The price has gone up and I have toraise my price accordingly". This store buys 100 dozen eggs a day. Hechecked around for a better price and all the distributors have raisedtheir prices. The distributors have begun to buy from the huge eggfarms. The small egg farms have been driven out of business. The hugeegg farms sell 100,000 dozeneggs a day to distributors. With no competition, they can set the priceas they see fit. The distributors then have to raise their prices to the grocery stores. And on and on and on. As the man kept buying eggs the price kept going up. He saw the big eggtrucks delivering 100 dozen eggs each day. Nothing changed there. Hechecked out the huge egg farms and found they were selling 100,000 dozeneggs to the distributors daily. Nothing had changed but the price ofeggs. Then week before Thanksgiving the price of eggs shot up to $1.00 adozen. Again he asked the grocery owner why and was told, "Cakes andbaking for the holiday". The huge egg farmers know there will be a lotof baking going on and more eggs will be used. Hence, the price ofeggs goes up. Expect the same thing at Christmas and other times whenfamily cooking, baking, etc. happen. This pattern continues until theprice of eggs is 2.00 a dozen. The man says, " There must be somethingwe can do about the price of eggs". He starts talking to all the peoplein his town and they decide to stop buying eggs. This didn't workbecause everyone needed eggs. Finally, the man suggested only buying what you need. He ate 2 eggs aday. On the way home from work he would stop at the grocery and buy twoeggs. Everyone in town started buying 2 or 3 eggs a day. The grocerystore owner began complaining that he had too many eggs inhis cooler. He told the distributor that he didn't need any eggs.Maybe wouldn't need any all week.. The distributor had eggs piling up at his warehouse. He told the hugeegg farms that he didn't have any room for eggs would not need any forat least two weeks. At the egg farm, the chickens just kept on layingeggs. To relieve the pressure, the huge egg farm told the distributorthat they could buy the eggs at a lower price. The distributor said, " Idon't have the room for the %$&^&% eggs even if they were free". T hedistributor told the grocery store owner that he would lower the priceof the eggs if the store would start buying again. The grocery storeowner said, "I don't have room for more eggs. The customers are onlybuying 2 or 3 eggs at a time. Now if you were to drop the price of eggsback down to the original price, the customerswould start buying by the dozen again". The distributors sent thatproposal to the huge egg farmers but the egg farmers liked the pricethey were getting for their eggs but, those chickens just kept onlaying. Finally, the egg farmers lowered the price of their eggs. Butonly a few cents. The customers still bought 2 or 3 eggs at a time. Theysaid, "when the price of eggs gets down to where it was before, we willstart buying by the dozen. "Slowly the price of eggs started dropping.The distributors had to slash their prices to make room for the eggscoming from the egg farmers. The egg farmers cut their prices becausethe distributors wouldn't buy at a higher price than they were sellingeggs for. Anyway, they had full warehouses and wouldn't need eggs forquite a while. And those chickens kept on laying. Eventually, the eggfarmers cut their prices because they were throwing away eggs theycouldn't sell.The distributors started buying again because the eggs were priced towhere the stores could afford to sell them at the lower price. And the customers starting buying by the dozen again. Now, transpose this analogy to the gasoline industry. What if everyone only bought $10.00 worth of Petrol each time theypulled to the pump? The dealer's tanks would stay semi full all thetime. Thedealers wouldn't have room for the gas coming from the huge tank farms.The tank farms wouldn't have room for the gas coming from the refiningplants. And the refining plants wouldn't have room for the oil being offloaded from the huge tankers coming from the oil fiends. Just $10.00 each time you buy gas. Don't fill up the tank of your car.You may have to stop for gas twice a week, but the price should comedown. Think about it. As an added note...When I buy $10.00 worth of gasthat leaves my tank a little under quarter full. The way prices arejumping around, you can buy gas for $2.65 a gallon and then the nextmorning it can be $2.15. If you have your tank full of $2.65 gas youdon't have room for the$2.15 gas. You might not understand the economics of only buying twoeggs at a time but, you can't buy cheaper gas if your tank is full ofthe high priced stuff. Also, don't buy anything else at the gas station; don't give them anymore of your hard earned money than what you spend on gas, until theprices come down..." ....................just think of this concept for a while. Last edited by Nick-H : Jul 30th, 2008 at 16:59.*

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Jul 30th, 2008, 00:29	#48
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,498	If prices are too high is Goa its because SOMEONE is paying those prices. It is a matter of supply and demand (monetary policy and Iraq war be damned for a moment). If people stop paying those high prices, then vendors will be forced to lower the prices. I know most Indian's refuse to pay these prices and don't frequent rip off establishments. As a matter of fact, Taxi drivers in Goa have sheepishly admitted that they don;t stop for Indians as they cannot rip them off.

Jul 30th, 2008, 00:37	#49
stevebenaulim Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: goa Posts: 136	Living in Goa as i do, or have been, most of the year. I have learnt alot about the Goans. I have learnt they live (most of them) around the church, which ive always admired. A genuine question, when they rip a westerner, do they need to confess this at mass??.

Jul 30th, 2008, 07:30	#52
Brisso Specialist muddler Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Brisbane Posts: 585	Hear hear ... if you are dumb enough to pay, its your problem. Same the world over. If you feel you shouldn't pay, walk away ...

Jul 30th, 2008, 08:49	#53
skk Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boulder CO, USA Posts: 527	Picking up the macroeconomic perspective on inflation, I see that today the RBI has : The repo rate has been hiked from 8.5% to 9% and the CRR from 8.75% to 9%. The higher CRR requirement is expected to suck out about Rs 8,500 crore from the banking system. NB:CRR is cash reserve ratio which is the amount the banks have to leave with the RBI and reduces the amount they can lend under the fractional reserve system. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/3304230.cms This is a move in the right direction - the RBI claims this goes towards their objective of reducing inflation to 7% pa by Mar. 2009 A question: What's EMI ? as in - in the article they talk of :"A half percentage point increase in rates would mean EMIs going up by Rs 35 per lakh rupees of loan for a 20-year loan." So I suppose its your monthly loan repayment - but the exact meaning of the acronym ? -skk

Jul 30th, 2008, 08:50	#54
capt_mahajan (in charge of navel affairs) Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 10,509	EMI: Equated monthly instalment, and yes, the monthly loan repayment.

Jul 30th, 2008, 12:31	#57
stevebenaulim Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: goa Posts: 136	Dont worry, i get ripped very little, after 9 years, i know the prices. The only time really is taxis, from Benaulim to anywhere, the taxis have formed a ring, they must be the most expensive taxis in Goa. Its the stories i hear daily from the tourists, then i realise, just how bad the rip offs are, but as said if they are dumb enough to pay it, so be it. I just thought good church going people the Goans are',?, they would be more honest. Dont worry i know dumb tourist getted ripped all over the world. I just thought the church ethics????.

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