Denied Entry or Re-entry back to India on Multiple Entry Visas

#1 Jan 2nd, 2018, 20:19
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Oh Dear! - Can this be the end of back to back visas? -

Several days ago, the retired Warden in Puttaparthi for the U.S. Consulate in Hyderabad sent an email to the Sai Baba devotees here. I no longer have a copy of the email, so the information I am providing comes from my memory—and not directly from that e-mail.

The Warden said that two people returning to India recently were denied reentry at the Bangalore airport. (One was an American and the other a German, as I recall.)
I do not believe she stated whether the people had applied for and received short-term visas for India in one of the surrounding countries—or if they were returning on multiple-entry tourist visas they had received in their home countries.

A few days later, when I told someone about this incident, he stated that a friend of his had also been denied reentry into India at the Bangalore airport just a couple of days before and was forced to return to his home country.
The man did not have to pay for his return airplane ticket—but he lost the cost of the inbound ticket (and visa, I assume).
The man was told that his visa for India was "incomplete." But the officials at the Bangalore airport never explained how or why his visa was "incomplete."
The man was also "greeted" by several policemen upon his return to his home country—although they could (or would) not tell him why.

When I told another person about these incidents, he stated that another man (from the same country in the incident above) was recently denied entry into India at the airport in Trichy.
Once again, the man was "greeted" by several policemen upon his return to his home country.

Previous message strongly suggests that the Indian government has changed its visa policy and that anyone who was granted a multiple-entry tourist visa before this change was made will now be denied reentry into India.

I am long past the point of becoming emotionally upset by the actions of the Indian government and its officials.
But, rationally, I find this “policy” absolutely outrageous.
The Indian government should inform people of any new policy before a person makes plans and spends the money to travel to India—not after he or she has arrived at the airport.
And people should not have to learn about it by word-of-mouth.
This kind of conduct creates utter havoc for a traveler—and costs the person hundreds (and, in many situations, thousands) of dollars, Euros, etc.

You do a great service by passing this information along to anyone planning to enter / reenter India.
#2 Jan 2nd, 2018, 21:35
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Originally Posted by PIXIE99 View Post Oh Dear! - Can this be the end of back to back visas? -


The man was also "greeted" by several policemen upon his return to his home country—although they could (or would) not tell him why.


...
...

Once again, the man was "greeted" by several policemen upon his return to his home country.


You do a great service by passing this information along to anyone planning to enter / reenter India.
Hearsay !

Please do not post information which has vague innuendos. In my four decades plus of very frequent travel, I have never seen LEA (Law Enforcement Agency) greet a pax who has been denied entry, unless Immigrations Officials at the airport which denied entry, inform airline, and border control of inquirable action.


It is rather strange that the LEA would not tell the pax the reason for his detention on arriving back home ? Unless the "home country" has weak enforcement controls and due process rights.
#3 Jan 3rd, 2018, 01:26
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I think the post is honest and was posted for the sole reason to find some answers. If you read it propery the note was Why do you find it Hearsay is only your opinion. Let's try to find answers not beat down the poster!

The warder, in this case is the offical or was the offical working on behalf of Americans visiting the Puttparthi area of India. She had worked for the American Embassy before retiring. I personally do not know her but I do believe she is truthful.
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#4 Jan 3rd, 2018, 02:03
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Originally Posted by PIXIE99 View Post The warder, in this case is the offical or was the offical working on behalf of Americans visiting the Puttparthi area of India. She had worked for the American Embassy before retiring. I personally do not know her but I do believe she is truthful.
Then she would have used her internal reporting system to send out an alert to US citizens. I regularly get alerts/tweets from State Department on my phone as well as laptop. I have not seen any hint of malfeasance warning issued by USC-HYD or USDEL.

One can only look for answers if there is substantial information:

Quote:
Previous message strongly suggests that the Indian government has changed its visa policy and that anyone who was granted a multiple-entry tourist visa before this change was made will now be denied reentry into India.
Quotes such as above are not based any reliable data. A non-OCI eligible USC in my neighborhood visits India & South East Asia every quarter without any issues.

Since the allegations are serious, I have DMed/twitter to both South Block as well as Foggy Bottom contacts for validation.
#5 Jan 3rd, 2018, 03:38
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You do a great service by passing this information along to anyone planning to enter / reenter India.
Do I smell Whatsapp?

Quote:
an email to the Sai Baba devotees here. I no longer have a copy of the email ...
You are there? Or in touch with others that received it? Could a copy be obtained?

Still, text is only text and can be written by anybody. "Originals," though, might have tell-tale signs. Did you happen to encounter a certain "letter" from some supposed research institute, popular in India last month, confidently predicting earthquake and tsunami in various parts of South-East Asia? If you saw it, you might have thought that most academics can probably spell "Thailand." ...

What we have is that two persons have been denied entry to India. For reasons fair or foul, it happens, as with other countries. Were they both Sai Baba devotees? well, there's a lot of it about, so there is still not much of a case to suggest anything.
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#6 Jan 3rd, 2018, 03:44
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post Do I smell Whatsapp?

More like 1.0 Alpha released an update
#7 Jan 3rd, 2018, 03:56
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Originally Posted by nycank View Post Hearsay !

I DID read something, a news article a while back (maybe when I was still in India) about a woman who was denied entry to India and she was a devotee of Sai Baba. She was making a ruckus saying it was discrimination against his devotees, blah blah blah. She said it wasn't just her, that Immigration kept others out also.

Maybe you can find it! I know I did not imagine it!
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#8 Jan 3rd, 2018, 06:46
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Originally Posted by Sama View Post She was making a ruckus saying it was discrimination against his devotees, blah blah blah. She said it wasn't just her, that Immigration kept others out also.

Maybe you can find it! I know I did not imagine it!
Alabama's Roy Moore, says illegal immigrant fraud robbed him of the election....

To have a case, or even a sliver of discrimination, there has to be systematic documentation of rejection - a.k.a ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) at PDX (Portland, OR) against Japanese nationals was statistically significant.
#9 Jan 3rd, 2018, 15:51
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The note was posted on a facebook group for Westerners living or staying or visiting Puttparthi. The folks there are in touch with each other by means of the group. The retired embassy worker always alerts them to what is happening. I do agree there is no real hard evidence in this note so one could say it is hearsay, although the writer is sincere and well known to others in the Puttaparthi group in which the note was posted. The comments posted and a previous note from the warden, I have omitted to post here. This issue has been on going for some weeks now. I only posted the note to put it out there! Can this really be happening. Have others on here know or are aware of the problem as stated in the note. Has there been changes by visa officials that we are unaware of? - The note states that customs officers are using covert means to stop some people from entering India. Those denied entry are probably back to back visa holders who live/stay in Puttaparthi - and for some reason have not been allowed back.
#10 Jan 3rd, 2018, 16:23
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Denied Entry or Re-entry back to India on Multible Entry Visas

Immigration officials don't need to be covert. They just say no... Because they can.

But look dispassionately at the situation. Are the people that you mention doing visa runs on tourist visas? Then the surprise actually is the long period of time that India has been allowing this. Try that with UK!

But, unless you can distill some more relevant information from your Facebook group, we still have no useful information here.
#11 Jan 3rd, 2018, 16:51
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Post factual !

Quote:
Originally Posted by PIXIE99 View Post The note was posted on a facebook group for Westerners living or staying or visiting Puttparthi. The folks there are in touch with each other by means of the group. The retired embassy worker always alerts them to what is happening. I do agree there is no real hard evidence in this note so one could say it is hearsay, although the writer is sincere and well known to others in the Puttaparthi group in which the note was posted. The comments posted and a previous note from the warden, I have omitted to post here. This issue has been on going for some weeks now. I only posted the note to put it out there! Can this really be happening. Have others on here know or are aware of the problem as stated in the note. Has there been changes by visa officials that we are unaware of? - The note states that customs officers are using covert means to stop some people from entering India. Those denied entry are probably back to back visa holders who live/stay in Puttaparthi - and for some reason have not been allowed back.
I have not heard from my US contact as he could be sailing in the Caribbean But I get an emphatic no from my MEA (Ministry of Esternal Affairs) contact.

I am not trying to be rude or hard on you - But, this and other threads are in the open and indexable, which could give the uninitiated or post-factual acolytes a hook to amplify.

So let me peel away at issues that might throw the brextian trumpettes into a tizzy.

"Has there been changes by visa officials that we are unaware of?"


What changes are you talking about ?

Those denied entry are probably back to back visa holders who live/stay in Puttaparthi


You mean that they are flounting visa rules and living here ? And are indignant that their entitlements are restricted ? No country in the world, likes to be made a fool of by flaunting visitor visa rules. Even in Thailand, where most falangs do so, from time to time denies them entries.


The note states that customs officers are using covert means to stop some people from entering India.


Anyone who has either a) worked at a consular office, or b) anyone who has traveled more than few times, would know customs people cannot and never have the authority to deny entry - DOES NOT HAPPEN ! Here is the operational reason why !

I/O (Immigrations Officer) are the first officials one sees at the airport - They are the one's who decide whether to allow you or not. One only goes to a customs guys after picking up their checked luggage from the belt. If the warden or anyone in that group claims they were confused, only lends to credibility of the other details.

As I mentioned earlier, if LEAs met the returning passenger, then there is more than just being denied entry for visa-abuse.

As of few months ago (Which was my last visit to India) the I/O in India were in a operational straight-jacket - They have very little leeway. They look at the computer screen. IVFRT (Immigration, Visa and Foreigner's Registration & Tracking) does the backend heuristics. Only I/Os in UK,US,EU have infinite discretion to decide how many days a visitor is allowed in, or deny entry to any non-citizen, or send them to a secondary. I am told they use it rather liberally in the US
#12 Jan 3rd, 2018, 17:33
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PIXIE99, appreciate your concerns and intentions, but what nycank says is very right, and he has genuine lines of enquiry to back up his answers, which should actually put your concerns, if you think you were likely to be affected, at rest.

nycank... I thought/assumed Indian immigration officers had the same power as those others. Anyway, wouldn't like to get referred to their seniors. A charming young woman was about to get very non-charming about my couple of years in India since my last entry... until I remembered to show her my RP.

Assumptions are dangerous. Knowing what to trust on the internet is hard...
#13 Jan 4th, 2018, 03:16
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I wonder if Interpol has a line on those purported returned individuals, perhaps some funding sideline..
#14 Jan 4th, 2018, 03:23
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Originally Posted by nycank View Post I have not heard from my US contact as he could be sailing in the Caribbean
but dude, if it's on the internet it must be true!
#15 Jan 4th, 2018, 04:44
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post nycank... I thought/assumed Indian immigration officers had the same power as those others. Anyway, wouldn't like to get referred to their seniors. A charming young woman was about to get very non-charming about my couple of years in India since my last entry... until I remembered to show her my RP.
Eons ago, when some cry babies bemoaned the lugubrious visa process, and I did warn - Ask for a simplified process, and eventually you transfer authority to where it should not be - I/O at the border. Now, you can get e-visa, and many a countries can get 10-year T visa - Watch it become a mini-me.

Where does this authority come from ? When the system introduces flexibility into the visa system, or post-colonial hangups persist The I/O has to decide how many weeks/months a person is allowed into the country. For a Visitor/T/Tourist visa holder
  • Lack of return ticket
  • Uncontrovertial proof of ability to pay
  • Dubious reasons for asking for long stay
  • Offensive display of slogans on T-shirts
  • Cultural misappropriation
  • Rude behaviour
  • Whatever the particular I/O thinks is wrong with you

Is enough to deny entry !

Did I tell you about my Alan Arkin moment from the movie Million Dollar Arm No good deed goes unpunished.

I do not doubt that persons destined to some ashram were denied entry - I question the reason and FUD.

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