Ahimsa: When does it go too far?

sam_12 · Feb 4th, 2007, 20:20

ahimsa is a way of life for most people and we should respect that.An act of violence doesnt require courage and by roughing up someone,you eventually feel miserable as well coz you can not humiliate some one else without humiliating your self first.we dont even realize that we end up destroying something within us each time we fight or get involved in a brawl,coz what exists in me exists in each and every 1 of us.its like fighting against urself..how dumb is that?

Condi Rice420 · May 18th, 2007, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by amyl

haa.....am a Jain...and sometimes I give a laugh at their extremities of "Ahimsa". Am a Digambar Jain and there are loads of DOs n DONTs regarding non-violence..never read a book on it tho....but the other sect of Jain go a step further by putting a mask on their nose and mouth. I heard they beleive they would be killing the bacteria in the air they breathe or enters their mouth.

Jains....may be even in other beliefs....have a concept called Sallegna. My grandmom did it when all hopes were gone for her cancer, and my dad's uncle too did the same last year. Oh damn!.....I hate to even think of them when they were in that state. Its very depressing to know someone doing that infront of you - Giving Up!. They stop eating, taking medicines and all the other aids. Simply wait.

And to a certain extent thats the best decision one would take given the circumstances but its really really painful for their loved ones. And this is the time when we have to give up infront of DEATH.

I am Gujarati and have Jain relatives, the process you are referring to is called santara where I come from. It is used in very extreme conditions, though I have heard some perfectly fit sadhus/sadhvis do it.

PeakXV · May 18th, 2007, 09:05

There should be a moral & ethical periodic review in regards to an animal's degree of suffering .... and then a life or death decision made accordingly. That would be the more humane process.

It could be argued that not killing the dum & slow female mosquitoes and thus letting them fly away to propogate another day (to produce more dum and slow mosquitoes

) might well do more harm to the species overall then slapping the little ba$tard's brains in. Wasn't it Darwin who talked about that in his survival of the fittest talks .....,.

Condi Rice420 · May 18th, 2007, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

There should be a moral & ethical periodic review in regards to an animal's degree of suffering .... and then a life or death decision made accordingly. That would be the more humane process.

It could be argued that not killing the dum & slow female mosquitoes and thus letting them fly away to propogate another day (to produce more dum and slow mosquitoes

) might well do more harm to the species overall then slapping the little ba$tard's brains in. Wasn't it Darwin who talked about that in his survival of the fittest talks .....,.

Mosquitos have been around since before the dinosaurs, in my book they are pretty damn 'fit'.

PeakXV · May 18th, 2007, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condi Rice420

Mosquitos have been around since before the dinosaurs, in my book they are pretty damn 'fit'.

Precisely! ... because the majority us are only fast enough to smash the dum, unfit ones into oblivion - thus leaving the fast, peppy, quick biting ones to prosper & procreate till the cows come home.

Condi Rice420 · May 18th, 2007, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

Precisely!

... because the majority of us smash the dum, unfit ones into oblivion - thus leaving the fast,peppy, quick biting ones to procreate till the cows come home.

Haha never though of it like that.

Familyonthemove · May 18th, 2007, 11:35

Maybe I'm just a terminal cynic - but I was wondering if some animal hospitals keep suffering animals alive because they are good for bringing in donations from sympathetic visitors?

Similar to adults using drugged babies when begging at traffic lights?

But what a great point about a religion with an extreme arm that may be too kind! Makes a change from the extremist in most other religions.

... by the way .... I use an electric 'tennis racket' and chemical weapons to commit mass murder with mozzies. I have a 7 year old daughter to protect - and that takes priority in my book.

shashank.aggarwal · May 18th, 2007, 11:47

well all the points accepted..but has anyone thought..
what should be done..should the injured/ailing bird left on the street to die..??

lotus blossom · May 18th, 2007, 12:06

funny how we cannot really know who we think we are until situations prove it to us. did that make sense?

for the longest time, i thought i was pretty committed to a path of ahimsa. then last year i had to set up bait stations in my house because mice were eating holes in the walls. the live traps didn't really work

and after months in india, observing the misery that some animals were in, i realized that i cannot claim to practice ahimsa because i truly think that some of those poor souls would be much better off if they were in another place; in other words, not in this world. in varanasi, i saw some very sick dogs (that would drag themselves along) that i really felt would be better off dead.

there is an ongoing issue in my town re 'no-kill' shelters; those that think all stray and abondoned animals should be allowed to live, even if it means being confined to a tiny cage with virtually no healthy interaction. others feel it is inhumane and not feasible to keep all such animals alive. i'm not really sure what the answer is, because many of the strays are healthy. some are old, some may have a health condition, but many are adoptable, so it's sad to know that they've been abandoned.

one of the issues, i think, is our hangup about death and dying. personally, i'd prefer death to a miserable existence.

Nick-H · May 18th, 2007, 12:26

Oh dear, I think only God has the answer to these questions --- nd [s]he hasn't logged in for a while.

Familyonthemove... I'm terminally cynical too, and India makes me even more so, but I don't think animal shelters need to do that. What's more, I'm afraid that most people would be more moved by a reasonably fit puppy than by a truly, really sick animal.

As for the mossie-bashing... never mind the family, I have me to protect. And I would do the same even without the possibility of dangerous diseases. My ultra-violet-light insect killer also attracts other insects as well as flies and mosquitoes, many of which, before coming to India, I would have spent time and effort rescuing from the house.

capt_mahajan · May 18th, 2007, 12:34

Over the years, we euthanised two of our dogs, a third pup was critically ill when we brought him home, and died within weeks.

Even though I still feel guilt about the euthanisia often, and it was heart wrenching for my then small children to see a sick puppy die , I would do it again.

Coz I believe our humanity lies in the way we treat others, and not in principles which can be debated to death. Kindness in not debatable, and is universal.

But hey, I kill mosquitoes too

May 18th, 2007, 09:05	#18
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 4,512	There should be a moral & ethical periodic review in regards to an animal's degree of suffering .... and then a life or death decision made accordingly. That would be the more humane process. It could be argued that not killing the dum & slow female mosquitoes and thus letting them fly away to propogate another day (to produce more dum and slow mosquitoes ) might well do more harm to the species overall then slapping the little ba$tard's brains in. Wasn't it Darwin who talked about that in his survival of the fittest talks .....,. __________________ What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us. ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

May 18th, 2007, 11:47	#23
shashank.aggarwal Maha Guru Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: ~ Dilli ~ Posts: 5,925	well all the points accepted..but has anyone thought.. what should be done..should the injured/ailing bird left on the street to die..?? __________________ Travelogue - Around India Random Reviews

May 18th, 2007, 12:06	#24
lotus blossom re-member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: revolving around the sun standing still Posts: 1,893	funny how we cannot really know who we think we are until situations prove it to us. did that make sense? for the longest time, i thought i was pretty committed to a path of ahimsa. then last year i had to set up bait stations in my house because mice were eating holes in the walls. the live traps didn't really work and after months in india, observing the misery that some animals were in, i realized that i cannot claim to practice ahimsa because i truly think that some of those poor souls would be much better off if they were in another place; in other words, not in this world. in varanasi, i saw some very sick dogs (that would drag themselves along) that i really felt would be better off dead. there is an ongoing issue in my town re 'no-kill' shelters; those that think all stray and abondoned animals should be allowed to live, even if it means being confined to a tiny cage with virtually no healthy interaction. others feel it is inhumane and not feasible to keep all such animals alive. i'm not really sure what the answer is, because many of the strays are healthy. some are old, some may have a health condition, but many are adoptable, so it's sad to know that they've been abandoned. one of the issues, i think, is our hangup about death and dying. personally, i'd prefer death to a miserable existence. __________________ Not all who wander are lost

May 18th, 2007, 12:26	#25
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 28,368	Oh dear, I think only God has the answer to these questions --- nd [s]he hasn't logged in for a while. Familyonthemove... I'm terminally cynical too, and India makes me even more so, but I don't think animal shelters need to do that. What's more, I'm afraid that most people would be more moved by a reasonably fit puppy than by a truly, really sick animal. As for the mossie-bashing... never mind the family, I have me to protect. And I would do the same even without the possibility of dangerous diseases. My ultra-violet-light insect killer also attracts other insects as well as flies and mosquitoes, many of which, before coming to India, I would have spent time and effort rescuing from the house. __________________ . Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

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Feb 4th, 2007, 20:20	#16
sam_12 Account Closed Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: gurgaon Posts: 60	ahimsa is a way of life for most people and we should respect that.An act of violence doesnt require courage and by roughing up someone,you eventually feel miserable as well coz you can not humiliate some one else without humiliating your self first.we dont even realize that we end up destroying something within us each time we fight or get involved in a brawl,coz what exists in me exists in each and every 1 of us.its like fighting against urself..how dumb is that?

May 18th, 2007, 11:35	#22
Familyonthemove Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On the move Posts: 288	Maybe I'm just a terminal cynic - but I was wondering if some animal hospitals keep suffering animals alive because they are good for bringing in donations from sympathetic visitors? Similar to adults using drugged babies when begging at traffic lights? But what a great point about a religion with an extreme arm that may be too kind! Makes a change from the extremist in most other religions. ... by the way .... I use an electric 'tennis racket' and chemical weapons to commit mass murder with mozzies. I have a 7 year old daughter to protect - and that takes priority in my book.

May 18th, 2007, 12:34	#26
capt_mahajan Dis member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 10,864	Over the years, we euthanised two of our dogs, a third pup was critically ill when we brought him home, and died within weeks. Even though I still feel guilt about the euthanisia often, and it was heart wrenching for my then small children to see a sick puppy die , I would do it again. Coz I believe our humanity lies in the way we treat others, and not in principles which can be debated to death. Kindness in not debatable, and is universal. But hey, I kill mosquitoes too

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