Unavoidable, that's what it is

Spine · Dec 3rd, 2003, 18:13

Man it is just unavoidable, if your going to start off in dehli it seems that even when u follow the guide book to the letter and other peoples advice and even if you take every word the driver and others as suspect until proven right u will get scammed.

I'd like to hear from a more experienced traveller how they deal with it.

My story is as follows:
they pick u up at the airport and despite u prepaying for them to take u to a hotel of your choice they take u to the one where they get commision (they in fact took us to an area 30 mins from where our hotel is, telling us that due to the metro works we can't drive there (despite the metro works having gone on for the past 5 yrs, due to be completed jin 15), then when they fake that they can't find our place they take us to a fake tourism office (one of there compardriates who wants to sell us a bus with a driver for Us$1000 for 3 weeks, a total rip off) after driving around trying to establish with us that the only hotel on offer was our only option (still not true since the hotel we booked was waiting for us accross town), eventually it's 3am and we have run out of energy to fight and we cave in for a US$60 room (really over priced but talked down from like us$90, I have jake to thank for us not getting swindeled badly, he really knows his shit) so we stayed the nite, they gave us complimentary breakfast and a free cab ride to the train station (that again pushed the US$1000 bus trip) and eventually we escaped trhem

man they've read the guide books so they know ur attempts to thwart them and they counter that,
HOW DO U DEAL WITH THEM AHHHHHH!!!! still an amazing place (my second day here and leaving for rajahstan tommorrow)

Alan D · Dec 3rd, 2003, 18:48

Spine

Look on the bright side - you didn't end up in a houseboat on the Dal Lake in Kashmir!

Sounds like you met some smooth operators. We try to warn people on this forum about scams like this - if you're not sure you will be able to handle the arrival then arrange for your hotel to pick you up at the airport. It may cost a little more but they have a vested interest in getting you there.

Don't worry, put it down to experience and don't get fooled again!

bijapuri · Dec 4th, 2003, 01:46

at least you didn't get a big pile of doo-doo thrown on your shoes followed by an offer to clean them, as happened to a friend of mine his first day in Delhi!
Thanx for sharing your story. These scammers have no care that stories and expereinces like this put many, many people off from even trying India, much less than returning. You seem to have a great attitude, and that'll get you far in Ma India!

Alan D · Dec 4th, 2003, 02:35

Ah, the old shit on the shoe scam!

I'm an expert on that one - it happened to me twice. The first time I thought it was vulture shit that had come down from one of the high buildings.

I never go near Palika Bazaar these days.

By the way I never gave anyone the satisfaction of cleaning it off. B******s!

indiamike · Dec 4th, 2003, 04:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan D
Ah, the old shit on the shoe scam!

I'm an expert on that one - it happened to me twice. I never go near Palika Bazaar these days.

After four months I thought I had all the scams figured out and on the day before I was to leave I was feeling pretty confident in myself that I was finally getting the hang of it all and blammo...the old poop on the shoe. I think it's actually henna paste.....but none the less...I was pretty pissed off.

When passing Palika Bazaar walk quickly or cross the road and never stop to talk to anyone.

I agree with Alan, chock it up to experience and remember your not the only one.

Worse comes to worse and you feel uncomfortable in a situation just walk away.

Mike

Spine · Dec 4th, 2003, 19:51

Tanx for all the replys (best forum for india on the net) But had another thought.

What if you asked to be dropped at a tourist site/location which was visually identifiable (i.e. the dehli trrain station) then you could at least know that your being taken near your place,

MAy not work as they might just say they don't know where it is but since most backpackers goto the main bazaar it might be wise just going to the train station and walking from there to the main bazaar.

Neway
just wanted to say tanx for the replys

bijapuri · Dec 4th, 2003, 23:23

Regarding the "SOS" scam my friend was walking by himself. Is this the pattern, or has this happened to those walking with someone as well?

Always liked Palika, but so many malls in Delhi now, no need to go there, really.

Alan D · Dec 5th, 2003, 02:23

Single, double or even a whole tour group, I don't think it would matter. I haven't heard any recent reports of this scam so perhaps Delhi Police ( motto - always with you and at your door) have tickled them with their lathis. I hope so.

neoncarrot · Dec 5th, 2003, 06:04

With regards to Spines original post re prepaid taxis, the trick I've found is NEVER ever let go of the pink slip till you are verifiably where you want to go, and if that includes going in to actually ask, so be it. If you dont give the guy the pink prepaid slip, he wont get his money from the cops; letting him know that you know usually cuts through the crap sharpish.

As to the guy giving you the "this hotel destroyed by terrorists" or whatever number, again just tell him you want to go there, you LIKE rubble, and if you dont go there, no pink slip.

The last driver from the airport in July this year didnt listen at all to what I said about 4 times; "connaught Place, D'block", very, very clearly, and instead took us to another entirely unrelated D Block somewhere in Patel Nagar - we didnt notice cos we were half asleep. He then started grumbling about the extra cost in petrol to go the extra 20KM. A brief conversation about the whereabouts of the pink slip and we were off.

The number of times I've had to stop people literally grabbing the slip from my hands just outside the door defies belief. As an additional point re the prepaid cabs, always, always check that the number written on the pink slip tallies with the cars actual plate number. Plenty of freelancers down at the airport will happlily take you away from the intended driver assuming they can terrorise you into their fave fleapit. A rickshaw driver "friend" tells me if he gets someone into a certain Karol Bagh hotel at the charge of 150 USD, he gets to keep 90 percent of the first night charge, and 50 percent of the days after.

I reckon you get less grief around Connaught / Place palika Bazaar these days since the Metro ate the park in the middle; many of the hawkers have moved on to new pastures. We still like to sit a couple of hours on the grass above Palika, but get less hassle since becoming regular customers of one of the young chaiwallahs. I am more than happy to drink 3 or 4 chai an hour, and he just chases away any scammer treading on his patch, ie us.

Alan D · Dec 5th, 2003, 16:17

neoncarrott

Thanks for bringing the topic back online. As often happens we tended to drift off a bit!

Spine said

Quote:

they pick u up at the airport and despite u prepaying for them to take u to a hotel of your choice they take u to the one where they get commision

Spine

Do you literally mean "they"? Did you have another person in the taxi e. g. a "friend" of the driver? If you did then that is a mistake from the beginning. The dodgy taxi drivers at Delhi airport generally work this way. It means they can bring more pressure on a passenger(s). There are big bucks to be made out of these scams. Not only that, if the taxi driver has scammed you, then you get passed onto others who see you as an easy target. Insist that you go with the driver only and complain at the police pre-paid booth until this happens. And, as has been said many times, never believe anything a driver says about your intended hotel. You are booked in there, right, and that's the only place you're going to!

Having said this I'm sure most taxi drivers at the airport are decent guys just trying to make a living and on about five arrivals there we've never had a problem.

For more posts on arriving at Delhi airport you might like to read this thread

Colin · Dec 6th, 2003, 02:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan D
neoncarrott

Having said this I'm sure most taxi drivers at the airport are decent guys just trying to make a living and on about five arrivals there we've never had a problem.

Thanks Alan, I too have arrived at Delhi on several occasions and I have never had a problem, have taken pre-paid, the EATS bus, changed money and other than the normal care one takes with strangers, I never felt as if I had descended into the pit of death as some would have you believe.

pooch · Dec 6th, 2003, 03:36

Like my other post on touts I will be risking being labelled a ruffian but it just doesn't help being patient and polite with these sorts. The taxi thing happened from Mumbai airport to a pre determined hotel but of course I was taken on a 2 km detour and I was only being polite when I got off the taxi and pretended to check out the 5 or so hotels the taxi driver was recommending. I lost my head though when he demanded 100 pounds as his fare. He would walk into the reception with me and attempt to pull me by my hand to animate what he means. Two punches and a glare at his mate solved the prob. 60 rs he settled at

) I am not reommending violence here, I strongly detest any sort of violence but for those unable to tolerate shite like me , it works

pooch · Dec 6th, 2003, 03:41

Alan D, what's the added precaution with the driver's mate all about ? the airport doesn't have them coming in pairs as such but it's very common from railway stations. I always thought it's just a mate they bring along to while away their time between arrivals.

Colin · Dec 6th, 2003, 04:08

pooch, it goes like this, the driver opens the back door for you after you have loaded your bags in the boot (trunk), you climb in and just as you are about to leave, another guy climbs in the front passenger seat. You say to the driver 'who is this man?' the driver replies 'he is my friend' you say 'is he paying half the fare?' the driver laughs, 'no he is just to keep me company', you say 'tell him either he pays half the fare or he can get out, this is my taxi!' at this point you open the door and make as if to alight, the driver will then have a furious exchange with his 'friend' and either the friend will leave or you leave, there are plenty of other taxis, just make sure he doesn't speed off with your bag still in the boot!

Tomi · Dec 6th, 2003, 05:16

In some cases the "friend" is part owner of the taxi or the real owner, while the fellow that picked you up is really a tout. Then, as is the case with all touts and scam artists, they don't trust each other and want to be around to make sure they get their share.

A fun way to get at them that does not involve violence (and believe me, pooch, I'm not against it and what you did probably allowed you to be nice later to people who really deserve it), is to separate them while you negotiate the price with the other, preferably paying him in secret. That way the "friend" will be sure to suspect his partner.

Another reason might be that they expect you to tip them both. Just like it takes 5 room boys to help you with your luggage up the stairs and turning on the TV and the shower for you to see once in your room. Then a 6th and a 7th arrive with the missing towels and toilet paper. They think you are going to tip them all. It's sad, I admit, many of these guys are desperate, but it's a nuisance for the traveler.

Dec 3rd, 2003, 18:13	#1
Spine The Raj of Melbourne Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20	Unavoidable, that's what it is Man it is just unavoidable, if your going to start off in dehli it seems that even when u follow the guide book to the letter and other peoples advice and even if you take every word the driver and others as suspect until proven right u will get scammed. I'd like to hear from a more experienced traveller how they deal with it. My story is as follows: they pick u up at the airport and despite u prepaying for them to take u to a hotel of your choice they take u to the one where they get commision (they in fact took us to an area 30 mins from where our hotel is, telling us that due to the metro works we can't drive there (despite the metro works having gone on for the past 5 yrs, due to be completed jin 15), then when they fake that they can't find our place they take us to a fake tourism office (one of there compardriates who wants to sell us a bus with a driver for Us$1000 for 3 weeks, a total rip off) after driving around trying to establish with us that the only hotel on offer was our only option (still not true since the hotel we booked was waiting for us accross town), eventually it's 3am and we have run out of energy to fight and we cave in for a US$60 room (really over priced but talked down from like us$90, I have jake to thank for us not getting swindeled badly, he really knows his shit) so we stayed the nite, they gave us complimentary breakfast and a free cab ride to the train station (that again pushed the US$1000 bus trip) and eventually we escaped trhem man they've read the guide books so they know ur attempts to thwart them and they counter that, HOW DO U DEAL WITH THEM AHHHHHH!!!! still an amazing place (my second day here and leaving for rajahstan tommorrow)

Dec 4th, 2003, 01:46	#3
bijapuri laid traps for troubadours Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Priustan Posts: 2,602	at least you didn't get a big pile of doo-doo thrown on your shoes followed by an offer to clean them, as happened to a friend of mine his first day in Delhi! Thanx for sharing your story. These scammers have no care that stories and expereinces like this put many, many people off from even trying India, much less than returning. You seem to have a great attitude, and that'll get you far in Ma India! __________________ Focusing your life solely on making a buck shows a certain poverty of ambition. It asks too little of yourself. Because it's only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you realize your true potential. Barack Obama lookit me!!!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bijapuri/ Utube fuzzy logic: http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=bijapuri&p =r

Dec 4th, 2003, 19:51	#6
Spine The Raj of Melbourne Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Melbourne Posts: 20	Tanx Tanx for all the replys (best forum for india on the net) But had another thought. What if you asked to be dropped at a tourist site/location which was visually identifiable (i.e. the dehli trrain station) then you could at least know that your being taken near your place, MAy not work as they might just say they don't know where it is but since most backpackers goto the main bazaar it might be wise just going to the train station and walking from there to the main bazaar. Neway just wanted to say tanx for the replys

Dec 5th, 2003, 06:04	#9
neoncarrot Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Manali, India Posts: 84	With regards to Spines original post re prepaid taxis, the trick I've found is NEVER ever let go of the pink slip till you are verifiably where you want to go, and if that includes going in to actually ask, so be it. If you dont give the guy the pink prepaid slip, he wont get his money from the cops; letting him know that you know usually cuts through the crap sharpish. As to the guy giving you the "this hotel destroyed by terrorists" or whatever number, again just tell him you want to go there, you LIKE rubble, and if you dont go there, no pink slip. The last driver from the airport in July this year didnt listen at all to what I said about 4 times; "connaught Place, D'block", very, very clearly, and instead took us to another entirely unrelated D Block somewhere in Patel Nagar - we didnt notice cos we were half asleep. He then started grumbling about the extra cost in petrol to go the extra 20KM. A brief conversation about the whereabouts of the pink slip and we were off. The number of times I've had to stop people literally grabbing the slip from my hands just outside the door defies belief. As an additional point re the prepaid cabs, always, always check that the number written on the pink slip tallies with the cars actual plate number. Plenty of freelancers down at the airport will happlily take you away from the intended driver assuming they can terrorise you into their fave fleapit. A rickshaw driver "friend" tells me if he gets someone into a certain Karol Bagh hotel at the charge of 150 USD, he gets to keep 90 percent of the first night charge, and 50 percent of the days after. I reckon you get less grief around Connaught / Place palika Bazaar these days since the Metro ate the park in the middle; many of the hawkers have moved on to new pastures. We still like to sit a couple of hours on the grass above Palika, but get less hassle since becoming regular customers of one of the young chaiwallahs. I am more than happy to drink 3 or 4 chai an hour, and he just chases away any scammer treading on his patch, ie us. __________________ Photo galleries, essays, travel tips and India statistics at: Neoncarrot India travelog

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Dec 3rd, 2003, 18:48	#2
Alan D Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 1,866	Spine Look on the bright side - you didn't end up in a houseboat on the Dal Lake in Kashmir! Sounds like you met some smooth operators. We try to warn people on this forum about scams like this - if you're not sure you will be able to handle the arrival then arrange for your hotel to pick you up at the airport. It may cost a little more but they have a vested interest in getting you there. Don't worry, put it down to experience and don't get fooled again!

Dec 4th, 2003, 02:35	#4
Alan D Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 1,866	Ah, the old shit on the shoe scam! I'm an expert on that one - it happened to me twice. The first time I thought it was vulture shit that had come down from one of the high buildings. I never go near Palika Bazaar these days. By the way I never gave anyone the satisfaction of cleaning it off. B******s!

Dec 4th, 2003, 23:23	#7
bijapuri laid traps for troubadours Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Priustan Posts: 2,602	Regarding the "SOS" scam my friend was walking by himself. Is this the pattern, or has this happened to those walking with someone as well? Always liked Palika, but so many malls in Delhi now, no need to go there, really.

Dec 5th, 2003, 02:23	#8
Alan D Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 1,866	Single, double or even a whole tour group, I don't think it would matter. I haven't heard any recent reports of this scam so perhaps Delhi Police ( motto - always with you and at your door) have tickled them with their lathis. I hope so.

Dec 6th, 2003, 03:36	#12
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Middle East <---->India Posts: 384	Like my other post on touts I will be risking being labelled a ruffian but it just doesn't help being patient and polite with these sorts. The taxi thing happened from Mumbai airport to a pre determined hotel but of course I was taken on a 2 km detour and I was only being polite when I got off the taxi and pretended to check out the 5 or so hotels the taxi driver was recommending. I lost my head though when he demanded 100 pounds as his fare. He would walk into the reception with me and attempt to pull me by my hand to animate what he means. Two punches and a glare at his mate solved the prob. 60 rs he settled at ) I am not reommending violence here, I strongly detest any sort of violence but for those unable to tolerate shite like me , it works

Dec 6th, 2003, 03:41	#13
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Middle East <---->India Posts: 384	Alan D, what's the added precaution with the driver's mate all about ? the airport doesn't have them coming in pairs as such but it's very common from railway stations. I always thought it's just a mate they bring along to while away their time between arrivals.

Dec 6th, 2003, 04:08	#14
Colin Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Pai, Mae Hong Son, Thailand Posts: 208	pooch, it goes like this, the driver opens the back door for you after you have loaded your bags in the boot (trunk), you climb in and just as you are about to leave, another guy climbs in the front passenger seat. You say to the driver 'who is this man?' the driver replies 'he is my friend' you say 'is he paying half the fare?' the driver laughs, 'no he is just to keep me company', you say 'tell him either he pays half the fare or he can get out, this is my taxi!' at this point you open the door and make as if to alight, the driver will then have a furious exchange with his 'friend' and either the friend will leave or you leave, there are plenty of other taxis, just make sure he doesn't speed off with your bag still in the boot!

Dec 6th, 2003, 05:16	#15
Tomi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cambridge, MA, USA Posts: 448	In some cases the "friend" is part owner of the taxi or the real owner, while the fellow that picked you up is really a tout. Then, as is the case with all touts and scam artists, they don't trust each other and want to be around to make sure they get their share. A fun way to get at them that does not involve violence (and believe me, pooch, I'm not against it and what you did probably allowed you to be nice later to people who really deserve it), is to separate them while you negotiate the price with the other, preferably paying him in secret. That way the "friend" will be sure to suspect his partner. Another reason might be that they expect you to tip them both. Just like it takes 5 room boys to help you with your luggage up the stairs and turning on the TV and the shower for you to see once in your room. Then a 6th and a 7th arrive with the missing towels and toilet paper. They think you are going to tip them all. It's sad, I admit, many of these guys are desperate, but it's a nuisance for the traveler.

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