Delhi - No More Beggars?

Aishah · Jan 30th, 2008, 09:20

In Times of India today there is an article concerning the elimination of all beggars out of Delhi. My guess this is in preparation for the Commonwealth Games in 2010. There is a centre which will contain a 'biometric machine' - measuring fingerprints, height and taking a photo - at Kingsway Camp where all arrested beggars are first taken. After their arrest there is supposedly a rehabilitation process but this is all very vague, more emphasis is put on the arrest and tagging of these people. I am wondering what rehabilitation processes are in place now? And what will become of them?

If Mods know another thread with this information, please merge my Post into it! Also, I would be grateful for any Mod to put in that link from Times of India for me. It's on opening page to further article.

capt_mahajan · Jan 30th, 2008, 09:26

Quote:

the elimination of all beggars out of Delhi

Cyanide? Or a shallow grave?

Methinks they are taking the 2010 games too seriously.

Or maybe they will napalm the Delhi slums next

iwanttogoback · Jan 30th, 2008, 09:51

sounds like something out of rohinton mistry's 'a fine balance.'

cap'n, they all take the games too seriously. and it's never good for the vulnerable who are in their way.

on a lighter note, a friend just back from beijing was telling us that people could apply for grants to plant gardens on their roofs so as to make the city greener from the air. and if you weren't lucky enough to get a garden grant, you might get a grant to buy green paint.

machadinha · Jan 30th, 2008, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aishah

Also, I would be grateful for any Mod to put in that link from Times of India for me. It's on opening page to further article.

I find nothing on it in a jiffy. Online newspaper editions will often lag behind paper editions, but I think you said you saw it online. Check http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ . Aishah, if you want to link to such an article, you can just copy its address (in the address bar of your browser, would be indiamike dot blah whatever to link to this page), then paste it into your post.

capt_mahajan · Jan 30th, 2008, 09:59

Here's the link Aishah wanted put up

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/C...ow/2741580.cms

Aishah · Jan 30th, 2008, 17:43

Thanks Mods for that - yes, Captain, early morning and I just couldn't think of the appropriate word for 'getting rid of' which basically this was all about. Elimination does sound rather strong as you rightly pointed out! Brings to mind quotas for sterilization which I learned about in A Fine Balance and Indira Ghandi's Emergency etc. Honestly, can one see Delhi without her beggars? Or anywhere in India for that matter? As you mention Captain I think they are taking the Games too far, but if it gets the Metro to the Airport, then good.

Scandojazzbuff · Jan 30th, 2008, 17:56

What???!!! No beggars in Delhi? Outrageous. Rehabilitation? What does this mean? More innovative ways of asking for money? Better English skills? Song and dance routines?

No amount of sweeping under the rug is going to hide India's inadequacies and blatant disregard for its own people. Sorry to be so blunt, but, India doesn't exactly suffer from food shortages or intelligent people.

Aishah · Jan 30th, 2008, 19:05

You're right Scandojazzbuff - I've always thought without corruption no one would be without food or shelter here. There are too many sweeping under the carpet measures without getting down to the nitty gritty of life. Corruption however is historically so ingrained and accepted as a normal way of life - this is only going to hold India up in social welfare areas.
I wondered about rehabilitation and posted because others here may have heard what they do?

karuna · Feb 11th, 2008, 02:46

I remember when Cardiff entered the European Capital of Culture competition a few years back, I had a friend working for the campaign team. She told me that all homeless people in the city centre were quietly "moved on" on the day the judges visited.

Sick, isn't it?

atala · Feb 11th, 2008, 16:10

Begging in India is a lucrative kind of job, once the initial inhibition threshold to one's feelings of honor is crossed. Children make easily several thousand Rupees per month, once they know the tricks of the trade. In comparison, a house-maid may make about 1400-1800 Rupees for a 50 hour week (in rural area, I do not know about Delhi), perhaps half of what a successful beggar makes.

vargoje3 · Feb 11th, 2008, 16:14

Impossible.

machadinha · Feb 11th, 2008, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by atala

Begging in India is a lucrative kind of job, once the initial inhibition threshold to one's feelings of honor is crossed. Children make easily several thousand Rupees per month

You could have fooled me you tried it yourself. Have you?

What I never get about beggars anywhere in the world is we're supposed to look down on them because they're way below us and generally the scum of the earth, yet we are supposed to envy them because as we all know they're far better off than us (and lord forbid, they don't even have to work for it! How devious is that!)

One feels a choice must be made here, it can be one or the other but the two are hard to logically combine.

atala · Feb 11th, 2008, 16:50

Quote:

Income

The beggars are fairly well-organized although they not unionized. They view new beggars with suspicion and try to find out his/her depth by typical questionnaires. They have a means of estimating and budgeting income and expenses. A small town beggar has a hard time to raise two to three Rupees per day while a city beggar can easily earn ten bucks. During the festivals, they could earn as much as thirty Rupees (the time of this writing). For commoners, this may look like a paltry sum, but we have to understand that the beggars do not have any expenses. No rent, no groceries to buy. The leftovers from the hotels is their dinner; else every beggar typically has a godmother who never refuses food for him/her. The roadside food courts typically provide discount prices to beggars. They travel in buses which have friendly conductors, without tickets and they always know that temples/churches/railway stations can be used for toilet and sleeping. Since they do not have a safe place to keep money, they carry with them all the time. I know of an old beggar lady who passed away and they found her shawl embedded with currency notes which amounted to two thousand rupees.

not sure when this was written, definitely much earlier than when posted online

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/bhiksha/begging.htm

Hyderabad to give I-cards to beggars

Pioneer News Service/ Hyderabad

Hyderabad has as many as 10,466 beggars and many of them have an average monthly "income" of Rs 2,400.

These are some of the startling facts brought to light by a study conducted by the Hyderabad district administration and a non governmental organisation, Hyderabad Council of Human Welfare. The study was done to evolve a plan of action to make the city "beggar-free" through their rehabilitation.

Releasing the details of the study, Hyderabad District Collector Arvind Kumar said, the administration will provide all the beggars with identity cards and rehabilitate them with in six months. The administration wants to give top priority to the adolescent girls, physically challenged, children and the aged in the matter of rehabilitation.

When beggars become choosers

It was found that there are 2,517 beggars in the city and their daily collection varies between Rs. 50 and Rs. 200. In some cases, the earnings are as high as Rs. 500. The volunteers also discovered to their surprise that there are beggars who travel by auto rickshaws to the various places they choose to operate from and return at the end of the day in a similar manner.

" The problem of the beggar is the problem of the giver," says K.N. George, director MSSW, who headed the survey. "When a beggar can earn Rs. 100 to Rs. 200 a day, why should he look for a job at all? He will continue to be a parasite, thriving on society's largesse, until the giver realises that to a beggar, begging is just another profession."
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/m...2700110200.htm

...children on the begging trail collecting even upto Rs. 500 a day. Begging is controlled by a mafia and children on the begging trail have fixed routes and fixed monetary targets, failure of which can bring severe punishment. Which also reportedly force young girls to sell themselves to make up the deficit."

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/m...1301370100.htm

machadinha · Feb 11th, 2008, 17:02

Quote:

The managers are fairly well-organized although they not unionized. They view new managers with suspicion and try to find out his/her depth by typical questionnaires. They have a means of estimating and budgeting income and expenses. A small town manager has a hard time to raise X Rupees per day while a city manager can easily earn Z bucks.

I'll leave it at that. The merits of earning Rs. 30 a day for lack of a roof over your head you'll excuse me for not wanting to get into to. But I will say a heart-felt: Godd*mn.

As in:

Quote:

I know of an old beggar lady who passed away and they found her shawl embedded with currency notes which amounted to two thousand rupees.

My, my, two thousand Rupees! Probably her life savings! Astounding! Shame! That's less than 35 Euros folks. I will not use those two words that spring to mind. But they very much do.

atala · Feb 11th, 2008, 17:14

You did not read my comment, that thew first quote must have been written decades ago, when 2000 Rupees were a lot of money. (otherwise it would not be worth mentioning).

Just read the other stories and links I provided.

Jan 30th, 2008, 09:20	#1
Aishah She-who-must-be-obeyed! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jaisalmer Posts: 5,682	Delhi - No More Beggars? In Times of India today there is an article concerning the elimination of all beggars out of Delhi. My guess this is in preparation for the Commonwealth Games in 2010. There is a centre which will contain a 'biometric machine' - measuring fingerprints, height and taking a photo - at Kingsway Camp where all arrested beggars are first taken. After their arrest there is supposedly a rehabilitation process but this is all very vague, more emphasis is put on the arrest and tagging of these people. I am wondering what rehabilitation processes are in place now? And what will become of them? If Mods know another thread with this information, please merge my Post into it! Also, I would be grateful for any Mod to put in that link from Times of India for me. It's on opening page to further article. __________________ "Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards."

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Jan 30th, 2008, 09:51	#3
iwanttogoback is sorry Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: perth Posts: 1,595	sounds like something out of rohinton mistry's 'a fine balance.' cap'n, they all take the games too seriously. and it's never good for the vulnerable who are in their way. on a lighter note, a friend just back from beijing was telling us that people could apply for grants to plant gardens on their roofs so as to make the city greener from the air. and if you weren't lucky enough to get a garden grant, you might get a grant to buy green paint.

Jan 30th, 2008, 09:59	#5
capt_mahajan Dis member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: India Posts: 10,864	Here's the link Aishah wanted put up http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/C...ow/2741580.cms

Jan 30th, 2008, 17:43	#6
Aishah She-who-must-be-obeyed! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jaisalmer Posts: 5,682	Thanks Mods for that - yes, Captain, early morning and I just couldn't think of the appropriate word for 'getting rid of' which basically this was all about. Elimination does sound rather strong as you rightly pointed out! Brings to mind quotas for sterilization which I learned about in A Fine Balance and Indira Ghandi's Emergency etc. Honestly, can one see Delhi without her beggars? Or anywhere in India for that matter? As you mention Captain I think they are taking the Games too far, but if it gets the Metro to the Airport, then good.

Jan 30th, 2008, 17:56	#7
Scandojazzbuff Maha Guru Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangkok Posts: 506	What???!!! No beggars in Delhi? Outrageous. Rehabilitation? What does this mean? More innovative ways of asking for money? Better English skills? Song and dance routines? No amount of sweeping under the rug is going to hide India's inadequacies and blatant disregard for its own people. Sorry to be so blunt, but, India doesn't exactly suffer from food shortages or intelligent people.

Jan 30th, 2008, 19:05	#8
Aishah She-who-must-be-obeyed! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jaisalmer Posts: 5,682	You're right Scandojazzbuff - I've always thought without corruption no one would be without food or shelter here. There are too many sweeping under the carpet measures without getting down to the nitty gritty of life. Corruption however is historically so ingrained and accepted as a normal way of life - this is only going to hold India up in social welfare areas. I wondered about rehabilitation and posted because others here may have heard what they do?

Feb 11th, 2008, 02:46	#9
karuna The cat's mother Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the wrong side of the Y-A-M-U-N-A Posts: 2,012	I remember when Cardiff entered the European Capital of Culture competition a few years back, I had a friend working for the campaign team. She told me that all homeless people in the city centre were quietly "moved on" on the day the judges visited. Sick, isn't it?

Feb 11th, 2008, 16:10	#10
atala Senior Member, 8 yrs in India Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Switzerland, just back from India 2008 Posts: 691	Begging in India is a lucrative kind of job, once the initial inhibition threshold to one's feelings of honor is crossed. Children make easily several thousand Rupees per month, once they know the tricks of the trade. In comparison, a house-maid may make about 1400-1800 Rupees for a 50 hour week (in rural area, I do not know about Delhi), perhaps half of what a successful beggar makes.

Feb 11th, 2008, 16:14	#11
vargoje3 Fishing Master Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 177	Impossible.

Feb 11th, 2008, 17:14	#15
atala Senior Member, 8 yrs in India Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Switzerland, just back from India 2008 Posts: 691	You did not read my comment, that thew first quote must have been written decades ago, when 2000 Rupees were a lot of money. (otherwise it would not be worth mentioning). Just read the other stories and links I provided.

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