Travelling Overland From Europe to India

Shiver me Timbers · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:01

Every so often on IM we have people wondering about travelling overland to India, and I regularly get pm’s on the subject. Since many people seem to think it’s not possible, or dangerous, I thought I’d do a thread on it, covering the main topics. Other IMers who have done the trip can add their own thoughts……

The route:

The straightforward and most popular route goes from Istanbul, through Turkey into Iran, than south-east across Iran to Baluchistan, crossing into Pakistan, before moving onto Lahore and India.

Time:

With visas in order, it is possible to travel from Istanbul to Delhi in about a week, going non-stop. Obviously, this won’t be very pleasant. Each country is worth months of travel in its own right, but for those just wishing to make it to India, seeing a few things along the way, I’ll mention some highlights that most people don’t miss.

The Countries

If rushing through Turkey, make Istanbul and Cappadocia your main stops, as they are two places that are probably unequalled in the world.

Iran has its very own Golden Triangle of Esfahan, Shiraz (for Persepolis) and Yazd, which should be your main stops if rushing through.

In Pakistan, Lahore and Peshawar are probably the best stops on the way to India (Peshawar is a bit of a detour).

If you have more time, at least a month in each country will give you a chance to really explore. Turkey is perhaps second only behind India in terms of diversity, with beaches, ruins, mountains, great food and people. Iran is a fascinating, complex country with great hospitality and history, and yes, very safe.

As for Pakistan, its northern mountains are its main draw. See this thread.

Costs

Turkey is on a par with Eastern Europe, when I was there 2 years ago, I spent between €25-35 p/day, cheaper in backpackers places like Cappadocia. In the east, with less tourists, accommodation is higher, but general costs less.

2 years ago, I got through Iran on about €10-15 p/day. I’ve heard prices have risen since then, to around €20 p/day.

Pakistan, I believe, is still dirt cheap, €10 p/day should be possible.

Visas

Buy your Turkish visa at the border, no problem.

It makes a lot of sense to get your Iranian and Pakistani visas in advance in your home country, as both can be hassles to get on the road. In particular, Iran is known as a tricky place to get Pakistani and Indian visas.

Iranian visas are for up to 30 days, and extendable. They’re valid for entry for up to 3 months after issue (this doesn’t apply to Americans, who must visit on an expensive tour).

Pakistani visas are for up to 3 months. They’re valid for entry for up to 6 months after issue.

Indian visas are available at the High Commission in Islamabad.

Transport

Turkey has what must be one of the best bus systems in the world. Trains are slower and slightly more expensive.

Iran also has a great bus system, with new, more expensive Volvo’s competing with older, cheaper Mercedes. The train system might be of some use also.

In Pakistan, the train is the best way to travel from Quetta to Lahore, and Lahore to Peshawar. Travel in the north is by bus or jeep.

Safety

Many travellers worry about safety on this trip, but Turkey and Iran are as safe as anywhere, while in Pakistan, dodgy areas are generally off-limits to tourists.

One place worth keeping an eye on though is Baluchistan. For those heading straight through on buses (the wise option), there are no real concerns. However, those travelling on their own transport, particularly cyclists, do face possible kidnap risks. In 2003, 2 Germans and 1 Irishman were captured by drug lords cycling through, on the Iranian side.

It should be pointed out that such incidents are not related to Taliban activities, and are more to do with the Iranian governments war on drugs.

Alternative routes

After the fall of the Taliban in 2001, a trickle of travellers started returning to Afghanistan, and for a few years, reported that the country was generally safish north of the Pashtun heartland. However, the situation around the country has deteriorated in the last 2 years, and from what I read on the Thorn Tree, Afghanistan is now best avoided altogether, as random bombings and kidnapping of foreigners increase. A shame, as many of our older members will testify……Check out Kabul Caravanfor info.

Another route could take you through the Central Asian republics of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. These can be reached from Iran, by Caspian Sea ferry from Azerbaijan, or from Russia by train. Visas for these countries are a hassle, by all accounts. Check out Stantours for more info. This route will eventually land you in Kashgar, Western China, from where the Karakorum Highway will bring you down into Pakistan. It’s really a big trip all in itself, with loads to see and do, ancient silk road cities, great mountains and people, etc.

And finally…

The great thing about this trip, as many IM members who have done it will testify, is that you’re eased into each country, which is different from the last. It’s a fascinating trip through history, diverse people, and it’s always a surprise.

steven_ber · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:14

Great thread Conor, very useful.

Some people considering this route may find the following info useful about train journeys along the route. (scroll to bottom of page)

http://www.seat61.com/India.htm

capt_mahajan · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:15

Very interesting post, Conor.

Shiver me Timbers · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:27

Thanks Steven, I was going link Man in Seat 61, but forgot. It's particularly useul for plotting a route through Europe to Istanbul.

shashank.aggarwal · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:35

Very useful info !! and what about an Indian wanting to go to Europe..Overland ??

Shiver me Timbers · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:37

Well, all of the above is valid, except for the visa info - I believe visas are a little trickier going east to west, but many people still do it.

ALPHABAR · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:56

without wanting to sound like that famous scene from "the life of brian"....

"apart from the culture, the people, the incredible scenery, the food, the adventures....avoiding heathrow - why would you want to travel overland?"

but seriously - the cost of travel used to be the main incentive to doing it overland but this is not the case any more, overland costs more - and it's now life threateningly dangerous - so why ?

Shiver me Timbers · Oct 19th, 2007, 02:58

Eh, not quite sure how to reply to that.....did you read the post? It's actually very safe, there's loads to see and do, and it's a great adventure.

Plus, flying is bad for the environment.....

ALPHABAR · Oct 19th, 2007, 03:10

soz...

occasionally i try and inject humour but it doesn't work sometimes....(i.e maybe never).

mmmm....flying bad for the environment ? i think that could be an interesting thread in itself....my understanding is that eating meat, buying lcd tv's, buying anything in the west that is manufactured in the east (sea transport of consumer items from east to west) = greater damage than air travel.

Shiver me Timbers · Oct 19th, 2007, 03:13

oh sorry, it's just when people start a sentence with 'but seriously', I tend to take them seriously....

ALPHABAR · Oct 19th, 2007, 03:31

then you should take a look at the master:

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/peopl...629/index.html

dave allen used the term " but seriously" to great comic effect...

steven_ber · Oct 19th, 2007, 03:39

Misunderstandings....

One of the saddest things about international forums as that a sense of humour doesn't travel well, we all misunderstand each other, I'd love to let my sense of humour come out more, but it's rarely understood and very often taken the wrong way (mind you, I've got a sick SOH sometimes.

)

edwardseco · Oct 19th, 2007, 04:44

Fascinating post, its the adventure I would say that drives people to such a challenge. I envy those that undertake this trip. I would be stuck at the Iranian border though. Shame I would love to see more of Iran especially Ishfahan..

freenote · Oct 19th, 2007, 04:54

As above,fascinating post .

camelgirl · Oct 19th, 2007, 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor M

Every so often on IM we have people wondering about travelling overland to India, and I regularly get pm’s on the subject. Since many people seem to think it’s not possible, or dangerous, I thought I’d do a thread on it, covering the main topics. Other IMers who have done the trip can add their own thoughts……

Time:

With visas in order, it is possible to travel from Istanbul to Delhi in about a week, going non-stop. Obviously, this won’t be very pleasant. Each country is worth months of travel in its own right, but for those just wishing to make it to India, seeing a few things along the way, I’ll mention some highlights that most people don’t miss.

A WEEK

I guess that's possible but as you say, won't be very pleasant. Really no point, IMHO!!

Good posting Connor! Thanks.

My overland trip in 1975 took 36 days and I really could have gone on for longer --in fact I did go on to 3 more days overland to Kathmandu! Hard to stop once you get going!

I think anyone with a curiosity about the world and some time on their hands should do any overland trip they can. I still wouldn't mind doing it again, but I think I'm past it now.

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:01	#1
Shiver me Timbers Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Asia Posts: 1,874	Travelling Overland From Europe to India Every so often on IM we have people wondering about travelling overland to India, and I regularly get pm’s on the subject. Since many people seem to think it’s not possible, or dangerous, I thought I’d do a thread on it, covering the main topics. Other IMers who have done the trip can add their own thoughts…… The route: The straightforward and most popular route goes from Istanbul, through Turkey into Iran, than south-east across Iran to Baluchistan, crossing into Pakistan, before moving onto Lahore and India. Time: With visas in order, it is possible to travel from Istanbul to Delhi in about a week, going non-stop. Obviously, this won’t be very pleasant. Each country is worth months of travel in its own right, but for those just wishing to make it to India, seeing a few things along the way, I’ll mention some highlights that most people don’t miss. The Countries If rushing through Turkey, make Istanbul and Cappadocia your main stops, as they are two places that are probably unequalled in the world. Iran has its very own Golden Triangle of Esfahan, Shiraz (for Persepolis) and Yazd, which should be your main stops if rushing through. In Pakistan, Lahore and Peshawar are probably the best stops on the way to India (Peshawar is a bit of a detour). If you have more time, at least a month in each country will give you a chance to really explore. Turkey is perhaps second only behind India in terms of diversity, with beaches, ruins, mountains, great food and people. Iran is a fascinating, complex country with great hospitality and history, and yes, very safe. As for Pakistan, its northern mountains are its main draw. See this thread. Costs Turkey is on a par with Eastern Europe, when I was there 2 years ago, I spent between €25-35 p/day, cheaper in backpackers places like Cappadocia. In the east, with less tourists, accommodation is higher, but general costs less. 2 years ago, I got through Iran on about €10-15 p/day. I’ve heard prices have risen since then, to around €20 p/day. Pakistan, I believe, is still dirt cheap, €10 p/day should be possible. Visas Buy your Turkish visa at the border, no problem. It makes a lot of sense to get your Iranian and Pakistani visas in advance in your home country, as both can be hassles to get on the road. In particular, Iran is known as a tricky place to get Pakistani and Indian visas. Iranian visas are for up to 30 days, and extendable. They’re valid for entry for up to 3 months after issue (this doesn’t apply to Americans, who must visit on an expensive tour). Pakistani visas are for up to 3 months. They’re valid for entry for up to 6 months after issue. Indian visas are available at the High Commission in Islamabad. Transport Turkey has what must be one of the best bus systems in the world. Trains are slower and slightly more expensive. Iran also has a great bus system, with new, more expensive Volvo’s competing with older, cheaper Mercedes. The train system might be of some use also. In Pakistan, the train is the best way to travel from Quetta to Lahore, and Lahore to Peshawar. Travel in the north is by bus or jeep. Safety Many travellers worry about safety on this trip, but Turkey and Iran are as safe as anywhere, while in Pakistan, dodgy areas are generally off-limits to tourists. One place worth keeping an eye on though is Baluchistan. For those heading straight through on buses (the wise option), there are no real concerns. However, those travelling on their own transport, particularly cyclists, do face possible kidnap risks. In 2003, 2 Germans and 1 Irishman were captured by drug lords cycling through, on the Iranian side. It should be pointed out that such incidents are not related to Taliban activities, and are more to do with the Iranian governments war on drugs. Alternative routes After the fall of the Taliban in 2001, a trickle of travellers started returning to Afghanistan, and for a few years, reported that the country was generally safish north of the Pashtun heartland. However, the situation around the country has deteriorated in the last 2 years, and from what I read on the Thorn Tree, Afghanistan is now best avoided altogether, as random bombings and kidnapping of foreigners increase. A shame, as many of our older members will testify……Check out Kabul Caravanfor info. Another route could take you through the Central Asian republics of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. These can be reached from Iran, by Caspian Sea ferry from Azerbaijan, or from Russia by train. Visas for these countries are a hassle, by all accounts. Check out Stantours for more info. This route will eventually land you in Kashgar, Western China, from where the Karakorum Highway will bring you down into Pakistan. It’s really a big trip all in itself, with loads to see and do, ancient silk road cities, great mountains and people, etc. And finally… The great thing about this trip, as many IM members who have done it will testify, is that you’re eased into each country, which is different from the last. It’s a fascinating trip through history, diverse people, and it’s always a surprise.

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:14	#2
steven_ber Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: South of England. Posts: 11,555	Great thread Conor, very useful. Some people considering this route may find the following info useful about train journeys along the route. (scroll to bottom of page) http://www.seat61.com/India.htm __________________ . How to get helpful replies to your transport/Itinerary questions. Train information. RAC & Waitlists explained.

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:15	#3
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,597	Very interesting post, Conor. __________________ . Outside the machine

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:35	#5
shashank.aggarwal The Fortunate One Join Date: May 2007 Location: Road Posts: 6,820	Very useful info !! and what about an Indian wanting to go to Europe..Overland ?? __________________ Spineless Travelogue - Around India

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Oct 19th, 2007, 02:27	#4
Shiver me Timbers Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Asia Posts: 1,874	Thanks Steven, I was going link Man in Seat 61, but forgot. It's particularly useul for plotting a route through Europe to Istanbul.

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:37	#6
Shiver me Timbers Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Asia Posts: 1,874	Well, all of the above is valid, except for the visa info - I believe visas are a little trickier going east to west, but many people still do it.

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:56	#7
ALPHABAR Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SWEDEN Posts: 71	without wanting to sound like that famous scene from "the life of brian".... "apart from the culture, the people, the incredible scenery, the food, the adventures....avoiding heathrow - why would you want to travel overland?" but seriously - the cost of travel used to be the main incentive to doing it overland but this is not the case any more, overland costs more - and it's now life threateningly dangerous - so why ?

Oct 19th, 2007, 02:58	#8
Shiver me Timbers Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Asia Posts: 1,874	Eh, not quite sure how to reply to that.....did you read the post? It's actually very safe, there's loads to see and do, and it's a great adventure. Plus, flying is bad for the environment.....

Oct 19th, 2007, 03:10	#9
ALPHABAR Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SWEDEN Posts: 71	soz... occasionally i try and inject humour but it doesn't work sometimes....(i.e maybe never). mmmm....flying bad for the environment ? i think that could be an interesting thread in itself....my understanding is that eating meat, buying lcd tv's, buying anything in the west that is manufactured in the east (sea transport of consumer items from east to west) = greater damage than air travel.

Oct 19th, 2007, 03:13	#10
Shiver me Timbers Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Asia Posts: 1,874	oh sorry, it's just when people start a sentence with 'but seriously', I tend to take them seriously....

Oct 19th, 2007, 03:31	#11
ALPHABAR Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SWEDEN Posts: 71	then you should take a look at the master: http://www.screenonline.org.uk/peopl...629/index.html dave allen used the term " but seriously" to great comic effect...

Oct 19th, 2007, 03:39	#12
steven_ber Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: South of England. Posts: 11,555	Misunderstandings.... One of the saddest things about international forums as that a sense of humour doesn't travel well, we all misunderstand each other, I'd love to let my sense of humour come out more, but it's rarely understood and very often taken the wrong way (mind you, I've got a sick SOH sometimes. )

Oct 19th, 2007, 04:44	#13
edwardseco Maha Guru Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Land that shakes and bakes. Posts: 5,830	Fascinating post, its the adventure I would say that drives people to such a challenge. I envy those that undertake this trip. I would be stuck at the Iranian border though. Shame I would love to see more of Iran especially Ishfahan..

Oct 19th, 2007, 04:54	#14
freenote senior member refused Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: cornwall UK Posts: 1,955	As above,fascinating post .

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