shanghai to Calcutta by land

ponderingwanderer

Hello,
I am a Canadian female, planning to travel to Calcutta in mid-October. (I will be in Calcutta for about three months, to do volunteer work)
I am currently in Japan, and will travel by boat to Shanghai, then by land from Shanghai to Calcutta. Has anyone done this? Or something similar?
Advice, tips, warnings, and recommendations greatly appreciated!!! (About the overland trip, and living in Cal! )

Thanks and peace,
ponderingwanderer

steven_ber

Hello PW and welcome to indiamike.com

Are you aware that you can only fly into and out of Myanmar? (no land crossings).

The most direct route would be to get to Kunming then bus the last 2000 km or so through Tibet to Nepal.

The route to Bangkok (via Vietnam, Cambodia) can be done mostly by train; flights from Bangkok to Calcutta are cheap.

Alternatively, from Kunming you could go via Laos to Bangkok.

Whatever way you choose, I'm sure it will be the adventure of a lifetime.

I have the Chinese rail timetable if you need any train info, also an English/Chinese reservation form that you could take copies of, it is said to be really useful in China.

__________________
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How to get helpful replies to your transport/Itinerary questions.



Train information.

Bryan

I can't recommend Laos highly enough ....A truelly beautiful country and amazing locals

The Burmese land borders are closed to Westerners but I know that some people have crossed after bribing (paying special tax) to the border guards ...However there are isues with giving these people money

So that kind of scuppers that idea
I heard tlak of a link between the Nadamaons and Thailand though dont know anymore

I know that there were no passenger services other than from the India side and the only way from Thailand was on a diving excursion ...this may have changed but will probably be by air

The Tibet route is open
However from what I undertand you need a special pernmit and to be part of a group to travel the road and the entry points to Tiibet a vigorously checked

Thats not to say it isnt possible it just needs more planning and a more risk taking or else pay the tour fee and when you ge to Lhasa strike out alone....

Once you make nepal its a simple ...well simple but long trek south or east

You have two choices all involving Kathmandu

You can go almost due south to varanasi and then east by train to calcutta

Or take the bus from Kathmandu east to wes Bengal and head down to Calcutta ...That patricular trip lives with me as the hardest most uncomofrtable journey ive ever done ...Wasnt the longest or the worst road but was energy sapping like no other trip i done

Hope this helps and it would be itneresting to hear regular updates from your journey

There was another route a friend of mine doen which involved going through Pakistan but that was before the current shenangigans going on

Bryan

__________________
Then let us pray that come it may
(As come it will for a' that),
That Sense and Worth o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree an a' that.
For a' that, an a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That man to man, the world, o'er
Shall brithers be for a' that.
- Burns

ponderingwanderer

Thanks for the great info.
Does anyone have any experience going via Nepal/Tibet?? Can you tell me about it??

Also, I will be in Cal doing volunteer work. Other than M. Theresa's and Dr. J. , what other small organizations are in need of volunteers??

Thanks again,
p

Bryan

Ponder
Don't know if its any help
But a member called lightening is in Eastern Tibet at the moment
He /she might be able to supply you with reams of useful info on
Tibet and a route to Nepal ...set up your PM ...

I tried to PM you but it says you ahve it switched off

Bryan

lightning

Hello PW,
-got your message Bryan,

I will get a thread on tibet together in this section asap, meanwhile hope this helps;-

I'm In Eastern Tibet now where you only need an all-china tourist Visa, max 90 days.
Central tibet (TAR-'Tibet Autonomous Region') is restricted by extra permit. Don't be put off by that though, they are easy to get by a tour operator with a min. weeks notice. You'll need to provide a scan/photocopy of your all-china visa & passport to get it. They will basically vouch for you and create an itinery that shows where you'll be. So long as you're predictable and chaperoned by a guide the authorities are quite amenable.

It is possible to create a "tour" of one person. this is what I've done. Pros-freedom; cons-full costs of transport and guide etc... the best is a small group of 3or4 to share costs.

China wants tourist dollars and sees Tibet as an attraction. You just have to enter their system to access it. An 'inside agent' who speaks Tibetan and chinese is indispensable in doing this, at least for first timers.

I've had fantastic and very proffessional help from the guy who wrote the footprint guide to Tibet, Mr. Gyurme Dorje. He's actually Scottish though he has a tibetan name. He is encyclopedically knowledgeable about all aspects of tibetan culture (see his guide & website) and has a network of guides and agents across Tibet who can handle all the official paperwork, tickets etc...even at quite short notice. (they are all on mobile phones now)

my advice is to try him first as he is the best. He has the experience and scope to arrange any custom itinery you like and get it approved by the authorities.
It's not cheap, especially by Indian standards but I shopped around and found the same story everywhere. there are a growing number of 'tour operators', many of whom I'd call chancers, -buyer beware. that said, "off the peg" standard short tours may be usefull in places and prove good value too. eg. lhasa
kathmandu.

Gyurme Dorje's company is called Trans-himalaya.com see the web page for further contact details. One phone call could be invaluable since he's up to date with most travel matters tibet-wide, and he may have a group going your way and time that you can join at minimum cost ;-)

I'm on my way to lhasa and then kathmandu overland.
I chose to fly Xining to lhasa since the coach journey is a bit gruelling and I've just spent a month rattling around in a jeep.

(correction; rail not yet complete to lhasa)

The route from Lhasa to Kathmandu is well-coverred by many operators and there's even a public bus service.

Tibet is undergoing a strange modernising metamorphosis which means it has already got most of the modern conveniences we take for granted in the west. It is rapidly becomming accessible and 'not so different' on a modern practical level. Happily the stunning landscape, altitude, culture and ubiquitous Yaks keep it uniquely different, which can never be diluted by any progress.

I'm loving it

enjoy your trip

-L

vistet

Lots of god info , thanx. The passage below made me jump , - I thought it was like two years off , from reading recent stories about preparations etc. More details to come ?

steven_ber

I was told the train would go into service in 2007, it must be one hell of a scenic route.

lightning, see if you can find a timetable for the route, it's not in my timetable as it wasn't completed when the timetable was printed.

The trains on the route are supposed to be brand new, top quality trains, with pressurised (is that the right word?) coaches because of the altitude, so no opening the outside door and watching Tibet go by.

lightning

will see what a visit to the station can dig up

I was told very definitely by my Tibetan guide that it was finished even as I photographed the slick new carriages. I hope it turns out to be finished now not in the future, Tibetan time is notoriously fluid ;-)

-L

lightning

oops

I've just been to the Xining Rail station to verify the train thing ...unfortunately it seems my guide was premature in his insistence that it went to Lhasa. (It will go to Lhasa)
I have to double-check with an English speaker, since today's info was gleaned with minimal tibetan and Chinese + maximum sign lingo.
I looked at 3 different chinese timetable books, all their network maps show the last stop as Golmud still.

From Golmud you can take a public coach to Lhasa - 36 hours.
not quite the style of pressurised rail carriages...sigh.

sorry for the misinformation folks
but who knows it may open earlier than 2007.

for the moment flying is still the choice way to go

-L

vistet

Its`interesting the effort put in to pressurised cabins when you compare with the roads in Ladakh : the highest roads run half a kilometer higher than the Ktm - Lhasa road.

For a crititical view of the railway : check this
link
nice avatar ,lightning

lightning

thanks Vistet,
fits the current mood.

great link, have downloaded for offline perusal

-L

Vasko

Thanks vistet for the link, I began reading through the report and it is indeed a discomforting and grim read. I can't help but wonder how I would feel sitting in a train carriage to Lhasa - a moving manifestation of Chinese oppressionist politics.

Railway networks are often referred to as the arteries and veins of a nation. In this case, the comparison is strikingly on the mark: one of the foremost reasons for the construction of the Gormo-Lhasa railway is to pump Chinese blood into Tibet.

The estimated economic benefits of the railway are negligible; the sought after military and political ones are the true motivation.

Would it be right, for me as a tourist, to travel to Tibet on a railway whose existence the Tibetans themselves seriously oppose? I don't know.

PS. On a sidenote, the railway will run through some seriously harsh, permafrost terrain. According to the report, "some Chinese experts have admitted that construction methods on the long permafrost sections where the tracks will be laid will be largely experimental". Yikes!

lightning

I've also been reading the rail report vasko and have similar reactions.

whether it is right to use such a thing?

-After a month here my feeling about travel in Tibet is firmly that the more westerners who come here the better.

One of the worst things the tibetans have to contend with in their situation is isolation. The Chinese have precious few witnesses to their machinations.

The Tibetans genuinely appreciate and welcome visitors. The most precious thing they have is their buddhist culture and they are deeply touched when outsiders take an interrest in it and their country.

The more tourists the better to balance out the immigrants a bit and spend some money with the Locals.

If the railway is completed with prison labour I dont think I could use it. But then most of the new roads have been partly or wholly made that way so it's hard to keep aloof from the oppression. I think that the railway is as the report says premature, but can finally be used for Tibetan benefit as well as detriment. boycotting it as tourists certainly won't help them or us.

hmm... didn't mean to go off on one, but it's a poignant example of how we cannot separate ourselves from these kinds of complex situations.

I believe the determining factor in whether we can help and make a difference, is our intention and motivation for our actions. If you go with the tibetans' best interrests at heart then you may well find a way, however small to help -despite the overwhelming odds. I feel it's a case of think 'next step' and stay true, not try and figure out the big picture and paralyse yourself. We'll all conclude it's unworkable that way. That's why the Tibetans are heartened when we do something. They know what hopeless feels like but go on and adapt.

The greatest gift you can give them is to learn a bit of their culture. They share it freely.

The next best thing would be to help them establish direct international social and trade links so they don't have to rely on a un-interrested and competitive chinese population that trades with itself. A railway could do a lot to that end.

:-)
-L

Vasko

I hear ya, lightning. I’m convinced that the Tibetan people are proud of their culture and are willing to share it with foreigners. It is for this exact reason that it should be protected. According to my understanding of this and other reports, the railway is a direct threat to the Tibetan people and their culture.

So I’m not suggesting that tourist travel to Tibet is in itself something detrimental to the culture, quite the opposite might well be true. I’m just saying that I would feel very ambivalent using a mode of transportation built first and foremost for purposes of oppression.

I wish I could share your optimism, but it seems to me that the railway is not being built for the benefit of the Tibetan people. They haven’t had any kind of say in whether it should be built or not. I do agree, however, that boycotting it as tourists will have no effect either way. The few tourists who take such an “exotic” route will be a trickle in the ocean; it’s the masses of Chinese migrants that are the real matter of concern.


The problem here is that this railway is not going to establish and international link, just a stronger stranglehold for China on Tibet. In the worst case scenario, the Tibetans won’t be trading with anyone once the railway has been built, as the Tibetan population will be overwhelmed by Chinese resettlement. It’ll all be internal Chinese business, run and regulated according to their political, economical and military interests.

I don’t want to end on too much of a pessimistic note here, so I hope you continue to enjoy your stay in Tibet and learn more about the culture along the way. That’s definitely valuable. Maybe you can get a more uplifting picture of the resilience of the Tibetan people, too…