Reverse first time experiences

yes, exactly what I was trying to say. However, I still maintain, that girl was polite and sweet .

I don't think this 'over-politeness' is such a bad thing - there are times when I appreciate it. Travelling in Eastern Europe, you soon yearn for it. In Croatia I noticed in every shop the cashier would just lash my change down on the counter, and not even look at me, let alone say 'Thank You'. These are times when I thought 'it never hurt anyone to say please & thank you, or smile', even though they might not really mean it.

In Ireland it would be unthinkable to walk past someone on a rural road or lane and not acknowledge the occasion in some way, whether it's the usual 'Bad weather we're getting lately', or just a simple nod and smile.

Perhaps it is all a bit fake, but I like it, it makes me feel comfortable in situations.

Layman, why don't you say "thank you" in India? You should try it. It is appreciated.

Courtesy in India seemed to me to revolve more around helpfulness.

Many times when I was trying to describe to a shopkeeper what it was I wanted, the masking tape incident was particularly memorable, so many people just walking down the street would respond to our requests for help in translation that the crowd would block the whole sidewalk. But between us all we would finally figure it out, then there would be this murmur of genuine pleasure from everybody and smiles all around. Mission accomplished. Thank you was not needed.That is the real feeling that "thank you" is only a symbol for. And it was shared, not given or received.

Actually, I don't get the 'Thank you' stuff at all, in a way. I mean, if all religions and cultures tell you that it is mandatory to be polite, answer,help & what not, it's supposed to be mundane(as in everyday activity), is it not? It's supposed to be intrinsic to the self, isn't it? so why say thanks for essentially what is a part of you? I dont say thanks when someone hands me a bowl of food in India while eating not does it seem there's a reason to.

Look, I do say it but why? I have no clue. off-topic but when someone says thanks to me, it seems that I'm indulging in Karma-whoring as if I did for the express purpose getting a kind word out of a stranger. That's religious guilt for you, I dare say.

The two culture with the most exacting standards of ritual "courtesy" behavior are English and Japanese. In both these culturers the primary purpose of this ritual behavior is to reasure the other person that you are not threatening them so that there is no need for them to pull out a weapon, their polite responce indicates to you that you need not prepare to use your weapon either. Indians are not quite as warlike, they don't routinely give these reasurances to everyone all the time.

I suspect rudeness in Indian culture is not always seen as a deliberate affront that must be adressed immediately but more as an indication that this person has a ways to go in their personal evolution. We are trying to get there.

It took me a while to understand that Indians not saying "please" either was not rudeness. For instance, a friend saying , "You will give me five hundred rupees until day after tomorrow?" was asking for a loan, not ordering me to give them money. Big difference, which we would indicate by prefacing the question with "Please" and ordering the words a little differently, ie: "Will you please give me five hundred rupees until the day after tomorrow?" I suspect some of that is just different gramatical construction between different languages also.

I like your concept of Karma-whoring. For sure, we do that all the time, call it "soft soaping" or "softening up" the opponent, from the practice of applying soap to lubricate a finger to get a tight ring off. Flattering people by speaking in a manner that indicates you are making yourself subservient to them is just standard practice to manipulate them, but since everyone knows this, it really is just ritual, we don't feel particularly guilty about it. Like Gov employees styling themselves "Your obedient servant". Yeah, right! We believe that.

i always say thank you, so people know that i appreciate their time in doing something for me. i won't stop this way of responding. it suits me and i hope it doesn't cause discomfort to others. i try to look the person in the eye so they know i am sincere.

i was taught, as a child, to ask 'please' and to respond with 'thank you'. i don't think it's wrong. maybe different than other cultures, but other cultures have differences, too. certainly my learned habit of politeness would not be taken as unkindness to others, would it ? i would rather be polite, in my way, than to try and adopt a forced non-caring attitude. well, maybe it's not a 'non-caring' attitude, but that's how i would feel about it.

as for greeting people i don't know on the street... i have a hard time doing this. again, as a child, i was taught not to speak to strangers. also, not to stare at others, which makes the whole 'eye contact' thing hard to do at times.

i guess this is off topic, but i don't want to do what comes naturally to me, (the whole please and thank you thing), with someone who is not from the us and have them feel that it is just generic and not sincere. besides, it gives me a valid reason to look nice indian men in the eye.

This post is hugely entertaining and a really good read. The differences are neatly laid out. Please keep this thread alive, this should be indicated as a place to get to know the cultural differences. :-)

Great effort everyone.

After having lived in the U.S of A for exactly 20 years, I have become used to politeness. I love the 'thank you's the 'excuse me's and the 'please's..
When I visit India, I get extremely uncomfortable with the pushing and shoving crowds, not to mention the guy at the airport who scratches his private parts without a care and feel like yelling "get civilized people!"

The one thing I have not got used to and that which is totally fake is the "how are you?'" that follows "good morning" at work everyday. I am guilty of saying it too, but the thing is, I know they could care less how I was and vice versa. I mean you really can't say "I feel like shit today" or "It's just another day in my life." There are people who respond with "I feel like shit today" and then I am obliged to ask "what happened?" and the response begins with a "well..." and goes on for so long that I am thinking "what a wimp, why does'nt this person finish up?, so I can go have my coffee"

So if there is one thing I could change, it would be to keep the "good morning" but get rid of "how are you?"

Well, I agree politeness is needed with strangers but watching family members say 'thank you' is ridiculous for things like getting coffee, newspaper, water etc., gets to me. There is a politeness in the /tone/ of asking for a glass of water which is all I'd expect there to be.

& there is also an active participation in the act of politeness here in India(which varies regionally) which would grate (I think) any westerner. The concept of privacy, personal space naturally conflicts with Asian hospitality, in general, I'd go out on a limb to say. Thus mixed signals. take drinking a glass of water, say. Here, the person would stand next to you to wait for you to finish the glass and then ask whether you want more. Imagine you, with a glass of water on the table with a person quietly standing a few feet away waiting for you to finish while you'd be wondering 'I got water, said thanks, why does he want the glass back so fast? Can't he let me drink it at my leisure'. small things tend to magnify politeness as nuisance. In the end, you & I have been /taught/ politeness without exactly knowing the reasons why it's done /that/ way; hence there will always be some craptacular observations without context.

Saying that, Of course I would still like public civility to be orders of magnitude better than what it is, currently in India.

Superb thread this - really fascinating. I think it shows that there are great, good, interesting and a few plain awful people everywhere on Earth.
It is the differences in our cultures that make us, as a species, interesting. If we become one big monoculture wouldn't it all be a bit sad? Mind you, I think those who think we may turn into McWorld at any moment are under-estimating the strength of cultures.

This is very interesting. I've been wondering why we constantly refer to the war here in Britain. I suppose such an apocolyptic event must affect the national psyche of all nations closely involved. The idea of Britain standing alone in Europe is both a source of national pride, and perhaps some unhelpful longing about a loss of both power and global influence. Perhaps we feel that WWII was when Britain truly lived up to the Great and we've been longing for that again ever since. It may be that it gives some supposed justification of ridiculous parochialism and superiority complex that many of us suffer from. I also wonder if the Hollywoodisation of WWII is another contributor - if we believed most of what Hollywood tells us Britain took very little part in the war - and many people, me included, are generally more than a little offended by this. Maybe it's because once history is forgotten it is easily repeated.
Perhaps it's just the figure of Winston Churchill continuing to loom large over British life even 40 years after his death.
Still, none of the above ever excuses the headlines in some of gutter press regarding Germany that appear whenever we meet in a sporting event.

I can recall very little trumphalism regarding the various Indo-Pak wars, maybe people just realise what a waste of life it is. The loss of thousands of lives because of political intractability is utterly tragic. Most people I've spoken to from both India and Pakistan seem to be full of regret about the whole thing. I'm glad the politicians seem to have finally realised that being friends rather enemies can only be a good thing.

Anyway enough of my ramblings....

Take care one and all,

RTP

Hey Rob, Sorry for being off topic here .. but I always wondered why Churchill was ousted after that thunderous victory .. I mean there was one guy who drove the whole nation to victory podium and what he gets is political retirement. Do you have any idea why it happened ??

Hi Phantom,

It's puzzled me for a very long time and I still find it quite extraordinary. The people saw Churchill as a man for war and the Labour party as a government for peace. It was a time of great social upheaval and change - Labour were seen as the people to run it. He also made some extremely imprudent comments about the Labour party in the run up to the election which didn't help his cause one bit (He said they'd introduce a gestapo-style secret police). He was also seen by many as an old-style colonialist when British control of India had become highly unpopular at home, let alone in India - 'I have not become the King's First Minister in order to preside over the liquidation of the British Empire....'

That wasn't the end though, his later years did provide some memorable moments. He returned for a final stinit as prime minister in 1951 at the age of 77.
He made an extraordinary speech at Westminster College, Fulton, Missouri - 'An iron curtain has descended....'
He was basically forced to give up the leadership after an enormous disagreement with the cabinet after he went over foreign secretary Anthony Eden's head in trying to arrange a summit with the Russians. History proved Churchill's shrewdness in his dealings with Eden; Eden went on to become Britain's worst-ever prime minister.

Churchill though never really retired as such; he remained an MP until the final years of his life and was devastated to give his seat up in the end.

Roy Hattersley's biog of Churchill is highly recommended and gives a wonderfully sensitive treatment to the incredible life of the man I regard as history's greatest Englishman.

Hope that helps.
cheers

RTP

Thanks a lot RTP. Its extraordinary, allright. Nowhere else in history the victorious leader is shown the door..!! But maybe that proves the strength of democracy there in Britain.

This is a great post! And I would like to hear more from Indian people going to
Europe or the VS.

I think that there is no bigger difference between modern people then between
India and Europe / VS.

We loved India, but realized that other people could have a "culture shock".