Protests in Tibet

dzibead

It's this fatalistic aspect of "karma" that bugs me. "This shit is happening to me because I deserve it" - ? - Sorry, that just gives a "free pass" to the bad guys. Thank God Britain and its European Allies didn't buy into that in WWII.

vistet

It´s actually worth the time sifting thru the comments on Woesers blog , mentioned above, for the few times it breaks out in to English . There are a lot of Chinese who really still believe that they are bringing civilisation to their poor backwards cousins , and are genuinely upset when this is questioned. Their mindset is on par with most French people in the 50´s over the Algerian question - whom they also saw as just as a part of the Motherland , not a colony. Xinran´s book Sky Burial is a modern example of these attitudes.

This mindset requires some extensive editing of their history :
they will often refer to king Srongtsen Gampo´s consort princess Wencheng , carefully omitting the fact that she effectively was a war booty after the Tibetan army marched up to Xian , and that he also married a another princess from the other big regional power, Nepal.

The Amban´s , Chinese representative in Lhasa , is also used as an argument, the humiliating expulsion of him and his garrison via Calcutta (!) under the first Chinese republic is another subject carefully avoided.

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xiaojie

"and allow China to lay claim on Arunachal Pradesh...."

Excuse me , but on what basis are you saying this..??

Nick-H

Troll. Ignore it.

No territorial wars here please!

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Sama

the concept of karma has nothing to do with predetermination. karma is cause and effect.
just like the old saying "what goes around comes around."

"There are some who criticise thus: "So, you Buddhists, too, administer capitalistic opium to the people, saying: "You are born poor in this life on account of your past evil karma. He is born rich on account of his good Karma. So, be satisfied with your humble lot; but do good to be rich in your next life. You are being oppressed now because of your past evil Karma. There is your destiny. Be humble and bear your sufferings patiently. Do good now. You can be certain of a better and happier life after death."

The Buddhist doctrine of Karma does not expound such ridiculous fatalistic views. Nor does it vindicate a postmortem justice. ...Buddha...did not teach this law of Karma to protect the rich and comfort the poor by promising illusory happiness in an after-life."

(quote from the link Buddhist Studies: The Theory of Karma)

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sama: Pali/Sanskrit: that state of consciousness which reflects neither attachment nor aversion

Ignite

The President of the US has nothing to do with the US economy, whether George W is in office or not will not change anything what so ever. The only thing he affects is the budget deficit/surplus. Hopefully with a democrat in office this time our deficit will go down.

The reason the US is in a recession right now is not because of Bush, its because of the housing slump! and because of company's like Citi bank, Country wide. The only way the economy will improve is if people start spending more money, buying the houses that are in foreclosure, and start investing in stocks more.

You want to blame someone for the US economy? blame the CEO's of America, and blame the idiots that inflated the house prices.

BTW, just so we're on the same page, I still hate Bush!!!!

Dzibead, the war has nothing to do with the economy, infact it would actually boost our economy because of government spending, which gives contracts to private contracts to US companies, and in affect creates more jobs. How do you think we truly got out of the depression? Because we started giving Britain munitions (garden hose theory), and our economy started booming once we entered WWII. A war never hurts the economy, especially in a capitalistic society.

Hopefully Obama does get elected and ends the war, but thats not going to help the economy.

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dzibead

Right on, vistet. The end of the Communist Party's control in China would not spell the end of trouble for Tibetans, for exactly the reasons you cite. I've mentioned this book before on the Tibetan and Chinese political mind-sets, but I'll recommend it again: History as Propaganda: Tibetan Exiles versus the People's Republic of China, by John Powers. The Han Chinese have a superior and imperialistic mind set, much like many Western powers, notably Britain in the 19th C. and the U.S. at present (although we currently seem to be devolving into a "second world" country if not a "third" ). Even before the Communist Revolution in China, the Kuomintang had its eyes on Tibet, and the Chinese were very much distrusted by certain Tibetan officials, notably Surkhang, for that very reason.

YogaGal, that may be the correct Buddhist conception of karma, but unfortunately I've seen ordinary Tibetans, whose philosophical grasp of their own religion is not very sophisticated, succumb to exactly this kind of fatalistic thinking, and use it to justify their failure to resist Chinese hegemony.

Sama

Abductions by Chinese security forces in Lhasa

"March 16 - Hundreds of Tibetans are arbitrarily arrested in the ongoing house-by-house raid by Chinese security forces in Lhasa beginning from 15 March 2008. All former political prisoners have already been rounded off and thrown into prisons by the security forces according to confirmed information received by the Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy (TCHRD).

With streets filled with patrolling Chinese armed troops and tanks in Lhasa city, the security agencies comb each and every house in Lhasa and pick up all suspected Tibetans, especially youth, from their houses accompanied by severe beatings by the armed forces. In testimonies received by TCHRD, mothers and elderlies in the families helplessly plea at security forces upon seeing their sons and loved ones being beaten and dragged away...."


Athletes Considering Beijing Boycott

"March 16 - International Olympic Committee (IOC) vice-president Thomas Bach says a number of top athletes are considering boycotting the games in China over the bloody crackdown on protesters in Tibet.

"Several sports stars are feeling ill at ease when they think about the Olympic Games. Some are even considering cancelling," Mr Bach, of Germany, told Sunday's edition of the Bild am Sonntag newspaper...."

interesting....I wonder who...

dzibead

Very few sectors of the American economy have benefited from the war in Iraq. The economic effect of this war is very different from the economic effect of WWII. Unlike, WWII, we haven't seen increased manufacturing in the U.S. as a result if Iraq, for example. All we've seen is the country hemorrhaging money that could otherwise have been spent on things that more directly benefit people in the U.S. (and create jobs) - like investing in developing alternative energy sources, education, repairing our increasingly creaky infrastructure, or even modernizing manufacturing capabilities so we can be more competetive. Instead, we're funnleling billions to Iraq to supposedly rebuild the country we destroyed - and a lot of that money isn't being used for its intended purpose and is completely unaccounted for. In these, circumstances, ending the war will benefit the U.S. economy.

machadinha

Gotta love a quote like that too:

How relevant a comment is that when you have a standing army pitted against you armed with some bottles and bricks.

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dzibead

Yes, the Chinese idea of a "peaceful solution" is that the Tibetans all just shut up and do as they're told.

Ignite

This still wouldn't benefit our economy; it would've made us a better country. If we didn't go to war in Iraq and spend the money there, Bush would of spent that money on tax refunds instead, which would of actually helped the economy because then the people would actually buy things with the money. The U.S. Treasury money has no affect what so ever on the US economy, no matter how much we have in deficit or surplus. The only government body whose actions affect the economy is the Fed. Now the Fed hasn't done anything to hurt the economy since Ben Bernanke has been in power, he actually tried to clean up the mess Alan Greenspan started, and now hes trying to improve the economy by bailing some companies out of this credit crunch.

America would never spend money on modernizing manufacturing capabilities, or developing alternative energy, because in the capitalistic society we're in, it's the responsibility of private companies, such as GM, Ford, Proctor & Gamble. The money we spent on Iraq has no impact on the private sector, which is what the economy is based on.

machadinha

Yes; except Bach is a decidedly German sports (fencer) and now IOC bigwig I believe.

ps If you don't mind, it is beyond me how the US and Iraq etc. managed to slip in again above, but then they often seem to do.

dzibead

I know that. I just meant that that's the Chinese idea of what would amount to an acceptable "peaceful solution."

Just some tangent from a comment on the U.S. economy and China ... you know how one thing leads to another in these threads ...

Sama

I sponsor a Buddhist nun at the Jamyang Choling Institute in Dharamsala and have been receiving emails from them regarding the protests. I have just received this attachment, a BBC interview with the Dalai Lama. nothing has been edited.
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"Dalai Lama 'helpless' amid protests

As Tibetans make their most forceful demands for independence in years, their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, in exile in Dharamsala, India, outlines his concerns to the BBC's Chris Morris.

The Dalai Lama says he does not control the Tibetan people

"Am I early?" asked the Dalai Lama, as he ambled into the room. He sat down and coughed, and thanked us for coming.

"This is a critical time for us," he said, as he waited for the interview to begin.

He compared it to 1959, an iconic date for many Tibetans, when a huge uprising against Chinese rule was suppressed, and the Dalai Lama himself was forced to flee into exile on horseback.

Eventually, he made his home here, in the foothills of the Indian Himalayas, in this small town which is known to some as Little Lhasa.

It is awash with thousands of Tibetan activists-in-exile. As unrest in Tibet itself has escalated, there have been daily protests in Dharamsala throughout the week.

Cars waving Tibetan flags weave through the pedestrian traffic, leaflets are pressed into passing hands, and a hunger strike is taking place outside the entrance to the Dalai Lama's temple.

I'm a spokesman for the Tibetan people, not the controller, not the master

Dalai Lama


And when the sun sinks below the mountain range, marchers - chanting Buddhist prayers for the souls of the dead - walk through the streets carrying candles.

"We have to do our bit," said one of the marchers, who gave his name as Tenzin. "We have to support those who are struggling in Tibet itself, in our homeland."

Emerging patience

But beyond the slogans there is not much that most people here can do except watch and wait, as accurate information about what is happening in Tibet becomes harder to find.

Many of the activists take a more radical line than the Dalai Lama himself. For years now he has campaigned for genuine autonomy in Tibet, not for independence. But a new generation seems increasingly impatient with nuanced diplomacy.

Dharamsala is now home to many Buddhist nuns and monks

"I've already received a request from Tibet," he said. "Don't ask for the demonstrations to stop."

"I'm a spokesman for the Tibetan people, not the controller, not the master. It's a peoples' movement, so it's up to them. Whatever they do, I have to act accordingly."

Tibet's spiritual leader is also appealing to the Chinese authorities. "Stability is important" is his message - but it must come from the heart, not simply from the use of physical force.

There is not much sign, though, that Beijing is listening.

"Of course I feel helpless," the Dalai Lama admitted. He is particularly worried about the deadline given by China, for protestors to surrender by midnight on Sunday night or face the consequences.

China angered

But the one thing Tibet's spiritual leader does have - here and around the world - is moral authority.

That is why President Bush met him in Washington recently, where the Dalai Lama was presented with the Congressional Gold Medal, America's highest civilian honour.

It infuriates China, but it is something that the authorities in Beijing cannot control.

And even if this spate of demonstrations peters out, even if they are successfully suppressed, it seems unlikely that we will have heard the last of the Tibetan issue in this Olympic year."