Protests in Tibet

Dilliwala

Just having a little 'typocal' fun, yaar.
Our resident Englishman is guilty of the same error much more often than you, heheh.


P.S.
In this particular case, History Channel zindabad!

Nick-H

cud, shud, u...

Not that I'm counting, or anything!

Quite (which I often mix up with quiet, spelling wise, just as I do dose and does, loose and lose, and many other of my mother tongue's nasty little traps) is a curious word as it is commonly used to mean the opposite to it's true meaning.

Actually meaning completely ("Have you eaten enough?" "Thank you, I am quite full, yes") it is often used to mean partially ("I'm quite full, but could manage another ice cream, please").

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Nick-H

Errr...

How's Tibet doing?

brishti

shashank: dd's full of em quiet typo error's or perhaps they aint typo's at all just dunk him with an old monk!!!



:brishti

ok OT there - just giving support to a fellow im'er

Dilliwala

Oh, THOSE. Email English, long before sms English.
As a writing instrument, I dislike the keyboard. If I cud 'type into a microphone', my posts wud be perfect, heheh (Oh, I just did 2 again!)

Not very well, I'm afraid.
And how eerie - was JUST talking about Animal Planet's weekend TV prog about the poaching of the chiru on the Tibetan plateaus, they are not doing too well either.
Yep, by the time the bloody Chinese Communist party is done with Tibet, there'll be NOTHING left.

I AM a fellow IM'er - where's my support?
After everything I've been teaching you today!

Nick-H

We're only supporting Tibet in this thread!

dzibead

Even now, the GOI is quietly cracking down on recent arrivals from Tibet, who don't get the same welcome Tibetans refugees did in the (now rather distant) past.

Formerly, new arrivals from Tibet who wanted to leave India, e.g., in order to seek political asylum in the U.S., were issued travel documents that allowed them to leave India, even if they didn't have a Residential Certificate, but within the last year or so the GOI has not been issuing these travel documents because the PRC objected to India assisting the flight of these refugees by allowing them to pass through India!

Even before this latest restriction, the GOI stopped issuing Residential Certificates to newly arrived Tibetans in about 1979, and now legally obtained Residential Certificates are automatically available only to children of Tibetans who arrived in India before that year (but Tibetans sometimes obtain them through bribery or through falsifying date of birth or parentage in order to pass themselves off as children of Tibetans who entered India before '79). Not having a Residential Certificate is a big problem, because Tibetans are required to carry them when traveling within India. If the police stop a Tibetan for any reason, and the Tibetan doesn't have the requisite papers, he/she can be deported - or threatened with it! Not fun! Residential Certificates must be renewed yearly and although Tibetans normally don't have trouble renewing them, renewal is entirely at the discretion of the Indian Government, so the holders of these documents are perpetually in a state of uncertainty about whether they will continue to be able to stay in the country.

A lot of Tibetans I know have expressed anxiety about what the GOI's position toward them will be once the current DL dies, especially since the govt's attitude seems to have been hardening in recent years.

shashank.aggarwal

I met a Tibetan family in the train, they sell stuff in Goa in winters and move to Manali in summers...

They told me that they have got the Ration Cards, which i believe is a way of getting the Indian Citizenship...infact i was told that they have not become Indian Citizens..

Whats the logic behind that ?

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crvlvr

Correct me if I am wrong, but travel documents are required by the US so that, if the Tibetan is not granted asylum, then India is required to accept them back. I thionk India will be happy to see these illegal immigrants leave and not come back. So, it is the US govt that wants to make sure that the Tibetans can be sent back to India before letting them into the US.

Now, why should India be issuing travel documents for illegal migrants? Especially when you consider the magnitude of the problem -- there are 15 million illegal Bangladeshi immigrants in India.

Will the US issue travel documents to their 11 million illegal Mexican immigrants?

dzibead

OK, I'll correct you. The documents in question are exit permits and they are not required by the U.S.. In any event, the GOI stopped issuing exit permits to newly arrived Tibetans regardless of the refugees' intended ultimate destination, not just the U.S., so this has nothing to do with any U.S. requirement.

The U.S. does not require illegal immigrants or anyone else to have an exit permit to leave the U.S.

And as for the Tibetan refugees who are being denied exit permits being "illegal immigrants" to India, by and large they are not. They are typically persons who entered India legally via Nepal on Special Entry Permits that allow entry into India for education (up to one year) or for pilgrimage (up to one month).

If India really didn't care whether the Tibetan refugees, or "illegal immigrants" as you call them, left India, why would they stop issuing exit permits to such persons? Your theory that it's because India doesn't want to accept them back if they are denied asylum by the U.S. doesn't hold water because if such a person were denied asylum, the U.S. would not deport them back to India , it would deport them back to Tibet (Chinese citizens, including Tibetans, alas, are deported to either Beijing or Shanghai). The only reason India stopped issuing exit permits to newly-arrived Tibetans in this situation is because it didn't want to be seen, by the PRC, as a conduit for fleeing Tibetans. Nepal similarly stopped issuing exit permits to Tibetans a little bit before India did, but Nepal was completely upfront that they were doing it because they didn't want to get up China's nose.

crvlvr

The term "travel documents" typically refer to

My previous post was based on this assmption. Imf you are actually referring to "exit permits" here is a related link:

http://www.voanews.com/tibetan/archi...12-15-voa1.cfm

http://www.tibet.net/en/announcement.../circular.html

Apprently, the GOI does not want to faciltate exit permits to Tibetans intending to use India as conduit to go abroad. But, if they have "done their time" it looks like the required document will be issued.

dzibead

If you read my earlier posts, you will see that they specifically referred to a hardening of India's policies toward newly-arrived Tibetans - new refugees, who are fleeing Tibet - not to people who already had Registration Certificates and Identity Certificates. And so far, from what I have heard, in spite of some theoretical possibility that new arrivals on SEPs can eventually apply for RCs and ICs, these documents are not actually being issued. So a new refugee who has obtained a Special Entry Permit for a year (which would only be someone who is entering for education) and who wants to leave India to try to get asylum in the U.S. or elsewhere can't leave because they can't get an exit permit, and at best, will have to "go out of status" (i.e., stick around with an expired SEP) to wait and see if they are eventually granted a Registration Certificate and an Identity Certificate. And it's not just a matter of: "If you 'do your time', you'll eventually get the documents you need". Getting these documents may be a theoretical possibility but is not a certainty by any means and as I said, I've heard that in actuality they are not being issued.

The whole point of my raising this issue was to show that India has hardened its position on the "Tibetan issue", and I think the reason for this is a desire to placate the Chinese.

Dilliwala

dzibead seems very up-to-date with her info; it is an undeniable fact that the GOI's policy towards China is as I stated on previous page, and becoming even more so. Disgraceful, not to mention reprehensible.
In the past GOI wud be careful not to p.o. the Chinese but go about their biz giving the refugees what they cud quietly and without a fuss. I think they are probably getting pressure recently becos of the Olympics (ohh, for a good boycott!) and why we don't use this leverage as a reverse tactic (even for our own selfish interests) is well beyond my comprehension - it appears that the ghost of 1962 so heavily clouds the collective thinking of those that lived thru it (the 62 war) that it has left them in a blue funk for ever after. I might add, we are largely governed and administered by those who were alive then and still remember it. Bloody good thing they don't remember Alexander, otherwise who knows what concessions GOI wud have been making to Greece! Or Macedonia.

And still the refugees come, and will continue to. Altho my next info dates to 2 years back, still here it is -
In 2005, the Govt of Nepal closed the Tibetan refugee coordinator's office in Kathmandu, under pressure from who else? So 2 years back I happened to meet the princi of the THF school in Mussoorie. I asked him what the effect of the KTM office closure had been on the inflow into India; he replied - insignificant. I think previously they got some kind of legal papers in KTM to travel to India (is that right, dzi?), and now they had to bribe our border guards to get thru. But hey, if people are really determined, they'll get thru. 14-year-olds will continue to be sent by their parents hoping for a better education in India, some 10-year-olds will still die on the way (youngest death en-route, if I'm right?) and of course others will be SHOT. But they'll keep coming. As long as there's a Communist dictatorship in China, they'll keep coming. Somehow it isn't ingrained in the psyche (yet!) that India might deport them back. If that happens one dark day......well, maybe I'll need an exit permit too in future.

rushie82

Yes Diliwala India acts pretty spineless but thats with every issue, remember kandahar, disgusting really.


I think they sell winter clothing everywhere in India not just Goa. Here in Baroda, Gujarat they magically appear during each winter to sell winter clothings in huge quantity and then magically disappear afterwards.

Munivar

For enough money, I can get ration card for George W Bush.

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