Protests in Tibet

machadinha

<cross-posted with YG>

Hmmm... I don't disagree as such, however so many years of Intifada spring to mind, and the decades of struggle that preceded both of them, with so far no end in sight. Not to get ourselves caught up in that particular conflict or what we make of it, one could think of any number of others. Decades of as-yet unresolved guerrilla warfare in various South American countries, and so on and so forth. Or the state Afghanistan is in today. Or Chechnya, etc. The South African struggle against Apartheid has been commemorated above, and its international solidarity movement at the time was often at odds with if not outright embarrassed or undecided as to its violent manifestations. Which however in hindsight I don't think anyone in their reasonable mind could argue that struggle could have been successful or even existed without. Besides, the aftermath of that particular struggle may be less a subject of international focus now, but still very much makes itself felt on the ground, or so I understand.

(And never forget most of our own "Enlightened" democracies were the result of violent struggle and uprisings or outright war, the concept of democracy as such in the modern sense certainly was.)

All I'm saying is this implicit advocating of violent solutions (even by way of sheer "martyrdom," which would then hypothetically "enforce" some breakthrough -- this is the classic Marxist-Leninist notion of avant-gardism in my view, as authoritarian as it is erroneous and factually proven wrong if you ask me) is both historically and practically as romantic and naive as is relying on pacifist solutions only, and it obviously doesn't guarantee any swifter solutions, certainly not in view of the way state power and the means at its disposal (military, propagandistic, economic, and otherwise) has evolved over say the past century. There is also this historical thing about those advocating such means rarely risking their necks to do it; this holds true of "mainstream" militaristic culture as much as that of its more radical/liberational (always a subjective label at best in any case) manifestations. Hence y'r martyrs right there -- good for the cause maybe, but arguably cannon fodder no matter how you look at it and very much dead by definition.

I wouldn't want to advocate for or against either approach, I think it's mostly up to people themselves, and they'll certainly choose their own ways no matter what we think of it; just that neither seems to offer a quick way out, or human history would present a very different picture. An easily observed problem with militant struggles as such is that they easily reinforce inherent authoritarian tendencies that many such movements start out ostensibly rejecting. Think only of Protestantism turning out even more authoritarian than Catholicism, which it had initially opposed over just this. The French Terror is likewise well-documented of course. Then again, as has been noted above peaceful pen-pushing may lead to the same results. I think there is no easy either/or answer to such dilemmas. Who's to say what's best; a pragmatic approach is probably wisest in most of life's circumstances, but that might just be the Postmodernist in me speaking. Or the anarchist, whichever the invective of the day is.

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Dilliwala

Hi dzibead,
Thanks for the link. I will try to get hold of this book. "Jamyang Norbu" struck a bell - haven't read any of the Mandala books though.

Thanks - you're embarrassing me with the "always" though , it was a fluke. I just used the word Gandhivad as a synonym for ahinsa, cos I didn't want to use Gandhigiri, which is the current term in vogue nowadays!

"Agree with most of the very knowledgable people on this thread. Dilliwala et al"
See what I mean? You're giving me an undeserved reputation . I shud have been in the "et al".
ind-pal - thanks anyway, you're very kind.

I don't have a whole lot of insight into the Tibet cause, just what I pick up here and there in the news and the web, plus a few contacts in the hills. But I have a great deal of admiration for them as a community for the way they have managed to keep their cause alive over the decades - despite the CPC/PRC doing everything poss to stop them - not easy to do when displaced. Plus these are some of the kindest, gentlest people I have ever met. We also forget sometimes that for over 2000 years they have basically been good neighbours, and surely that deserves more in return from our govt.
On a less down-beat note - it seems "the people" are more in tune with the Tibet cause. CNN-IBN did a poll and discussion on boycotting Beijing earlier today - 92% of Indian viewers were in favour of a boycott. That number certainly took me by surprise. Granted, these are urban English-speaking audiences, not really a reperesentative sample, but still it's an encouraging sign.

It's always very interesting reading your insightful (yet not inciteful ) posts on the subject of Tibet. Cheers.
BTW, unless there's more than one of em, I've met T. Dodin .
Coupla times in fact, altho by fluke.

edwardseco

If you bring down the price of vegetables they won't mind..

Dilliwala

I agree it's mere symbolism, ed.
Even so I was expecting the number to be more like 29, not 92.

Shiver me Timbers

More on this....

Bush calls Hu to urge Tibet talks

US President George W Bush has urged China to begin dialogue with Tibet's spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.
Mr Bush called his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao to raise his concerns about the unrest and to urge him to ease access for journalists and diplomats.

Beijing has accused the Dalai Lama of being behind the demonstrations - the biggest against China for 20 years, which have left several people dead.

Read it all

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edwardseco

The problem with polls is that they don't ask what the person would be willing to pay for such a goal and then demand that sum. Hence, betting sites are better predictive sources than polls. Lordy, my bet on Hillary is down to 1/6th of its value! Its worse than my bet on google stock..

Dilliwala

Hu let the dogs out.

Sama

in the current issue of Time magazine there is an excellent story about the Dalai Lama and the protests in Tibet along with related articles.

In answer to the question of what kind of government would Tibet have (or want) if it were free, the writer says:

"Almost as soon as he left Tibet in 1959, he started to draw up a new democratic constitution for Tibetans, allowing for the possibility of impeaching the Dalai Lama. He threw out much that he regarded as outdated or needlessly ritualistic in the Tibetan system while gradually bringing in reforms..."

from all that I've read about the DL and from all that I've heard him and my own teacher say, the Dalai Lama is a realist and of course as a Buddhist he believes that the nature of reality is impermanence. he knows that some day there will be no more Dalai Lamas. As the writer says in the article: "As practical and flexible as ever and holding to the Buddhist ideas of impermanence and nonattachment, he told me as far back as 1996, "At a certain stage, the Dalai Lama institution will disappear. But that does not mean that Tibetan Buddhist culture will cease."

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errorinu

Will the unrest in Tibet.....impact travellers going to Leh or Laddakh or Laul & Spiti

Any travellers there in during April 11 to 19??

edwardseco

Absolutely none, its a different country. No Buddhist jihad since Ashoka..

edwardseco

Boy, that is a hairy one ..

Sama

a story that was emailed to me about Chinese agents dressing like monks to stage the riots

Sources at British Spy Agency Confirm Tibetan Claims of Staged Violence

"LONDON—Britain's GCHQ, the government communications agency that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured...."

and a shrewd editorial written by a non-Tibetan who was detained and interrogated for a week by the Chinese:

"Reclaiming the Streets -

The monks and nuns leading the protest in Tibet know they will die - and they're ready for it, writes adviser to the Tibetan Government-in-exile, Gabriel Lafitte...

The Tibetan revolt, like those of two and five decades ago, will be crushed by the overwhelming might of the Chinese military. No match could be more unequal: maroon-clad nuns and monks versus the machinery of oppression of the global rising power...
What is the point of revolt if it is almost certainly suicidal?

This uprising has many uniquely Tibetan characteristics. At street level, a favourite item seized from Chinese shops was toilet rolls - hardly the usual target of looters. Not that Tibetans, over millennia, have felt much need for the paper rolls, or even for the basics of the Chinese cuisine such as soy sauce. What the Tibetans did with the loo paper was to hurl it over power lines, instantly making Lhasa, and other Tibetan towns, Tibetan again....

That is what this revolt is about: making Tibet Tibetan once more..."

Munivar

Wen did that happen

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Dilliwala

Touche!
Much better than mine. If he ever quits, you can be a worthy successor to Prashant M in the IM-wit (but not dim-wit) dept.


Just thought of a variant to mine -

"Hu let the dogs out.
Who? Hu! Hu! Hu!"

Sama

you guys grow up watching the Three Stooges by any chance?

somehow this repartee reminds me of beer commercials during the Super Bowl...