How was your trip to Pakistan?

somnath · Mar 16th, 2006, 18:51

Omar Abdullah, minister of state for external affairs in the National Democratic Alliance government and president of the National Conference, is happy with his first trip to Pakistan.

During the visit he met with Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf on Kashmir and presented him a document on greater autonomy for Kashmir passed by the Jammu and Kashmir assembly when his father, Dr Farooq Abdullah was chief minister.

In an interview to Senior Associate Editor Onkar Singh after his return from Pakistan, he spoke about the highlights of his visit.

How was your trip to Pakistan?

Personally and professionally it was a very satisfying trip. I had gone there with mixed feelings about what to expect, and returned very satisfied. I was there to attend a meeting on Kashmir.......

Read more...

cyberhippie · Mar 16th, 2006, 19:06

It may be a glib or even inflammatory statement but the very short time I spent in Pakistan (before India) lead me to the feeling that politics and lines on maps aside, Pakistan was/is very similar to India, the rickshaws, crowded buses, street entrepreneurship, an affluent and apparent military "caste" Booking a train, chaat stalls on the beach, dodgy but affordable accomodation, supplemented by slightly higher prices for great rooms. Cricket, Hockey, Ustad Fateh Ali Khan, SHK, and most importantly a disinterest in the "Elgin Stones" of sub Continental Asia, Nobody I talked to was much enamoured with the political bazaar called Kashmir, like the bulk of ordinary Indians, putting food on the table within the political realities of their country was paramount!

Digital Drifter · Mar 16th, 2006, 20:08

heh, you can say that again.

Every TV program which sends people to Pakistan, on the Indian TV channel shows an amazed anchor talking like Pakistani people are actually...erm...people.

Lookey....chaat stall.
lookey....salwar kameez shop, better designs than home,no?
Paan shop, hey, they do it like home.

Idiots.

We are no different from brainwashed Amerikans & Russians.

The same loud voices, the same loud music, the only difference would be the alcohol drinking part, I presume. we get sloshed openly while they have do it on the sly.

But I draw the line at Cricket.

WE ARE DIFFERENT. No, I don't need your analysis of why they're similar, or better.

TimMakins · Mar 16th, 2006, 21:29

Of course, its very similar indeed. After all, it was one country only a few years back, and even Darwin's natural selection doesn't create differences that quickly. The differences are all invented, for political reasons, and the sooner the average man in the street realises it, the better South Asia will be.

Tim in Ireland - 7 times to India, 3 times to Pakistan

Hyderabadi_1 · Mar 16th, 2006, 21:42

Quite agree with you Tim, though I've not yet been to Pakistan.

Travellor tip! One thing I do know if your passport has a Pakistan entry on it the Indian Embassy won't give you a Indian Tourist Visa for more than 6 months/single entry and you may even be called for an interview before they give you the Indian Visa!

DanielM · Apr 3rd, 2006, 05:46

Pakistan rules! I went there the very week that the Abu Ghraib scandal came out, and despite being American I had an amazing experience. Perhaps my relative ease with Urdu and backstock of memorized shairi had something to do with the reception, but even when i roamed the backstreets of peshawar, I never ever had a problem. People were warm, kind, caring, and went way out of their way to make sure that my trip was as enjoyable for me as possible.
At any rate, its the same, and its not, all at the same moment. Pakistans political allignment with the middle east and china has helped to give it some more of that flavor, as has the afghani/pathani influence. Some things that are startlingly different:
THe langauge. God forbid someone in the subcontinent actually use a local language. If you are interested in linguistics, you will find it heartening that most things come written in urdu or panjabi where you wouldnt have a chance in hell of finding the same thing in India. Mcdonalds, for example. (as you can see here in my old/old immature pictures from a trip there: https://webspace.utexas.edu/dmaj/img/index3.html) Pepsi bottles, same thing. Its in Urdu.
Men also tend to wear much more local clothing. Salwar Qameezes are still the prefered form of dress.
Because of links with China, there are lots of Chinese style rickshaws, or rickshaws mounted onto motorcycles. And then there are the lorries...

And so on and so on. But the culture is more or less the same, the people the same, its great. Sadly, when I told my friend in india that i was going many of them went to great lengths to try and convince me that I would certainly be killed, that those muslims are untrustworthy people, and on and on. I was glad I could prove them wrong.

PeakXV · Apr 3rd, 2006, 06:10

Does anybody know whether Sindh (Halla, Thatta, Hyderabad) - is safe for travel without body guards?

Shiver me Timbers · Apr 3rd, 2006, 12:19

I found everyday life in Pakistan to be basically the same as in India.

When I asked older Pakistanis about partition, most of them regretted it - "We are the same people...." The younger generation, however, seemed more nationalist. In 7 weeks, I never heard a (serious) bad word said against India.

And what a country!!!

volga_volga · Apr 4th, 2006, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

Does anybody know whether Sindh (Halla, Thatta, Hyderabad) - is safe for travel without body guards?

I went there (Thatta, Hyderabad, Sukkur then on to Southern Punjab) in Dec/Jan 2005 (spent my New Year's Eve in Hyderabad

) and didn't have a bodyguard but had a "male chaperon" ( i am female) who helped mainly with translation - i don't speak Urdu or Sindhi or Punjabi. other then during the evening in Sukkur i didn't feel threatened, and in Sukkur there was a demonstration of Sindh National Party (or something) so the city was a bit tense.

but once i realised their leader is socialist bordering on communism, i relaxed

oh, the Mohenjodaro site can only be visited by foreigners accompanied by an armed guard, but ours was so cute and friendly and his gun was made in china (half plastic). a funny memory - the mobile phones in Mohenjodaro only work on the top of the Stupa, and every time we approached it our phones would ring

Hyderabadi · Apr 4th, 2006, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by volga_volga

I went there (Thatta, Hyderabad, Sukkur then on to Southern Punjab) in Dec/Jan 2005 (spent my New Year's Eve in Hyderabad

) and didn't have a bodyguard but had a "male chaperon" ( i am female) who helped mainly with translation - i don't speak Urdu or Sindhi or Punjabi. other then during the evening in Sukkur i didn't feel threatened, and in Sukkur there was a demonstration of Sindh National Party (or something) so the city was a bit tense.

but once i realised their leader is socialist bordering on communism, i relaxed

oh, the Mohenjodaro site can only be visited by foreigners accompanied by an armed guard, but ours was so cute and friendly and his gun was made in china (half plastic). a funny memory - the mobile phones in Mohenjodaro only work on the top of the Stupa, and every time we approached it our phones would ring

There was a time when one would have to clarify whether they were from Hyderabad-Sindh or Hyderabad-Deccan, I hear, not that old to have heard it first hand..

PeakXV · Apr 5th, 2006, 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by volga_volga

I went there (Thatta, Hyderabad, Sukkur then on to Southern Punjab) in Dec/Jan 2005 (spent my New Year's Eve in Hyderabad

) and didn't have a bodyguard but had a "male chaperon" ( i am female) who helped mainly with translation - i don't speak Urdu or Sindhi or Punjabi. other then during the evening in Sukkur i didn't feel threatened, and in Sukkur there was a demonstration of Sindh National Party (or something) so the city was a bit tense.

but once i realised their leader is socialist bordering on communism, i relaxed

oh, the Mohenjodaro site can only be visited by foreigners accompanied by an armed guard, but ours was so cute and friendly and his gun was made in china (half plastic). a funny memory - the mobile phones in Mohenjodaro only work on the top of the Stupa, and every time we approached it our phones would ring

Thanks volga_volga - it's good to hear about your recent positive experiences. I just read "Sindh Revisited" by Christopher Ondaatje and although very well travelled - he seemed fairly cautious in traversing the Sindhi interior - albeit the book is slightly dated now.

skell · Apr 5th, 2006, 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielM

Pakistan rules! (as you can see here in my old/old immature pictures from a trip there: https://webspace.utexas.edu/dmaj/img/index3.html)
But the culture is more or less the same, the people the same, its great.

I really loved your pictures! Pakistan is high on my "to do" list and I think your photos show an very honest portrait of the places you visited.

volga_volga · Apr 6th, 2006, 15:47

skell, no kidding!
HIGHLY recommended.
personal favourite is the people and the mountains of Northern Pakistan

Hunza:
http://community.webshots.com/album/196300020SSXgcL

Baltistan:
http://community.webshots.com/album/196318386Nsgihr

volga_volga · Apr 6th, 2006, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeakXV

Thanks volga_volga - it's good to hear about your recent positive experiences. I just read "Sindh Revisited" by Christopher Ondaatje and although very well travelled - he seemed fairly cautious in traversing the Sindhi interior - albeit the book is slightly dated now.

some photos from that trip:
http://community.webshots.com/album/260986903TNNbDY

a few months later one of the guys from my Pak Travel Forum went a similar route through Sindh towards Baluchistan (Quetta), at a slower pace, and enjoyed it. but he spoke Urdu

somnath · Apr 6th, 2006, 16:53

Absolutely brilliant shots of the region.

And yessss……Nice to see your pix once again, Volga

.

Thanks for sharing.

Mar 16th, 2006, 18:51	#1
somnath Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 2,371	How was your trip to Pakistan? Omar Abdullah, minister of state for external affairs in the National Democratic Alliance government and president of the National Conference, is happy with his first trip to Pakistan. During the visit he met with Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf on Kashmir and presented him a document on greater autonomy for Kashmir passed by the Jammu and Kashmir assembly when his father, Dr Farooq Abdullah was chief minister. In an interview to Senior Associate Editor Onkar Singh after his return from Pakistan, he spoke about the highlights of his visit. How was your trip to Pakistan? Personally and professionally it was a very satisfying trip. I had gone there with mixed feelings about what to expect, and returned very satisfied. I was there to attend a meeting on Kashmir....... Read more... __________________ Learn as if you were going to live forever. Live as if you were going to die tomorrow. * My Travel Pix...

Mar 16th, 2006, 20:08	#3
Digital Drifter bang a whore? Bangalore Dammit! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,878	heh, you can say that again. Every TV program which sends people to Pakistan, on the Indian TV channel shows an amazed anchor talking like Pakistani people are actually...erm...people. Lookey....chaat stall. lookey....salwar kameez shop, better designs than home,no? Paan shop, hey, they do it like home. Idiots. We are no different from brainwashed Amerikans & Russians. The same loud voices, the same loud music, the only difference would be the alcohol drinking part, I presume. we get sloshed openly while they have do it on the sly. But I draw the line at Cricket. WE ARE DIFFERENT. No, I don't need your analysis of why they're similar, or better. __________________ Click here for the Indiamike train guide in PDF

Apr 3rd, 2006, 06:10	#7
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 4,187	Does anybody know whether Sindh (Halla, Thatta, Hyderabad) - is safe for travel without body guards? __________________ We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started ...and know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

Apr 3rd, 2006, 12:19	#8
Shiver me Timbers Dreaming of Palm Trees Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,495	I found everyday life in Pakistan to be basically the same as in India. When I asked older Pakistanis about partition, most of them regretted it - "We are the same people...." The younger generation, however, seemed more nationalist. In 7 weeks, I never heard a (serious) bad word said against India. And what a country!!! __________________ Europe to India Overland Andaman's Tips Pakistan Tips Flickr Photos

Apr 6th, 2006, 16:53	#15
somnath Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 2,371	Hi all, Absolutely brilliant shots of the region. And yessss……Nice to see your pix once again, Volga . Thanks for sharing.

Mar 16th, 2006, 19:06	#2
cyberhippie Account Closed by User's Request Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,012	It may be a glib or even inflammatory statement but the very short time I spent in Pakistan (before India) lead me to the feeling that politics and lines on maps aside, Pakistan was/is very similar to India, the rickshaws, crowded buses, street entrepreneurship, an affluent and apparent military "caste" Booking a train, chaat stalls on the beach, dodgy but affordable accomodation, supplemented by slightly higher prices for great rooms. Cricket, Hockey, Ustad Fateh Ali Khan, SHK, and most importantly a disinterest in the "Elgin Stones" of sub Continental Asia, Nobody I talked to was much enamoured with the political bazaar called Kashmir, like the bulk of ordinary Indians, putting food on the table within the political realities of their country was paramount!

Mar 16th, 2006, 21:42	#5
Hyderabadi_1 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: somewhere Posts: 17	Quite agree with you Tim, though I've not yet been to Pakistan. Travellor tip! One thing I do know if your passport has a Pakistan entry on it the Indian Embassy won't give you a Indian Tourist Visa for more than 6 months/single entry and you may even be called for an interview before they give you the Indian Visa!

Apr 3rd, 2006, 05:46	#6
DanielM Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lucknow/Austin Posts: 45	Pakistan rules! I went there the very week that the Abu Ghraib scandal came out, and despite being American I had an amazing experience. Perhaps my relative ease with Urdu and backstock of memorized shairi had something to do with the reception, but even when i roamed the backstreets of peshawar, I never ever had a problem. People were warm, kind, caring, and went way out of their way to make sure that my trip was as enjoyable for me as possible. At any rate, its the same, and its not, all at the same moment. Pakistans political allignment with the middle east and china has helped to give it some more of that flavor, as has the afghani/pathani influence. Some things that are startlingly different: THe langauge. God forbid someone in the subcontinent actually use a local language. If you are interested in linguistics, you will find it heartening that most things come written in urdu or panjabi where you wouldnt have a chance in hell of finding the same thing in India. Mcdonalds, for example. (as you can see here in my old/old immature pictures from a trip there: https://webspace.utexas.edu/dmaj/img/index3.html) Pepsi bottles, same thing. Its in Urdu. Men also tend to wear much more local clothing. Salwar Qameezes are still the prefered form of dress. Because of links with China, there are lots of Chinese style rickshaws, or rickshaws mounted onto motorcycles. And then there are the lorries... And so on and so on. But the culture is more or less the same, the people the same, its great. Sadly, when I told my friend in india that i was going many of them went to great lengths to try and convince me that I would certainly be killed, that those muslims are untrustworthy people, and on and on. I was glad I could prove them wrong.

Apr 6th, 2006, 15:47	#13
volga_volga Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,459	skell, no kidding! HIGHLY recommended. personal favourite is the people and the mountains of Northern Pakistan Hunza: http://community.webshots.com/album/196300020SSXgcL Baltistan: http://community.webshots.com/album/196318386Nsgihr

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