What language shall I try to learn?

vireya

The vowel sounds have a "complete" form, and a matra form. You use the complete form at the beginning of a word, or after another vowel sound. But most of the time, vowels appear as matras attached to a consonant. The exception is अ, which does not have a matra form, as it is implied in every consonant. So when you have two consonants beside each other, the अ is said between them. When you need two consonants together, without the implied अ, then they are joined together, like the च्छ in अच्छा, which is a "ch" sound and an aspirated "chh" joined together.

The example you have given is not quite correct, as explained by steadyfriend above. The matra ा is the long "aa" sound, and its full form is आ . The word अच्छा has a short "a" अ at the beginning, and a long "aa" आ at the end, in matra form, ा .

steadyfriend

Mrs = Mohtarma, I stand corrected, it was mistyping !

What's been stated above is broadly correct, but Urdu remains an admixture of Hindi, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, Turkish and indeed English loan words !

Its true the basic vocabulary of simple words ( originating from Khari Boli of the Indo-Gangetic plains ) is the same in both Hindi and Urdu. But many more refined Urdu words are in use in Hindi than in the reverse case.

For example, mirror = darpan(Hindi) & aainaa(Urdu), but aainaa is also used in Hindi. 'Darpan' would not be easily understood in Urdu (esp. in Pakistan)

Dilliwala

Many people wud dispute that . Including me, and I'm not hung up about it. Many refined Urdu words are indeed used, but in HINDUSTANI.
Small difference perhaps, but shuddh Hindi is almost Urdu-free.
Also, IMO the reason for few Hindi nouns/adjectives, etc being used in Urdu is mostly political.
Good examples you have given re aaina/darpan, but then again where I live lots of folks wud just say 'sheesha' . Aah, the pitfalls of a language that has 46 versions!

machadinha

But so anyway I take it the idea that one can learn either Urdu or Hindi and they'll be more-or-less mutually intelligible at least for daily spoken usage is a fluke? Just asking out of interest, that's what I've been made to understand so far. Never very seriously enquired I guess.

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capt_mahajan

Depends where you are.

In the North, generally speaking, and parts of central India, maybe.

In the East, West and South, unlikely, partly because many people are not even fluent with Hindustani.

However, there are exceptions. Areas which have a larger Muslim population will understand Hindi to an extent, and Urdu. The local version.

machadinha

Yes, thanks. I meant areas where Hindi (and Urdu, naturally) are spoken at all of course, which contrary to many people's expectations is far from everywhere.

But I can imagine that even so, areas where the two naturally intermingle (notably the North [-West] I assume) would be better for it by nature yes.

I had so far really been made to believe, and like some others here apparently, that the difference was just the script, whereas the spoken language is supposed to be practically identical. Apparently not, then, and I suppose it's just another of those vast generalizations. Makes sense really, I could never really see how it would be so. I mean I imagine cultural and historical backgrounds and idiom and stuff (and perhaps even syntax indeed) would be so different, as pointed out in some of the examples above, too. Think only of British vs. Americanese, and at least those share the same roots.

Oh well, just another of those many plans (to learn either or both), who knows if I ever get down to it. Must be handy to others to know though.

ps So what precisely should we understand to be the difference between Hindustani and Hindi? Is the former more colloquial/modernized, or...?

capt_mahajan

Disclaimer: Far from an expert

Even within Hindi, that does not apply

Punjabi Hindi, Mumbai Hindi, Hyderabadi Hindi... and god knows how many other varieties. One will understand the other, but a lot of the vocabulary and usage tends to be local.


Hindustani is based on Khariboli, and is the more formalised language. I would think, being not colloquial to most of India, it is probably not understood half as much as colloquial Hindi of any kind is.

But, as usual, I may be wrong

Ali-Monbeam

धप ्ाो oops..

just thinking have I made a right choice?
If I am learning just the common bog standard type Hindi will that be ok, even with a yorkshire accent thrown in???

steadyfriend

Very roughly, Hindustani is a mixture of simple Hindi & Urdu, shorn of the high flown features of either language. A very useful lang. for both India & Pakistan.

steadyfriend

Without sounding even more confusing, the best course of action for beginners would be to learn either Hindustani or simple Hindi ............ the Yorkshire accent might present a few problems, though !

capt_mahajan

yes it will


though that thing above should probably be धत

or, colloquially, धत तेरे की

steadyfriend

True, well said ! ..... the joys of Bambaiya Hindi ("Shaadi banayega ?"), Hyderabadi Hindi (or Rekta), rustic Panjabi Hindi and not to mention Haryanvi !!

The list goes on and on !!!

vireya

Last night I watched a Pakistani film, in Urdu. I understood about as much of it as I would have if it were a Hindi film. There were words I hadn't come across before, but for the most part the language was the same. It reassured me that if I ever visit the Urdu-speaking part of Pakistan, I will be able to get by speaking Hindi.

I maintain that for a learner, the differences will not be enough to stop you communicating at a basic understandable level with speakers of either language. It will be years before you have learned enough of either Hindi or Urdu to discuss philosophy with the native-speakers, when which language you are speaking will matter.

Ali-Monbeam

Quoted from capt_mahajanthough that thing above should probably be धत

or, colloquially, धत तेरे की ..........the धप was meant to be 'oh' forgot to switch key pad language.

I can recognize some letters and maybe read a word or two but as for those that you wrote capt, I have no idea what it means.

(now, if you wrote bath or check-in time or any other that are in my lessons...... )

Dilliwala

Zigackly
If it's intelligible on both sides of the border, it's Hindustani (but we can't tell THEM that ).

But at least they'll get the र sound right.

For you Yorkies, that's as in begorrah.