The Matrimonials and what they "mean"

Cayle

I spent part of Sunday reading the matrimonials in the newspaper. Afterwards, I had some new insight, but even more questions. I went and collected my thoughts on my blog this morning, but since only my wife and mother read it (and to be frank, they are the intended audience), I doubt that I'll find much insight only by asking there. If the mods don't mind, I'd like to repost the original here to see what kinds of answers people have for my questions. I highlited the paragraph with all the questions.

----Original-----

One of the little windows into the soul of a land is to read the classified ads in the newspaper. I find the matrimonial particularly interesting. I get the feel of a land that is deeply conservative and caste oriented, but seems to be in transition.

• It seems that nobody puts out their own ads. One particularly struck me. A woman is working in the HR department of a tech company in Bangalore. The contact email is on an ISP in Australia.
• Nobody says that they are looking for romance. Often, they are looking for an “alliance”.
• They read more like resumes than anything like a personal ad in the west. They don’t talk about walks in the moonlight or the kinds of books they read. Instead, they list educational qualifications, profession and income if it is high enough to be an asset.
• Sikh men – sorry “boys” (only boys and girls seem to be looking to get married, no men or women) – who are clean shaven always state it up front. My best guess is that this avoids the inevitable conversation that happens when Sikh families where the “it is ok to be clean cut” battle has yet to be fought meet the boy in question.
• People really stick to their own kind. The listings are segregated by language, religion, caste, and profession. There is a category for each of the different religions; Jain, Christian, Muslim and Hindu. There is a category for doctors and others for engineers, management, MBAs and techies. There is an entry for every state, so if you are looking for a nice Punjabi or Tamil boy for your daughter, they are all categorized for you. There are entries for each of the castes. Lastly, there is an entry for NRI/Green Card.

I really wonder about the entries that people choose. I guess that they will choose the one that puts their child in the best light. What does a Brahman engineer put his ad under? Brahman is the top caste, but being a highly educated professional is also highly desirable. I posed this question to my driver and his response was, “He would put it under Engineer Sir”. So being an engineer is better than being Brahman? Or do they put what is the most important part of their identity? Do people who list by state of origin do so because they don’t have any serious peacock plumage, such as high caste or professional qualifications? Lastly, why would someone enter themselves under Scheduled Castes (untouchables) instead of by state? Is it to avoid the inevitable “no way is my son marrying a Dalit girl” or is it because that defined their identity and identity is more important than peacock plumage?

So many questions!

Interestingly, there is an entry for “Cosmopolitan”. These people are early always highly educated, high earning professionals; about half of whom live in the US or UK. They nearly always say “caste no issue”. I presume this to mean that they are more interested in marrying other highly educated professionals. This would put them in line with the west by replacing caste with class.

Lastly, the language use is sometimes loads of fun read...

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Munivar

So being an engineer is better than being Brahman? Or do they put what is the most important part of their identity?

-- Depends on the person. Being an Engineer might bring him more money in dowry (or a girl from rich family)!

Do people who list by state of origin do so because they don’t have any serious peacock plumage

-- I would think language and local traditions may be important to that person. I know families who are ok with mixed marriages of same background (language and other customs etc) but of different castes.

Lastly, why would someone enter themselves under Scheduled Castes (untouchables) instead of by state?

-- Certain SC castes have very strong caste/community identities. So strong that they keep the caste name even after converting to Christianity.

Yes, when I am really bored...I do read matrimonials for timepass ...AND STRICTLY TIMEPASS

I see "caste no bar" entries have increased over time.

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shashank.aggarwal

Brahman is his caste and nothing to do with dowry or billing. He would be listed under engineer as he is an engineer and that would impact the level of Brahmin family (in laws) he gets...

And he would marry in a Brahman family only..

The state is important because people of same caste vary from state to state. Like I belong to Banya (Vaishya) caste, however a Rajaathani Banya, a UP Banya or a Punjabi banya would have some difference. Even they can marry interstate, however the prefer someone from similar state backgroud..as food habits, lifestyle and other things are almost same and if not same then easy to understand.

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dzibead

Like Gandhiji, nah?
(OK, I know I'm going OT.)

nayan

1. Ads are usually put by parents with inputs from the candidate about what to write. The contact details in the ads will belong to the parents or an older sibling. A bride/groom putting an ad for themselves will not be taken very seriously ie the seriousness to get married may be suspect.

2. They are indeed looking for an alliance. They are refreshingly frank about it. They are looking for marraige, not for dating/romance etc etc. there are other classifieds/internet sites for that purpose..... you use the matrimonials only when you are serious about marraige.... not when you are looking for romance

3. Like in any serious selection process... resumes are the first step. once the initial selection of say 20 prospects have been done based on the info given in the ads, the initial contact will be done. Based on the detailed conversation a further short list of 5 out of that 20 will be prepared. Date time will be fixed for these 5 meetings. This is the stage to discuss favorite books/movies/future hopes etc etc.

Talks about moonlight walks will come once the 5 has been pared down to the ONE.

shashank.aggarwal

Yes !!

dzibead

SGo

The Matrimonials and what they "mean"
The matrimonials also indicate that since people do not have the luxury to meet and then marry people they know, they might as well marry people with fewer unknown variables. That of course means that we have tons of predetermined notions. The reason people put their ads as a 'Brahmin engineer' is because of the reaction it will invoke in the mind of the reader. The reader, 9/10 times will assume that being a Brahmin he will have a certain lifestyle – maybe the fact that he is a vegetarian or that he is pious. Will either be true? Most people in India will actually say yes!

Nick-H

Fascinating, isn't it?

I suggest that you take a look at some of the on-line sites. The newspaper columns seem to be aimed at those who are prepared to proceed on the barest of 'necessary' information.

"Aliance" means the same as marriage. These ads are never about dating, or making friends, or romance: they are about the serious business of marriage! Online, you will find more ads placed by the person themsleves, but you will still find plenty placed by parents or other relatives: the serious business of arranged marriage.

Being an engineer, or a doctor, or a lawyer, yes, that is plummage. It used to be that government employee was the ultimate: a job for life with pension rights.

However, except for those who don't care about it, cast/community comes first and foremost. It is not a question of moving up or down, or one caste being more desirable than another; there is no mobility or flexibility in this system. A low-caste family will not be pleased to see their child marry into a high caste: they will be horrified! At the most extreme, a village community may even kill people for marrying accross caste. A friend of ours is a tribal woman from the North East who married a Tamil man; Although they are reconciled with her family now, during the earlier years of their marriage it was, I'm told, simply not physically safe for him to visit her parents or her village.

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federica

An Indian friend of mine compared the matrimonial ads always with ads for selling cars:

"It's about colour, power, social status..."

I always enjoyed reading them... you can learn a lot about the society.

Cardamom

Gosh, Cayle thanks for starting this thread! I spent a long Sunday reading the matrimonials section of the paper when I should have been working instead

However, after reading a few they get to be a bit repetitive with the use of adjectives, "Wheatish, Gupta girl", "fair and lovely Bengali girl", etc etc.

My dear friend who has been married for some time found that her parents were placing ads for her in the matrimonials while she was still single. She had no idea

C

Nick-H

I spent much of my pre-redundancy year of 'working at home' (happiest days of my working life ) doing it.

Well, the online version...

Devanampiya

I can give several reasons for cast based, Regional, Religion based & profession-based segregation:
1.There are many do’s & don’ts associated with the caste, for instance purda system is prevalent in higher caste. caste based segregation is important because both Bride and groom are grown up in that particular system which is followed in that particular caste,
2.Regional segregation is important because, India is a peculiar case, here, Culture & Traditions change every 100 kms, despite the Indian ness of all the states in India, culturally all are diverse,therefore,It is in interest of Bride & Groom to marry in their own region as it will not lead to any confusion,
3.Religion based segregation is important because, Culturaly all Indian religions are very different for instance, in Muslims there is a custom of slaughter of Goat on Eid and this slaughter will be a shock for any Orthodox Hindu,
4.Profession based segregation is Important more importantly in medical & similar fields as it can give a good insight in to each others working routine & more importantly, if Both Husband & wife are doctors, it would be easier for them to venture in to their own clinic.
And all this is done because, Hindu marriage is a Scarament, it’s a religious duty which every Hindu must perform, its not a contract for a Hindu. It’s a permanent union, divorce is not allowed and Marriage is permanent, although, Law allows it now.
Therefore, this is done to enforce the idea of permanency.
* According to one school of Jurisprudence, there are no Rights & everyone must perform his Duties, as Rights & duties are contradictory to each other. This Principle is imbibed in Hindu marriage, as the Priest tells the Duties of Groom & of Bride to them but he never mentions anybody’s rights, so that there will be a no clash for want of rights, instead, both will perform their duties & it will create harmony.
Whatever I wrote is of my personal belief, which I gathered through Several Law Books & by observing different cultural groups in India.
If any body differs in my view than, please enlight me with your views, it would be a great help.

brishti

i have been keeping away from the girl-child-award thread - oh well... here i go here

Devanampiya:
you started of quite well - #'s 1-4 and then...
all the following quotes are from your post.

total stereo-typing.
yes, some professional couples are good/enjoy working together. there are just as many who definitely do not.
numerous companies have a corporate policy that state, husband + wife cannot work in the same company... and so on and so forth.

oh heck - where do i begin...

since your whole paragraph is about them 'hindu' code of marital behaviour...
be kind enough to explain dowry deaths? child marriages? girl-infant-killings?
i could go on and on and on... but i'm feeling kinda weary, kinda nauseous.



:brishti

capt_mahajan

Maybe it should be martial.