Memories Of The British Raj. .extract from The Times

Britishraj · Oct 1st, 2009, 23:59

It’s ‘all’ the Raj again………………………………
Nostalgia for Imperial India is all around us, but our misty-eyed view of the sub-continent needs an update …..
Can we ever get India out of our blood? It is 58 years since the last British troops paraded past the Gateway to India landmark, boarded the steamer at Bombay and lowered the flag on the British Raj amid poverty, partition and bloodshed. But now we are back.
On the West End stage, red-coated officers toast Queen Victoria and the Empire as lovers nightly cross the racial divide to pour out their yearnings in the musical of The Far Pavilions. On Radio 4, The Jewel in the Crown, Paul Scott’s compelling drama of the end of British rule, is bringing alive again the confusion, prejudices and snobbery of two societies intertwined in hatred and in love. A new biography has been published of General Reginald Dyer, the “ Butcher of Amritsar”, whose order to shoot unarmed protesters in 1919 was the atrocity that, more than anything, made British rule untenable. .../...

Excerpt from:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....icle383861.ece

Mod Note:
Please do not paste whole articles without a link. Thanks for your attention!

PeakXV · Oct 2nd, 2009, 00:30

Interesting thoughts. Didn't know Merrick was based on Dyer .... have to revisit that series someday soon.

unclelach · Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:04

Britishraj, I see that the link is to an April 2005 article. Has the revived interest in the Raj lasted in Britain?

I'm reminded that several years back I saw in Singapore an upmarket clothing shop named "British India".

Kingstonian · Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:15

The Times, eh?

"Can we ever get India out of our blood? It is 58 years since the last British troops paraded past the Gateway to India ..."

I wonder who they meant by "we"?

capt_mahajan · Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:21

Link showing error message for me.

Nevertheless, wondering if India can get the British Raj out of its blood.

Kingstonian · Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:22

Ah.

What do you reckon?

capt_mahajan · Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:45

Unlikely in the next few generations, much as I would like to see that happen. Besides us having 'improved' (

) on the oppressive bureaucatic and legal system in the country since 1947- which means the Raj still remains very much part of us even now, in many ways- the British Raj is as much part of our recent history as anything else anyway.

In some cities one can't miss it- Delhi and Calcutta, for eg. The language which binds Indians is English. Some of the middle class- and armed forces- has an English tinge to their lifestyles, time warped in the times of the Raj.

The fact that the younger generation in India (and even many of mine) are ignorant of many of the regular atrocities committed under the Raj brings up mixed emotions in me. We ought to remember what happened without dwelling on it. I admit, however, that I see red whenever an Indian yearns for , unreservedly, 'the glorious days of the Raj', and I see blood whenever a skinhead type in the UK yells out a racist comment (which I know, even at the time, is an overreaction from me). And I am greatly annoyed when we blame either Nehru or Jinnah for partition; they were the sideshow (even if a big one), but the overwhelming- and calculated, conniving, callous and criminal- responsibility lay with the Raj.

My kids know very little about that time, in comparison to me; sometimes I feel it is better that way, because they start life without baggage.

And sometimes it seems a pity that they don't know.

Kingstonian · Oct 2nd, 2009, 15:37

Yeah.

I reckon history gets all tidied up, cleaned up, reduced to a few pretty headlines that make a good story, as the years pass.

But then, I find, it's re-discovered with new force by a subsequent generation. So I'd say, have faith - they'll figure it out. (But that's equally infuriating, as you find yourself thinking - "er yes, that is what I was saying 20 years ago ...")

It's all so complicated. My own current frustration is with those of my fellow Brits who seem to think, "slavery - that was centuries ago, it's nothing to do with me", or "the British Empire - that's ancient history - it's nothing to do with me".
Well yes. And no. But on the other hand ... And you need to understand ... But some people ... while others ... and it matters because ... but it's irrelevant because ...

Oct 1st, 2009, 23:59	#1
Britishraj Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 186	Memories Of The British Raj. .extract from The Times It’s ‘all’ the Raj again……………………………… Nostalgia for Imperial India is all around us, but our misty-eyed view of the sub-continent needs an update ….. Can we ever get India out of our blood? It is 58 years since the last British troops paraded past the Gateway to India landmark, boarded the steamer at Bombay and lowered the flag on the British Raj amid poverty, partition and bloodshed. But now we are back. On the West End stage, red-coated officers toast Queen Victoria and the Empire as lovers nightly cross the racial divide to pour out their yearnings in the musical of The Far Pavilions. On Radio 4, The Jewel in the Crown, Paul Scott’s compelling drama of the end of British rule, is bringing alive again the confusion, prejudices and snobbery of two societies intertwined in hatred and in love. A new biography has been published of General Reginald Dyer, the “ Butcher of Amritsar”, whose order to shoot unarmed protesters in 1919 was the atrocity that, more than anything, made British rule untenable. .../... Excerpt from: http://entertainment.timesonline.co....icle383861.ece Mod Note: Please do not paste whole articles without a link. Thanks for your attention! __________________ Elvis Has Left The Building Last edited by theyyamdancer : Oct 2nd, 2009 at 00:42. Reason: For copyright reasons, I have shortened the text and added a link

Oct 2nd, 2009, 00:30	#2
PeakXV Naan.tering Nabob Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Abode of Glooscap Posts: 5,881	Interesting thoughts. Didn't know Merrick was based on Dyer .... have to revisit that series someday soon. __________________ What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us. ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes Don't go to India ~ Pre-trip Warnings & Misconceptions?

Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:21	#5
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,608	Link showing error message for me. Nevertheless, wondering if India can get the British Raj out of its blood. __________________ . Outside the machine

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Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:04	#3
unclelach Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: melbourne, australia Posts: 263	Britishraj, I see that the link is to an April 2005 article. Has the revived interest in the Raj lasted in Britain? I'm reminded that several years back I saw in Singapore an upmarket clothing shop named "British India".

Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:15	#4
Kingstonian Still lurking Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: UK Posts: 1,117	The Times, eh? "Can we ever get India out of our blood? It is 58 years since the last British troops paraded past the Gateway to India ..." I wonder who they meant by "we"?

Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:22	#6
Kingstonian Still lurking Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: UK Posts: 1,117	Ah. What do you reckon?

Oct 2nd, 2009, 14:45	#7
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,608	Unlikely in the next few generations, much as I would like to see that happen. Besides us having 'improved' ( ) on the oppressive bureaucatic and legal system in the country since 1947- which means the Raj still remains very much part of us even now, in many ways- the British Raj is as much part of our recent history as anything else anyway. In some cities one can't miss it- Delhi and Calcutta, for eg. The language which binds Indians is English. Some of the middle class- and armed forces- has an English tinge to their lifestyles, time warped in the times of the Raj. The fact that the younger generation in India (and even many of mine) are ignorant of many of the regular atrocities committed under the Raj brings up mixed emotions in me. We ought to remember what happened without dwelling on it. I admit, however, that I see red whenever an Indian yearns for , unreservedly, 'the glorious days of the Raj', and I see blood whenever a skinhead type in the UK yells out a racist comment (which I know, even at the time, is an overreaction from me). And I am greatly annoyed when we blame either Nehru or Jinnah for partition; they were the sideshow (even if a big one), but the overwhelming- and calculated, conniving, callous and criminal- responsibility lay with the Raj. My kids know very little about that time, in comparison to me; sometimes I feel it is better that way, because they start life without baggage. And sometimes it seems a pity that they don't know.

Oct 2nd, 2009, 15:37	#8
Kingstonian Still lurking Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: UK Posts: 1,117	Yeah. I reckon history gets all tidied up, cleaned up, reduced to a few pretty headlines that make a good story, as the years pass. But then, I find, it's re-discovered with new force by a subsequent generation. So I'd say, have faith - they'll figure it out. (But that's equally infuriating, as you find yourself thinking - "er yes, that is what I was saying 20 years ago ...") It's all so complicated. My own current frustration is with those of my fellow Brits who seem to think, "slavery - that was centuries ago, it's nothing to do with me", or "the British Empire - that's ancient history - it's nothing to do with me". Well yes. And no. But on the other hand ... And you need to understand ... But some people ... while others ... and it matters because ... but it's irrelevant because ...