M F Husain to lose home over nude "Mother India"

tnog · May 17th, 2007, 14:07

Some more info on the attack on the arts:

Just wanted to link this International Herald Tribune article on MF Husain. Husain is currently living in Dubai, essentially in self-imposed exile due to threats on his life (the Shiv Sena is offering a 5 lakh Rs--$13,000--bounty for anyone to hack off one of his arms) and frivolous lawsuits. Husain is 91 years old.

The main controversy is his depictions of nude female goddesses, as Amrit Sharma, a spokesman for the Vishwa Hindu Parishad says :

Quote:

"As far as Western minds are concerned, there is not much objectionable about nudity," he said. "But in Hindu thinking, women's bodies should be covered. He has done many pictures of our biggest goddesses in the nude. This is highly objectionable and it is for the courts to punish him."

Though, I suggest if nude female figures are objectionable for "Hindu thinking" then we'd better start by wiping out a much more unwholesome place, like the temples at Khajuraho, before we try to cleanse ourselves of the degenerate art of a few old men and students.

shashank.aggarwal · May 17th, 2007, 14:56

India's Geatest Living Artist...who.. MF Hussain..

Cmmon..our life is way better than that...;-)

tnog · May 17th, 2007, 15:04

Yeah, my headline is a bit sensational isn't it?

Call it yellow journalism...

But fitting in something more appropriate like "Somewhat Important Indian Artist, Member of the influential Progressive Group Artists' Collective... blah, blah, blah." Just don't grip yo' cajones in the same way, savvy?

Me, I'm going to cast a vote for my neighborhood sign painter, he is a true 'artiste'!

batistuta · May 17th, 2007, 19:46

Tnog, It's not nude female figures which gets Hindu activists riled up, It's the painting of female dieties who are revered in the Hindu Pantheon of gods. There was a similar thread about the same topic.

Hussain is not a better Painter than Yusuf Arakkal.

In the parlour · May 17th, 2007, 20:25

Seems like it is far more than simple nudity that has upset Shiv Sena. There is a very long tradition of portraying deities in very sensual and nude forms (see Chola period bronzes of Parvati and Shiva).

According to this site, Mr. Husain's paintings go far beyond simple nudity and sensuality: http://www.sanatan.org/hussaincampaign/painting.php.

Not sure how they come up with some of the interpretations (I think there are other, more reasonable interpretations of what is represented), but you can see how some people might be upset.

tnog · May 17th, 2007, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by In the parlour

Seems like it is far more than simple nudity that has upset Shiv Sena. There is a very long tradition of portraying deities in very sensual and nude forms (see Chola period bronzes of Parvati and Shiva).

Again that's the whole gist of the issue when it comes to these culture war debates, who defines what is obscene and what gets framed as tradition or religious piety?

In this case, it's been remarked by some commentators on the left, that such interpretation of tradition by the Shiv Sena and VHP are more or less repackaged victorian moral codes, clothed in a fascist ideology. Less to do with spiritual sanctity but more to do with a displaced secular consecration of the State.

The disservice that this does, IMHO (I'm a blind heathen here), for Hinduism is that it merely mirrors the West's, own preoccupations and doesn't really adequately acknowledge the incredible beauty, depth and uniqueness (not to mention diversity and tolerance) of Hinduism.

Just my 2 cents.

ananda2193 · May 17th, 2007, 20:59

Thank's for the link In The Parlour,

And I can see how people would be angry. There pretty pornographic in nature. Looks like something you'd see in Hustler or something, not that i've ever seen a Hustler before

. Definitely not spiritually inspired work.

But death threats and cutting his arms off is a little radical.

Darmabum · May 17th, 2007, 21:36

to several of the artisans that created the Taj . . . I believe the man that did the calligraphy above the main entrance had his hands 'removed' after completing his work . . . so nothing equaling what he did could be repeated . . .

jaat · May 17th, 2007, 21:40

Thank's for the link In The Parlour,
hmmm..I can just imagine what that dirty old mind must be thinking when he declared madhuri dixit,amrita rao,tabu as his muses.They say in hindi that when a flame is about to die out,it flutters wildly before it actually extinguishes..now I know who they had in mind when they coined this.

capt_mahajan · May 17th, 2007, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by In the parlour

According to this site, Mr. Husain's paintings go far beyond simple nudity and sensuality:

.... and....

but you can see how some people might be upset.

Yes, it was some of these paintings I was referring to, in the other thread on Hussein, (some loss of his house, but looks like he lost a country). Kind of repeating it here, sorry.

He does not get any special freedom just coz he claims to be an artist.

And I am a bad Hindu

; you are right, some people might be upset, and rightfully so.

As to the general argument, what about the erotic carvings in temples, well, heritage is different from sensationalist commercialism, in my opinion. But then, maybe the guys who carved those are in Dubai too

In the parlour · May 17th, 2007, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnog

In this case, it's been remarked by some commentators on the left, that such interpretation of tradition by the Shiv Sena and VHP are more or less repackaged victorian moral codes, clothed in a fascist ideology.

Good point. Seems as if India had a very rich tradition of the sensual prior to the British era, which seems to have stifled it, albeit indirectly. Apparently the relationship between the deity and the devotee was represented in sexual terms because of its intensity. Intense emotions of two lovers approximates the love for God, and is best translated in sexual terms in art.

Maybe the Shiv Sena should become more familiar with their own spiritual tradition.

capt_mahajan · May 17th, 2007, 22:21

The reaction of the Shiv Sena types is usually condemnable, and in this case too. Ridiculous. (In fact, people like me who hold them in contempt feel cheated because any criticism of Hussein tends to lump us with these types.)

But that does not mean that they can't be right on issues once in a long while.

Rothrock · May 18th, 2007, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaat

They say in hindi that when a flame is about to die out,it flutters wildly before it actually extinguishes

Jaat – A bit off topic, I'm collecting Hindi sayings. How would you actually say that?

amyl · May 18th, 2007, 17:59

Whoa!!!!

Hussain!

The old man is here too!!

Just last night I replied to a friend on my personal mailing list. This friend was kind of upset on how things are "handled" in India.... specially by the religious activists. Save me typing the actual Gujurat scene...let me paste that item here...Not sure if this has reached IM ,if it has do not read the following block...it's the same

Quote:

Subject: On-Line Petition - Attack on M. S. University Autonomy
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends,

We write this letter to request you to sign a petition to the Governor of
Gujarat condemning the recent events at the Maharaja Sayajirao University
of Baroda. A group of people with affiliations to Hindu supremacist
groups barged into the Fine Arts campus, disrupted the examination and
abused and threatened students and faculty members. A student was
arrested for offending religious sentiments, and the Dean of the Faculty
was suspended. Such attempts to stifle by force the rights to free speech
and expression of individuals, and to impose on society in general the
narrow perceptions of certain sections regarding what is permissible and
what is not, constitute a serious threat to political, intellectual, and
artistic freedoms in India. These attacks are especially worrisome since
it points to a nexus between members of the Hindu nationalist BJP, who
carried out the attack, the police, and the top levels of the University
administration including its Vice Chancellor Manoj
Soni.

The petition is available at http://www.petitiononline.com/MSUAUTO/

The details of the incident are as follows. On 9th May 2007, students of
the Fine Arts Faculty had put up their installations around the Faculty
campus as part of their annual internal examination/display. The Fine
Arts Faculty is one of the best-known institutions within the M. S.
University. The Faculty has also nurtured many renowned artists and it is
here that the famous Baroda School of Art developed.

That afternoon, Vadodara-based BJP leader Niraj Jain (accused for the
2002 Gujarat carnage by Concerned Citizens Tribunal - Gujarat), stormed
into the Faculty premises, accompanied by local police and some
accomplices. They manhandled Chandramohan, a final year MA student (and
recipient of the Gujarat Lalit Kala Academy Award, 2005-06) who had put
up some graphic prints. They accused him of offending their religious
sentiments, saying that he had portrayed the goddess Durga in an obscene
way. Dr. Shivji Panikkar, the Dean in charge, was also threatened with
dire consequences by Niraj Jain and his cohorts.

Subsequently, Chandramohan was arrested and charged under sections 153A,
114, and 295 of the Indian Penal Code for "promoting enmity between
different groups on grounds of religion, race etc, committing acts
prejudicial to the harmony of the public". His examination works – which
had been put up only for the sole purpose of the final examination*were
apparently "offensive" to public religious sentiments.
Since no citizen can be charged with Section 153 without the sanction of
the State or Central government, and since in this case no sanction was
sought, this was in effect an illegal detention.

The police also refused to register a complaint against Niraj Jain when
students, teachers and other organizations like PUCL approached them.

On May 10, at Chandramohan's bail hearing, alongwith the VHP and BJP
crowds, at least 40 priests from the Methodist Church had also joined the
cacophony of voices against Chandra Mohan.

In the meantime, the University authorities not only refused to support
the students and the staff but insisted that Professor Shivaji Panikkar,
Dean in charge of the Faculty (as well as author and editor of
Saptamatrka Worship and Sculptures, 1997; Twentieth-Century Indian
Sculpture, 2002; Towards a New Art History: Studies in Indian Art, 2003
among others), apologize to the BJP.

On the next day, May 11, the students and staff, denied any other form of
protest, put up an exhibition focusing on the long history of erotic
imagery in both Indian and Western art. In response, the Deputy Registrar
issued a verbal request, followed by a written order, that the exhibition
be closed down. Dr. Panikkar refused to comply as it was a decision by
the students and this was their way of lodging a peaceful protest. Later
in the day, the Pro Vice Chancellor, along with some members of the
Syndicate arrived at the Faculty and locked up the exhibition. The same
night, at 10 p.m. a suspension order was pasted on the door of Dr.
Panikkar's residence. He has been suspended for three months, not only
from Deanship, but also as the Head of the Art History Department. No
reasons were given for the suspension.

Chandra Mohan was released on 14th May 2007. The suspension order against
Dr. Panikkar continues, and fearing attacks and arrest, he has been
forced to go underground.

Over the last few days, art historians, critics, activists, artists and
art lovers have launched a nation-wide protest against the Gujarat
government's latest act of fascism. On 14 th May 2007, over 1000 artists
from all over the country gathered at the Faculty to protest against the
suspension of the Dean, the role of the University authorities, the
police, Niraj Jain and the political forces he represents. Despite
intimidation and abuse from some Hindu supremacist activists, the meeting
conducted its protest successfully. That apart, artists in other cities
like Mumbai, Delhi, Guwahati also held protest meetings The battle is
being fought on many levels – emails, blogs, protest meetings, legal
proceedings, petitions, press releases, and signature campaigns.

We urge you to go through this petition, sign it, and also forward this
email widely. In addition, you could also send letters of protest to some
of the officials whose names and addresses are provided at the end of
this letter.

In protest

Pantul Kothari

For Association of Academics and Citizens for University Autonomy

Officials to whom letters of protest could be sent:

The President of India
Abdul Kalam
Office of the President
152 South Block Delhi
New Delhi, India
Email: presidentofindia@rb.nic.in
Website: http://presidentofindia.nic.in/

Prime Minister
Dr. Manmoham Singh
South Block, Raisina Hill
New Delhi, India 110011
Tel: 011 91 11 2301 2312
Fax: 011 91 11 2301 9545
Write to PM at http://pmindia.nic.in/write.htm

Manoj Soni
Vice Chancellor, M. S. University
Phone: +91-265-2795600
Fax: +91-265-2793693
Email: manojsoni@msubaroda.ac.in

Copy to:

People's Union for Civil Liberties
C/o, Shishu Milap, 1, Shrihari Apartments,
Behind Express Hotel, Vadodara – 390 007, Gujarat
Phone: Chinu Srinivasan ® =91-265 - 2342539, Rohit Prajapati +91-265 - 2320399

I had no reason to revere the so called 'renowned artist', Hussain for art as am not following and inclined towards this faculty....but now got a justifiable reason to detest and in fact to seek a way of ousting him....may be not actually manhandle him as that might seem "radical" to some non-violence-followers here.
I got this reason to show no respect for him as a person from this viewing .....a forward I got some days back. Some may take it biased but think over it.

That Gujurat case and this pervert Hussain's reckless mischiefs are on the same lines. And I still feel they both deserved every bit of their suffering. No, I do not have malicious thoughts but I do seek justice. Nor I am policing around on who shud behave in what way...I have no authority to do that but I have right to say what I feel is wrong in the social scenario.

All such incidents have always boiled down to that one issue...much in debate ....."Right to....".

So, I have "Right to express".

Am an ace artist......Oh yeah.....I have skill and I have the right.....Lets paint her nude....oops..who is that, by the way?... naah, no worries! doesn't matter.lets paint her nude in this pose...and this....another with this guy beside her and with that one as well.......am an artist.......its an art after all and I have right to express, you see and am doing just that.

Well..that's ok brother but what have you done????!!!! You have rivaled and hurt the sentiments of millions of ppl around you and you have the above underlined explanation to give to the millions, a fractional count of whom wants you to be hanged, amputated? (I personally just want to gently kick your ass and put urs on an a donkey and take u around the town.I am a non-violent person so won't go extreme. Yeah, I have the right to be non-violent, you see). Well if art is what you want to show and you see nudity as a beautiful notion then why not shed ur own clothes and go to a human size mirror and paint you own thing(if u can bear the view) in different poses. Why be so selective on the subjects you want to portray specially when even an idiot can foresee trouble on that selection for such paintings. Oh, is it that you are way below that idiotic level??

I personally feel that he has not exhibited his art in doing such artwork but has in fact expressed his feelings.....and these feelings are clearly visible in the BOLD line above while he is painting. He ignores all social bindings and ethical responsibilities in the "Right-To" fever and put his pervert thoughts into his skills.

He has shown
1. Disrespect
2. Intention to instill a fuss and violence
3. Hypocrisy
4. Mockery of things respected and revered by the majority...
5. Arrogance
etc

If you have such feelings for your country and its ppl or in general towards humanity, you will face such threats from some of them, without fail. As the cliche goes "As you sow, so shall you reap".

Social Law: He who neglects current social bindings entails/deserves to every suffering.

Now the big question is: Do the social activists have the right to take care of the sentiments of others and execute punishments???? Well we have all sorts of Rights for oneself......are there any "Right to....for others"?? ummmm.....sorry ...I have absolutely no idea if there are any. But I think such activists(includes general public) get instilled by a strange but common understanding that if something does not fit in the society it must be taken care of. And these activists not always have ulterior interests in the protest and indeed have a common understanding and a sense of responsibility that gives them an unwritten right to do something to maintain decorum in the society.

Quote:

VHP and BJP crowds, at least 40 priests from the Methodist Church had also joined the cacophony of voices against Chandra Mohan.

Why wud priests join in to wash the taints put by these artists on a Hindu belief??? Besides students why even working professionals who had nothing to do with the colleges anymore (may be they were thinking of their children...but not all) took part in the "Anti Reservation" protest that was such a furor and horrble.... that's a common understanding I am talking about... and eventually the right to protest.....

At the same time I do not really subscribe the concept of Shiva Sena... the way they protest... Such artists shud not be manhandled or hurt physically... If given a chance I would use each and every artwork of such artists to wipe...................tables!

Rights ...rights.......in this fever of Rights some arrogant ppl tend to forget the sense of responsibility towards the society and the ppl.

So.... these artists deserve their suffering........and Shiv Sena's ways are not the best ways to handle such situations.

whatsoever the Shiva Sena does with Husssain's hands at the moment am glad that the Admin has given me the "Right to Submit"

so here I click on submit and execute my right. heee haaaw.

I hope Hussain stays away from India and also his feelings stay away from his brush else Shiva Sena might just take the next flight to Dubai...or 'outsource' the job to someone in Dubai itself.

machadinha · May 18th, 2007, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by amyl

Not sure if this has reached IM

Moral Police Hit Vadodara, Artist in Prison!

May 17th, 2007, 14:56	#32
shashank.aggarwal The Fortunate One Join Date: May 2007 Location: Road Posts: 6,820	India's Geatest Living Artist...who.. MF Hussain.. Cmmon..our life is way better than that...;-) __________________ Spineless Travelogue - Around India

May 17th, 2007, 20:25	#35
In the parlour Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The US Posts: 107	Seems like it is far more than simple nudity that has upset Shiv Sena. There is a very long tradition of portraying deities in very sensual and nude forms (see Chola period bronzes of Parvati and Shiva). According to this site, Mr. Husain's paintings go far beyond simple nudity and sensuality: http://www.sanatan.org/hussaincampaign/painting.php. Not sure how they come up with some of the interpretations (I think there are other, more reasonable interpretations of what is represented), but you can see how some people might be upset. __________________ It is great to shake off the trammels of the world and public opinion...and to be known by no other title than The Gentleman in the Parlour. -William Hazlitt

May 17th, 2007, 21:36	#38
Darmabum On the Road, wherever I am Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: in the mountains of Idaho . . . now the red-rock plateau of southern Utah Posts: 1,109	Sounds a bit like what Shah Jahan had done to several of the artisans that created the Taj . . . I believe the man that did the calligraphy above the main entrance had his hands 'removed' after completing his work . . . so nothing equaling what he did could be repeated . . . __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate; our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure - Marianne Williamson

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
how much weight did you lose?	ace	Health and Well Being in India	36	Nov 5th, 2009 09:38
How much weight did you lose in India?	ren	Health and Well Being in India	61	Jan 18th, 2008 11:28
Thank you mother India	ammadas	Chai and Chat	2	Sep 4th, 2005 13:30
Last day in India , hello home, sweeeeeet home	RTodor	Chai and Chat	8	Feb 6th, 2004 21:23
India wins and aussies lose	rahul	Sports in India	16	Dec 18th, 2003 04:10

May 17th, 2007, 15:04	#33
tnog yeah, mhm Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 131	Yeah, my headline is a bit sensational isn't it? Call it yellow journalism... But fitting in something more appropriate like "Somewhat Important Indian Artist, Member of the influential Progressive Group Artists' Collective... blah, blah, blah." Just don't grip yo' cajones in the same way, savvy? Me, I'm going to cast a vote for my neighborhood sign painter, he is a true 'artiste'!

May 17th, 2007, 19:46	#34
batistuta Maha Guru Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,727	Tnog, It's not nude female figures which gets Hindu activists riled up, It's the painting of female dieties who are revered in the Hindu Pantheon of gods. There was a similar thread about the same topic. Hussain is not a better Painter than Yusuf Arakkal.

May 17th, 2007, 20:59	#37
ananda2193 Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: you essay Posts: 1,902	Thank's for the link In The Parlour, And I can see how people would be angry. There pretty pornographic in nature. Looks like something you'd see in Hustler or something, not that i've ever seen a Hustler before . Definitely not spiritually inspired work. But death threats and cutting his arms off is a little radical.

May 17th, 2007, 21:40	#39
jaat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: gurgaon Posts: 121	Thank's for the link In The Parlour, hmmm..I can just imagine what that dirty old mind must be thinking when he declared madhuri dixit,amrita rao,tabu as his muses.They say in hindi that when a flame is about to die out,it flutters wildly before it actually extinguishes..now I know who they had in mind when they coined this.

May 17th, 2007, 22:21	#42
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,605	The reaction of the Shiv Sena types is usually condemnable, and in this case too. Ridiculous. (In fact, people like me who hold them in contempt feel cheated because any criticism of Hussein tends to lump us with these types.) But that does not mean that they can't be right on issues once in a long while.