It Began With The Misionary (Visa) Position

edwardseco

Is this bias due to years of study in the area or does it just come naturally? While no fan of missionary work at all I have to say from some reading of the records where I worked in India that this is unbeleivably shallow..

edwardseco

I before E, maf kara..

capt_mahajan

except after c

federica

I can speak only about the catholic church, and there are far more Indian priests working in Germany (call it as a missionary if you want to) than German priests working in India as missionaries... and I guess for many other countries it's similar.

mazha

Yes, it is based on firsthand information, living among lots of Christians. Note that I said "new ones". Most people converted recently don't do it because of a spiritual calling towards the church, or because of an epiphany after reading the Bible, or some similar self-propelled reason, as often happens in the case of converts to Buddhism and Hinduism. They convert purely because they are enticed to convert, by some form of reward offered by missionaries.

I agree that there are lots of fervent Indian-origin Christian believers who want to convert people (I've been enticed to convert by some of them), but they are usually not new Christians. Even the new ones who try to convert do so because there is a reward element involved, they wouldn't be all that interested in converting others if you take that reward component away.

federica

I feel it is better to have a reward component than this psycho stuff: if you don't convert you'll end up in hell...

machadinha

Nope, alas (or not that I know of), or all Poiple's troubles would be solved.

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capt_mahajan

More offtopic, and crossposted:

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints,
the sinners are much more fun"

(Billy Joel, 'only the good die young'- banned by a radio station at a 'religious' university, after which it become a huge hit in the 70's, I think. Joel then wrote to the archdiosese who had banned it, asking them to ban his next record, too )

edwardseco

Anecdotal evidence is flimsy indeed. Ever heard of subjective bias? Fieldwork training teaches better methodology. In short, you say, he say is garbage. The historical record (I was very bored at times) doesn't support this thesis. Even Brahmins would convert and that was what would cause big time issues..

grikoo

I agree that the style of Mazha's argument is pretty flimsy.

However, it is a well known fact that christian organizations frequently use baiting tactics to win converts, and what Mazha is talking about surely occurs to some extent in India. It's certainly widespread in Africa. Even in the US, many homeless shelters REQUIRE you to attend a daily sermon prior to being fed or housed. For many organizations this is an absolute rule- no sermon, no food, no bed. If you're late to the sermon- too bad, you get to starve. Despicable if you ask me.

It's about the least 'christian' thing you can do, and these organizations WOULD NOT use these tactics if they didn't work. We are animals after all, and the reward system DOES work.

Subjective bias- While subjective bias is an incontrovertible fact, it can sometimes be seen as proof of, rather than an argument against, a given situation. Prejudices don't generally develop out of nothing. Things happen, people form opinions. Whether those opinions are valid is another matter, but you can't just dismiss them outright because of subjective bias.

All that said, this thread has lots of good info in it. Let's not have it digress into christian-bashing or other off topic bickering.

Nick-H

I do not think there is any doubt that some very doubtful, if not despicable, work has been done in the name of conversion.

It is also true to say that there are Indians who have converted for a wide range of other reasons.

I have no problem with bashing those who practice balance-sheet conversion. I suppose that I do have a bit of a problem wit evangelisim*, which is a part of Christianity; they are supposed to save the souls of others.

Personally, I have as much problem with being told my soul needs saving, as I do with being told that I'm not fit to enter a temple. There we go.

*Luckily my Christian wife does too. She believes that if doing good work attracts people to the the church, fair enough; she will never preach or evangelise. She will do the good work even if it doesn't. She doesn't expect the pujari's children she helped to arrange education for to turn up at church --- although it's a lot more likely than me ever doing so!

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grikoo

Maybe we should start a new thread - 'Are Christians the most sinful of all?'

Or not.

Personally, I could go on about the absurdities of christian thought for days, weeks, months or even years. Indeed, my father and I have had an ongoing discussion about it for nearly 25 years. But it's a civil discussion, and one which is based on a mutual desire for understanding and personal improvement (and a little evangelism on both our parts).

Again, it seems perfectly good threads ultimately devolve into random bickering and name calling.

Maybe we could start a whole new forum- 'Click here to vent your frustrations on others'!

Nick-H

Who are you calling random bickerers and name callers?



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poipleshadow

Hi All... It's me here poipleshadow... For those who hadn't noticed I started this 'vibrant' thread off due to probably by a badly chosen question. Perhaps I should have asked 'What's the best visa option for a charity worker (that's got nothing to do with any known religion) who wants to stay as long as possible to do non religous charity work in India.... ) Or something like that... I have actually enjoyed all the 'rambings' on here from everybody, not really helped, but been fun... thanks

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Rob
Trying to make the world a better place is really hard...

grikoo

Nobody yet, you @^&*%$$!