It Began With The Misionary (Visa) Position

poipleshadow

navinkurian2002 - Thanks for that, will see if I can get in touch...

federica - Will see how things go and try and get some recommendations off some of the government officers here, although people in government don't really like to stick their necks out normally...

FoolOnTheHill - Some people views of charity are not the same as others, I agree, that was one of the reasons for starting something myself.

Indian Visas.. The government (as was mentioned previously) is the one who called it a mistionary visa, I don't think this thread would have been so 'firey' if it was called Work/Charity visa...

iwanttogoback : thanks... ) Will keep you posted as and when I know more... I suppose I could just marry a nice Indian lady - save all the hassle!

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Rob
Trying to make the world a better place is really hard...

kristinm

I would be worried that if I were on a missionary visa I would be subjected to a lot more surveillance and suspicion than otherwise, and also likely to be rounded up or targeted if any situation arose that warranted it... There must be something for NGOs - why not contact some of the bigger (non religious) ones and ask what they do?

poipleshadow

Hopefully anyone who is interested in the type of visa will already know that it's not a reason to be 'religious', it's can also be used for charity work... Also Goa especially is very religious anyway, with lots of Christian, Hindu, Muslim and lots of others so I don't think it would be a big issue here, perhaps if I was in a mainly Hindu or Muslim area (as I guess most people would assume I was Christian (as I'm white!!)... Already had people assume that... It can be difficult to get past peoples own fears.... I'll go to the foriegn section at the goernment and see if there's anything else I can do here first I guess....

kristinm

I was wondering if it might function like a journalists visa and be a way of them keeping tabs on people they may (rightly or wrongly) suspect of going to do something disruptive or attract some kind of negative action - or whatever.... I wonder if all countries have missionary visas? I'll have a look - now I'm interested. I'm always interested in how big brother works ..

Paranoid? Me?

machadinha

While you were apparently told this, I'm not convinced of it (that it can be applied to charity work per se).

Again, it seems hard to find out about the precise details or interpretations of the visa. From that info I looked up for you earlier, it would seem that the confusion about "charities" slips in because many religious organizations will be involved in charitable work by nature. Or one step further: That the visa exists in an attempt to facilitate and ensure they stick to such charitable work, and don't engage in proselytizing, which would then seem highly restricted (I assume one may be allowed to attend to the already converted) if not outright illegal.

I've seen no evidence so far that this can be turned around to mean that the visa would cover those working for charities with no religious affiliation whatsoever. I doubt it. Just as many Indians will assume you are Christian because you're white, it could be a simple case of that official telling you so because they can't imagine you'd be running your charity without some religious inspiration. Or just because they don't know the ins and outs of the rules either.

Maybe you could look up a lawyer specialized in immigration laws in either Goa or Mumbai or so who comes recommended by people you know.

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kristinm

This is, of course, irrelevant to the OP - but as I said I became interested in the whole concept and it turns out Australia does have a category of visa for religious workers - they have to be trained & qualified and sponsored by a religious organisation and can only work for that organisation. Its amazing how much sway religions hold over supposedly secular Governments....

machadinha

I'd say it's the other way around: To control their activities, by those governments (well, I suppose there's some correlation. But else, how would the conditions be so strict.)

But if you search a little you'll find them for several countries yes. Can't say I went very deeply into it.

kristinm

Either or I suppose - but when bona fide refugees have to wait years to get their family members here out of refugee camps it seems unfair that if you are a 'religious worker' you can come and bring your whole family.. Mind you - if you want a special sport, entertainment or other type of visa you can also bring your family, so I guess my religious prejudices are showing!

Back to India though, I still reckon I wouldn't like to be holding either a journalist or missionary visa if the shit were to hit the fan in any way.

capt_mahajan

Just one thought: It is exactly this kind of attempt to get around the rules that gives genuine missionaries a bad name.

And feeds the paranoia of many in India.

machadinha

I don't get it, Kristin. Given that in this world it's an accepted possible profession, why would it not be a category. One might ask why it doesn't fall under regular employment visa stipulations; I suspect because of possible tensions or suspicions concerning the belief systems involved, and hence an attempt to regulate this. Other than that, I don't see how the two really differ. (Whether I agree with today's immigration policies in much of the world is an entirely different matter. You may have guessed I don't.)

btw I agree Capt., but from the sound of it Poiple wasn't out to abuse it, but was rather told by some Indian FRO official that this might be an avenue for him. Which I still doubt. (Not that he was told it, but that it would be so.)

kristinm

I know - I was wondering why it is in with the special categories sportspeople, actors, people having medical treatment etc etc..Why not just a normal working visa? You're right, immigration policies today are just a can of hideous ugly worms!

capt_mahajan

Didn't mean to imply he was out to abuse it, but it is certainly an option being considered, else why this thread?

machadinha

Because, apparently, an Indian FRO official told him, or advised him even, that it was an option (or even the best option) for him to consider. I guess.

I don't really get the apparent nervousness surrounding this thread. It's just someone asking about an existing regulation, after having been apparently informed upon his civil enquiries with the appropriate officials that this might be suitable for him.

To quote Poiple from earlier up above again:

I know (esp. Christian, but I can think of some other religions) missionary activities in India are a touchy subject, but it seems like it's the existing visa offered by the Indian government itself that's being asked about (and after enquiring with the appropriate division), not the missionary bit of it, and which may be something of a misnomer anyway. Again, I'm happy to be proven wrong, but from what I've seen so far the visa is meant for anything but to facilitate missionary activities.

capt_mahajan

Err, not to put too fine a point on it, but doesn't missionary imply missionary?

And I would display the same nervousness at rule bending if the FRRO had said 'student visa' instead.

machadinha

Exactly. So if someone had come in here asking well I've been informed by the FRO I should get a student visa to be able to work here, we might likewise try to advise them of what we think are the ins and outs of it, to the best of our knowledge. Or that maybe they were advised wrongly, or they should look into it some more.

As for that name "missionary visa," maybe it should be termed the "no-missionaries visa," or the "religious workers visa" or something, what do I know. Anyway, it's not those evil religious workers who offer it. It's the Indian government that does. And if and as long as it does, there's nothing intrinsically nefarious in asking about it.

By now, I'd dearly like to hear from someone who does know how the visa works. And, more importantly and the heart of the question here: Whether it applies to secular charitable workers. Like I've said several times now, I suspect not, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.