Indian gypsies -what do you know

asucka · Apr 27th, 2005, 23:09

Hi! I have been reading the forum for the whole time I am out and India and waiting for the next trip and what made me register is a question. What do you know about Indian gypsies. When I saw some around Amritsar the locals told me these were the Adivasi. But "Adivasi" also refers to some tribes that live in the woods or whatever... Iand the group I mentioned is something different. Or what? I am confused.

Merchant · Apr 27th, 2005, 23:31

Popular lore suggests that the Roma gypsies of Europe are descended from the people of Rajasthan. Yes, Adivasi refers to tribals, but that doesn't mean they are wood folk--just members of a group that is outcast but ethnically distinct and protected (theoretically) by the government.

I think in practice, gypsy in India refers to the itinerant Rajasthani families who live out of a cart and perform at weddings, as musicians and dancers, and on the streets. They are poor tribal people, and the fact that they wander just adds to the gypsy mystique.

beach · Apr 27th, 2005, 23:35

I do not know much about them. Mostly the type of people you have seen are 'Lambanis'. Their attire make them noticeable. They are a wandering race,,but with an extremely colourful way of life. The jewlleries and costumes are attractive. The mainly live by selling these kinds of things at street sides and bazars. People buy these for decorating drawing rooms etc.

'Adivasis' are triabl people. Mostly these are not wandering races as their way of life is mostly attached to the nature sarrounding them(like forest, ricer, sea etc). Adi-vasi means those lived in 'those' ages

Adi= old, begining,...
Vasi= Habitant, resident,...

BTW welcome to (the front stage of) Indiamike

asucka · Apr 27th, 2005, 23:48

Thanks for your replies. The people I have seen did look like the "travelling Rajastan families" you have told about. It is interesting that they do look rather similar to the Roma gypsies I have seen in Russia and definitely similar to the "tajik gypsies" that come to Russia as refugees from the Central Asia. I wonder what is it said about the origin of the Rajastani gypsies and what are their gods. Are they similar to the gods of the general population? The "tajik gypsies"are supposed to be the zoroastric tribes that did not accept Islam.

Merchant · Apr 27th, 2005, 23:57

Gypsy history is fascinating, fraught with lots of speculation, falsehood, and ethno-political frumpery. I don't know if anyone has categorically determined if all the people spread throughout Europe, Central Asia, and the subcontinent who call themselves gypsies are related--especially since the term usually refers to a group of colorful undesirables who resist integration.

But the straight, noble facial features are striking. But are these folks Kurds, Pashtuns, Rajasthanis, Kasmiris, or even Egyptians who found their way to Spain (to which gypsy refers)? No one knows, and the term is bandied about very loosely.

Hyderabadi · Apr 28th, 2005, 00:06

There are many Lambadas in Andhra Pradesh too, mostly in the Telangana region. They still for most parts maintain their own unique culture.

crvlvr · Apr 28th, 2005, 00:12

Quote:

I wonder what is it said about the origin of the Rajastani gypsies and what are their gods. Are they similar to the gods of the general population? The "tajik gypsies"are supposed to be the zoroastric tribes that did not accept Islam

Apprently, by their own admission, gypsies originated from India and migrated out about a 1,000 years ago.

Over time, they have assimilated local religious beliefs and language into their own. the language still has some vague similarity to hindi.

Some Links:

Lambanis (India gypsies): http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/people/lambani.htm
Gypsy History/Timeline: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/timeline.htm

kiwi_razz · Apr 28th, 2005, 13:03

There is a movie which I recall from about 5-10 years ago about the gypsies. I'm pretty sure it had a one word title starting with L.

I never saw it myself but I'm pretty sure that basically what it was was a doco-type movie (in the style of Baraka/Koyaanisqatsi) showing the different types of dance performed by the various gypsy cultures.

If I eventually remember the name I'll post it. Or perhaps someone here knows what I'm talking about and can remember the title.

kiwi_razz · Apr 28th, 2005, 13:14

Okay its called 'Latcho Drom' released 1994.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...21664?v=glance

Amazon doesn't know of its existance on DVD, but a little bit of googling brings up:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=BWD-1139

Quote:

Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com
This majestic, French-made film wishes viewers a "latcho drom"--a safe journey--as it follows the roots of the Rom, traveling people better known as Gypsies. Stunning and evocative, it transcends language and culture, bringing together the best elements of National Geographic-style documentary and music video in a kind of anthropological MTV. Using only music and image, without any steady characters or plot, award-winning director Tony Gatlif (himself of Rom descent) tells a compelling story of Rom migrations from Northern India to Europe and the rest of the world. Beginning with a gathering of lavishly dressed nomads singing across the harsh deserts of Rajasthan, viewers are transported through the lush oases of Egypt into the ghettoes of Turkey, from the muddy lanes of Eastern Europe through lush French fields to the windswept coastal cities of Spain. Every step of the way, there are hypnotic reminders of the harshness and beauty of the Rom lifestyle: the rhythms of labor pounding into vibrant dance, the songs of Turkish flower sellers merging with the plaintive political satires of a gray-haired Romanian violinist. Music is everywhere--children barely able to walk dance alongside great-grandmothers--and covers all styles and subjects--from the wintry strains of an Auschwitz lament to a flamenco devotional in a Spanish shrine to a festive Dixieland number that borrows as much from New Orleans as from northern India. And wordless stories abound, told in the smiles of strangers waiting for a train or in the frowns of rifle-toting farmers come to evict travelers from their land.

machadinha · Apr 28th, 2005, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_razz

Okay its called 'Latcho Drom' released 1994.

The maker, Tony Gatlif, has done a number of films on gypsy life which are all worth checking out. See http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0309697/

The above pretty much sums it up. Today the gypsies (Roma or Sinti) are generally believed to have originated in Rajasthan, but no one knows for sure (Sinti is actually thought to refer to Sindh). There are theories that they migrated through Egypt or originated there, although the designation "gitano" may simply refer to "Egypt" as being from the "exotic east". Flamenco dance exhibits some striking similarities to Indian dancing in its postures esp. of the hands, but it may be circumstancial, I don't know if this has been studied, you'd expect it would be. Anyway flamenco only developed a couple of hundred years ago, although based on older folk styles no doubt. The music doesn't bear much resemblance to Rajasthani folk music at least to my ear.

"Adivasi" is a general name for any of the numerous tribal people of India ("tribal" generally meaning non-Aryan and often non-Dravidian, and outside of the general Hindu society and caste system). The name, generally translated as "the original people" in keeping with Beach's explanation, was assigned by Gandhi I think as a honorific title as part of his efforts towards their emancipation.

nb See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adivasi

Ikuru · Apr 28th, 2005, 15:23

There is allot of Gypsys in Goa (I think that what they are called), selling stuff on the beach. another name is Lamani i think.

kewl looks...

check the pic to the right, amazing kewl/good looks....

Hippo · May 5th, 2005, 15:56

Indian gypsies are descendants of Punjabi royalty and their subjects that were exiled to Hindu Khush mountains (Afghanistan) in 10th century by muslim rulers. Hindu Khush means 'Hindu killer'. These people stood up against Islamic tyranny and paid the price for it. The rest is history.

Apr 27th, 2005, 23:09	#1
asucka Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Moscow Posts: 32	Indian gypsies -what do you know Hi! I have been reading the forum for the whole time I am out and India and waiting for the next trip and what made me register is a question. What do you know about Indian gypsies. When I saw some around Amritsar the locals told me these were the Adivasi. But "Adivasi" also refers to some tribes that live in the woods or whatever... Iand the group I mentioned is something different. Or what? I am confused.

Apr 27th, 2005, 23:48	#4
asucka Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Moscow Posts: 32	thank you Thanks for your replies. The people I have seen did look like the "travelling Rajastan families" you have told about. It is interesting that they do look rather similar to the Roma gypsies I have seen in Russia and definitely similar to the "tajik gypsies" that come to Russia as refugees from the Central Asia. I wonder what is it said about the origin of the Rajastani gypsies and what are their gods. Are they similar to the gods of the general population? The "tajik gypsies"are supposed to be the zoroastric tribes that did not accept Islam.

Apr 28th, 2005, 15:23	#11
Ikuru the only "end" is "you" Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: infront of the screen Posts: 1,913	There is allot of Gypsys in Goa (I think that what they are called), selling stuff on the beach. another name is Lamani i think. kewl looks... check the pic to the right, amazing kewl/good looks.... Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.ikuru.se My art. Last edited by Ikuru : May 5th, 2005 at 16:58.

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Apr 27th, 2005, 23:31	#2
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,096	Popular lore suggests that the Roma gypsies of Europe are descended from the people of Rajasthan. Yes, Adivasi refers to tribals, but that doesn't mean they are wood folk--just members of a group that is outcast but ethnically distinct and protected (theoretically) by the government. I think in practice, gypsy in India refers to the itinerant Rajasthani families who live out of a cart and perform at weddings, as musicians and dancers, and on the streets. They are poor tribal people, and the fact that they wander just adds to the gypsy mystique.

Apr 27th, 2005, 23:35	#3
beach Lost in translation Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: India ! Posts: 2,234	I do not know much about them. Mostly the type of people you have seen are 'Lambanis'. Their attire make them noticeable. They are a wandering race,,but with an extremely colourful way of life. The jewlleries and costumes are attractive. The mainly live by selling these kinds of things at street sides and bazars. People buy these for decorating drawing rooms etc. 'Adivasis' are triabl people. Mostly these are not wandering races as their way of life is mostly attached to the nature sarrounding them(like forest, ricer, sea etc). Adi-vasi means those lived in 'those' ages Adi= old, begining,... Vasi= Habitant, resident,... BTW welcome to (the front stage of) Indiamike

Apr 27th, 2005, 23:57	#5
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,096	Gypsy history is fascinating, fraught with lots of speculation, falsehood, and ethno-political frumpery. I don't know if anyone has categorically determined if all the people spread throughout Europe, Central Asia, and the subcontinent who call themselves gypsies are related--especially since the term usually refers to a group of colorful undesirables who resist integration. But the straight, noble facial features are striking. But are these folks Kurds, Pashtuns, Rajasthanis, Kasmiris, or even Egyptians who found their way to Spain (to which gypsy refers)? No one knows, and the term is bandied about very loosely.

Apr 28th, 2005, 00:06	#6
Hyderabadi Maha Guru Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: GA,USA. Posts: 1,121	There are many Lambadas in Andhra Pradesh too, mostly in the Telangana region. They still for most parts maintain their own unique culture.

Apr 28th, 2005, 13:03	#8
kiwi_razz Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London Posts: 410	There is a movie which I recall from about 5-10 years ago about the gypsies. I'm pretty sure it had a one word title starting with L. I never saw it myself but I'm pretty sure that basically what it was was a doco-type movie (in the style of Baraka/Koyaanisqatsi) showing the different types of dance performed by the various gypsy cultures. If I eventually remember the name I'll post it. Or perhaps someone here knows what I'm talking about and can remember the title.

May 5th, 2005, 15:56	#12
Hippo Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: India Posts: 12	Indian gypsies are descendants of Punjabi royalty and their subjects that were exiled to Hindu Khush mountains (Afghanistan) in 10th century by muslim rulers. Hindu Khush means 'Hindu killer'. These people stood up against Islamic tyranny and paid the price for it. The rest is history.

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