Indian diaspora in the UK

brishti

i'd have been pulverized for my comment! and rightly so - cap'n aint here and dd - ah well, the guy's a gent
i meant to say something else - but chuck it.

gotto keep away from these posts - must keep away... we're an arrogant emotive lot in the east

back to chillies - films - books



:brishti

snowcrab

Many people from different parts of Great Britain, when they come to visit Canada and find in our country of immigrants that people here still identify with their ancestral roots find it distasteful. They do not want to hear someone say for instance, "my people are Scottish". As far as Scots are concerned five generations in another country and you are not Scottish anymore, you are Canadian. The attitude is, don't try to claim any sort of kinship with us, it can be pretty cold. It's a little shocking when first encountered.

I noticed something similar in India. NRI's are also foreigners in India, especially if their family has been living in some place else for three generations or more. Perhaps the knowledge that they would not be accepted as real kin in India anymore is good motivation to just let go of the past and move on into the future.

Since the Jewish culture has not had a homeland for millenia there has never been anyone back in "the old country" to reject them.

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http://indibliss.blogspot.com/

The_Londoner

Actually I disagree few points that have been made. I am of an Indian origin, and very proud of my "mother land". I am one of luckier ones who can read and write my mother tongue. However, I am not sure why British Indians should know the history of India. In the end they are British. And they are very proud of their Indian roots. I do agree, unfortunately more and more are loosing their mother tongue, but i feel they are not loosing their identity of their roots, in fact it's opposite, things like UK Bangra, British Indian beats and Bollywood scenes are thriving and are bringing young Asians together. I have few Jewish friends and talking to them I realise that may be Indian community is heading the same way. Jewish community has been very strong for hundreds of years, but it's only small percentage of young Jews speak their language, however, they are well reintegrated in British society and greatly connected with their culture. As time go by I feel Asians will not loose their identity, nor their roots and religion, however, high percentage of young Asians will loose their mother tongue. Perhaps we will go the same way as West Indies Asian, Trinidadians, they still have their roots, their cultures, their religious festivals, their identity, but unfortunately, mother tongue is lost.

Dilliwala

Why, thank you! That's the nicest thing any IMer's said to me, ever.
(I presume u meant me as "the guy". Even if yu didn't, I'm STILL presuming . Not that I'm suggesting the Capt isn't a gent, he is).

So, seen any good films on Chile lately?


P.S. Don't know why yu (Nick, please note compromise on spelling!) would think I'd think very differently re your previous post. Most of it I happen to agree with. Being a post-47 model myself (and post-62, as can be seen in the Tibet thread).
But it's useful to know one's history, helps in understanding some situations.



I thought I'd seen all the episodes of GGM in 2000, but I don't remember this sketch. Thanks!
BTW, I rate GGM as the finest comedy to have left the shores of Britain after Yes Minister/Yes PM.
(Yu understand we don't get to see all of Brit comedy here, so my statement can be seen as 'incomplete', but even so....)
Another of my faves is when St. John, Vanessa, and the other 2 (u know the one I mean) want to apply for the Tory party membership and look absolutely horrified when the receptionist tells them that they "welcome people of all races, backgrounds, etc". Hilarious.
As a comedy team these guys were simply brilliant.

More OT, Sanjeev Bhaskar's on every week on Discovery right now, with his 'around India' series.

Nick-H

For you guys, 1947 is something that was brought about by your parents and grandparents. I'm pretty dim on WW2 history, but I still grew up aware of the fact that it was something my parents' generation had just done, and my grandparents WW1.

India has heroes that suffered and struggled for independence. It also has heroes that stood up to Idira Gandhi during the 'emergency', which is not so long ago.

I'm on a soap box here, and also off topic, but perhaps if India tho0ugh more about its heroes, it would elect better politicians in the present day.

Ow! Ouchhhh!

---just got knocked off the soapbox!

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Just one member of the IndiaMike Mod Team

Kingstonian

Interesting to read what you say, Londoner.
Only thing I'd say, maybe drifting off topic slightly, is that which ever ways folk go, they won't be the same ways as those of African heritage from the Caribbean/Americas. It is not the current generations, but their ancestors (those who survived, that is) who first lost their mother tongues a couple of hundred years ago or so (more for some, less for some) when the British/Europeans/other Africans seized them, traded them as slaves and shipped them to the Americas (one-way tickets only). I guess the struggle to hold onto roots/culture/identity takes different paths, but maybe the struggle remains the same.

brishti

nick: yes - 1947 and the bloody partition is what my parents went through. i am from bengal... trust me, i know!
india at the time had one common enemy, one goal, one face.
prejudices rose and were nurtured due to the partition... and passed on in a conscious/subconscious level.
if we do not question them prejudices and go with the flow [which is... oh so much easier], we are in deep sh*t.

today, the enemy is within - that much tougher, in every aspect.
the greatness of india lies in her diversity, that is her greatest strength.
that diversity can easily become her singlemost weakness... as that is one feature that is being constantly manipulated with.
it is as important if not more - to know india as 'she' is today - otherwise 'she' just becomes a concept -
and that is where i am in disagreement with mr rush. what is his intertretation of them 'indian ways'.
is he even aware of the carnage that has been taking place - emergency, ayodhya, godhra, nandigram - THAT is india today.

todays indian hero - is the man on the street, the workforce.
illiterate, unkempt, folks who use the fields as their loo - they voted the bjp out - whilst across the pond ...




:brishti

dd: post '62???!!!

Nick-H

Powerful stuff, and it shows how much you do care about being Indian.





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karuna

From my (white, British) perspective the past couple of years has been like a closed book opening. My consciousness about Partition and Indian history in general has been thoroughly raised.

I've started to refer to Partition as the "elephant in the room" in the UK. It was this huge, momentous event within living memory, and we were deeply involved with and yet it does not feature on our national radar. It's not on our school curriculum (as far as I know). It's not talked about.

Sanjeev Bhaskar in his India series Dilliwalla mentions above says something to the effect of- when the old Sikh man in the corner shop hands you your newspaper, it was Partition that brought him here- he made a life-changing journey with his family, coming halfway across the world to escape the bloodshed.
I certainly never considered that before. Partition is right up in my face almost daily.

Partition looms large still, it's just that it's shadow is so huge it covers everything, so you can't see that you're in shadow. If you see what I mean. I could say the same about world war 2 and the UK. What does that war mean to me, born decades after its end? Nothing. But we only just repaid our war debt. The European Union was formed out of that war, principally to ensure it would never happen again. The ripple effect is huge, but we don't notice it.

brishti

hey karuna - no need for the "(white, British) perspective" introduction
the reason i keep reiterating i'm an indian - is primarily for indians so they're aware, i am a voice from within the land.

honestly - i think its a global concern - tolerance and respect the rights of an individual - whoever, wherever they maybe.
that is the one big universal need, especially today - and that transcends borders, really needs no country.

my parents faced a bloody partition - and then came the bengal famine. [this is the bengal partition - same time as the punjab]
bloodshed, loss of home, giving a face to the 'enemy' forever ... plenty to keep nurturing the hatred for generations to come.

pointing fingers - politicians - governments - you can keep raving and ranting about them till the cows come home and go out again.
we have to take on the onus as individuals, to change/better the situation - no matter how minuscule/microscopic the effort may be.
it is upto each individual - which makes the collective

i HAVE to get off this soapbox.



:brishti

nick: i am [shucks, what can i say]... thank you
and i am lighting up after this - sheesh too much energy - no more

nayan

dont wish to nitpick..... but the famine came earlier..... then came the partition.

brishti

yup nayan i stand corrected - heck... nitpluck away!!!
my sense of history is absolutely at best - i do admit
its the aftermath that i am more aware of.




:brishti

Dilliwala

Can't elect dead heroes.


Yes, Tibet thread, remember? India, China, attacked, 1962? Kalimpong hasn't been the same since, to give it an East Himalayan perspective.

brishti

what i meant was - you're a post '62-er???



:brishti

[you just gotto have to point out flaws in what i've written dd - i cannot believe you dont!!!]

Dilliwala

OH!
I mean, huh? Why wudn't I be?
Do I really sound SENIOR (altho I do feel senile sometimes ) ? Yikes! (Where's the time-to-retire icon?)
Think I shud stay off the soap-box myself, and lie in it instead.

Why wud I want to find flaws in what's actually a personal perspective? As u have described it, it's very true for yu based on the events and experiences in your background and life. I'm sure that basic principle holds good for others as well.
In any case, like I said I agree with most of it, which then leaves room for the rest as my perspective.

The only flaw was in the fact of the famine and partition dates, which I was hesitant to point out in the face of an otherwise great post - relieved that nayan did it instead.