Gay sex a crime in India!

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#1 Dec 11th, 2013, 11:51
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  • happyhippy is offline
#1
Its back to the dark ages for homosexuals in India! The Supreme Court sets aside the Delhi high courts verdict and declares homosexuality illegal, and it is punishable under section 377 of the Indian Penal Code! A sad day for the LGBT community in India! There were no laws against homosexuality in pre-colonial India!
Last edited by happyhippy; Dec 11th, 2013 at 19:33..
#2 Dec 11th, 2013, 13:11
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I understand that it always takes time for societies to transition from the Dark Ages to enlightenment. I don't understand why people can't just accept people for who they were born as rather than trying to force their own prejudices on society as a whole. If someone is against homosexuality, then don't be a homosexual and let those who are gay be gay in peace.
#3 Dec 11th, 2013, 14:44
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I've no idea of the correct percentages, but I'd estimate maybe 15% of men are homosexual, maybe 7-8% of women are lesbian, and I repeat, I've no idea of the real numbers.

India is fast approaching 9 women for every 10 men.

Accepting homosexuality may delay by a couple of generations the catastrophe that will engulf India eventually.
#4 Dec 11th, 2013, 15:07
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I'm a bit confused, Steven. Do you mean that if homosexuality is not accepted, then homosexual people will go ahead with heterosexual stuff and breed? I don't think that makes sense.

I wonder... on what basis has the supreme court made this judgement? It could be on account of being a bunch of old prejudiced guys who feel the need to tell others what they may or may not do with their own bodies, or it might be something very different, such as saying that the Delhi High Court did not have the right, in law, to set aside the existing law, which should be done by parliament.

If it is a matter of constitution and law, then the judges must find according to constitution and law --- and not according to what is right or wrong! Judges, even those of the Supreme Court, are not very free to do what they want.
#5 Dec 11th, 2013, 15:33
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Quote:
If it is a matter of constitution and law, then the judges must find according to constitution and law --- and not according to what is right or wrong! Judges, even those of the Supreme Court, are not very free to do what they want.
Even Supreme Court judges are not free to do what they want..they can ONLY go by the laws in the Indian Penal Code. As they have rightly mentioned in their judgement today, they can only follow Article 377 in which homosexuality is a crime. They also mentioned that if the Indian Government wanted, they could remove that provision through Parliament.
To make it clearer, if rape is a crime under existing IPC laws, Supreme Court judges cannot decide that rape is not a crime.
In this case, Supreme Court was absolutely correct in their judgement.

The Government will never scrap Article 377 through Parliament because that will ruffle many feathers including religious groups.
#6 Dec 11th, 2013, 15:36
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three days ago, the right honourable finance minister made this speech somewhere. Assuming the write-up is a word for word copy of the original speech, and reading between the lines, it is very clear why the decision is the way it is.

The issue on hand is not important (in a larger context), the boundaries between the various branches of the government are.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/27093263.cms
#7 Dec 11th, 2013, 15:38
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#7
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they can only follow Article 377
So my surmise was right. SImply a matter of law, which they do not (and the Delhi Court did not) have the right to change.

Quote:
There were no laws against homosexuality in pre-colonial India!
Britain, exporting prejudice and prudery for hundreds of years!

Homosexual acts were a crime in UK until, what, 1960-something?
#8 Dec 11th, 2013, 16:03
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#8
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post I'm a bit confused, Steven. Do you mean that if homosexuality is not accepted, then homosexual people will go ahead with heterosexual stuff and breed? I don't think that makes sense.
10% of men will never marry.

If India accepted homosexuality, then 15% of men and 7-8% of women would be in same sex relationships, and the extra 7-8% of men involved in those relationships would mean they're not marrying a woman, leaving extra women for heterosexual man.

As I said earlier, the percentages are just guesses, as is my belief that twice as many men as women may be homosexual, it's based on very limited experience (wrong word perhaps).

The theory is simplistic, and it could take generations before homosexuality in India is viewed in the same way as in the UK (for example).

But it's absolutely crazy to have a situation where 1 in 10 men will never marry, and of the 9 that do marry, one or 2 may be homosexual and married because of peer pressure.
#9 Dec 11th, 2013, 16:08
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#9
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Originally Posted by steven_ber View Post But it's absolutely crazy ...
why? I am genuinely curious as to why you think that situation is crazy, even if we accept your numbers as fact.

also, i fail to understand if the first line of your post (10% will never marry).Are you saying that would be true because of the policy of discrimination, or that that is what you think currently happens.

perhaps you are thinking of something when you say in your older post "catastrophe that will engulf india". What kind?
#10 Dec 11th, 2013, 16:10
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#10
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Originally Posted by Nick-H View Post So my surmise was right. SImply a matter of law, which they do not (and the Delhi Court did not) have the right to change.
Doesn't the Indian constitution have any guarantees of equal rights for all?

I live in California. The courts here ruled that homosexual couples have the same right to marry their partners as heterosexual couples because anything less would make homosexuals less equal under the law. They struck down an amendment to the California state constitution which prohibited same-sex marriage.
#11 Dec 11th, 2013, 16:13
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#11
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Originally Posted by steven_ber View Post
But it's absolutely crazy to have a situation where 1 in 10 men will never marry, and of the 9 that do marry, one or 2 may be homosexual and married because of peer pressure.
Perhaps as a solution to the shortage of women compared to men they should allow women to have two husbands.
#12 Dec 11th, 2013, 17:02
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India is fast approaching 9 females for every 10 males, this is fact, in many states there's already less than 8.8 females to every 10 males.

Marriage for their children is the aim of every parent, and this must put enormous pressure on the children as they approach adulthood.

If a man knows he's homosexual, does he tell his parents, does he explain why he doesn't want to marry, or does he give in to the pressure and marry?

If society doesn't accept homosexuality, it just puts even more pressure on homosexual men (and women) to marry.

9 women for 10 men, If homosexual men were taken out, it would be a lot closer to 10 women for 10 men.

If someone understands what I'm saying and can think of a better way to explain, please do.
#13 Dec 11th, 2013, 17:33
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#13
What a wonderful platform for all religions to have come together against the high court ruling! I can not even comprehend what gay people might be going through right now, being branded criminals for nothing...if this is not society of goons then what is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by funny_in View Post As they have rightly mentioned in their judgement today, they can only follow Article 377 in which homosexuality is a crime.
SC could and must at least have advised the government to change the law, not something new, and specially when it is contradictory and against many provisions of the constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_ber View Post 9 women for 10 men, If homosexual men were taken out, it would be a lot closer to 10 women for 10 men.
What about lesbians then, do they not even out gay men
If you find my posts confrontationist, please bear, I am an old frustrated guy who has nothing better to do than sit on rocking chair and curse the world whole day
#14 Dec 11th, 2013, 18:37
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#14

Its Bad to be Gay............. again!

For those who it may concern...........

India has reinstated the law making homosexuality illegal, so be careful.




Mod Note : Two threads on the same topic have been merged
#15 Dec 11th, 2013, 18:44
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#15
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Originally Posted by jituyadav View Post SC could and must at least have advised the government to change the law, not something new, and specially when it is contradictory and against many provisions of the constitution.
SC has indeed mentioned in their judgement that the Government can remove Article 377 through Parliament.
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