Fund-less UK national stranded in India

Alan D · Nov 15th, 2004, 16:24

I'm wary of commenting on news stories like this as often the whole story doesn't make it into print. For instance, we don't know if someone from the British High Commission has actually visited this person and assessed his mental condition.

If Mr Marshal really believes that because he disagrees with certain policies of the British Government his life may be in danger, then he has a mental problem and needs treatment. I am no fan of Tony Blair either, but so far I haven't had a knock on the door in the middle of the night.

The British consular officials may also not be very sympathetic as he has already overstayed his Indian visa and served time in jail. I would have thought though, that they are still responsible for repatriating him back to the UK. I very much doubt that the Indian authorities will ever issue him with an Indian visa again.

This incident is the result of an ongoing crackdown by the Kullu Valley police against foreigners who overstay their visas.

park · Nov 15th, 2004, 19:59

Don't count on it any more !! You can just push Blair to the limit by reporting to the news of the world then he might pay your fare to vote labour.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/

goangoangone · Nov 15th, 2004, 20:50

I'll take Bonkin' Boris

over Phoney Bliar

any day

Bonkin' Boris for Prime Minister

park · Nov 15th, 2004, 21:24

Those of you low on funds asked for News of the World phone number, here it is 0800 279 3786 a free phone call !! To make money .
How to exhaust UR money refer to the other Druggies suggestions......

Merchant · Nov 15th, 2004, 21:32

Such derision. You would think that we IndiaMaikkers would have some sympathy for the guy. Who among us (esp. in the US or UK) wouldn't like to be granted political assylum in India?

crvlvr · Nov 15th, 2004, 23:59

Will sympathy really help the stranded guy? Thanks to him, this will only make it more difficult for foreigners to get visas to India.

park · Nov 16th, 2004, 02:37

He should be helped. But Indians don't base their visa decision on odd cases like this, the drug problems are taken seriously in case of foreigners. It's matured democratic country of 1 billion, like any other country where things happen, not a big deal.

Camelot · Nov 16th, 2004, 05:52

i reckon hes in trouble with the brittish authorities or he owes someone a lot of money.

Baldy · Nov 16th, 2004, 05:55

bit of compassion folks ... he sounds as if he is a disturbed young (maybe) erson ...

superfemale · Nov 16th, 2004, 06:17

OK well he may have some sort of undisclosed mental illness now, but at some point he was fully capable of applying for a passport and visa to get there in the first place. Many young men (I know at least 3) develop mental illnesses (that they could have been predisposed to originally) after prolong drug use. I am in no way against the recreational useage of drugs, but I have witnessed it. Signs of depression and schizophrenia become apparent after "bad trips". I am not saying he shouldn't be helped by the UK government, but I think this fellow should take some responsibility for the situation he is in. The discussion of assylum is just so ridiculous, sorry....
You think some family escaping the troubles in Kashmir or Nepal should be displaced because some Brit doesn't like the policies of the Blaire administration. HMMM? don't think so.

monkgonemad · Nov 16th, 2004, 11:49

this lot just make the authorites think thrice about us staying long term -and thats not a good thing for all od us. has nothing to do with compassion.

if he was mentally ill i have no doubt that the brittish govt would fly him out. otherwise, the headline would have read - brittish govt abandons mentally ill man to slums of india. it would be easier to fly him back than take the flack about it.

if the guy wants to stay in india, he needs money and a visa like everyone else.

my hunch is he spent years in the north smoking a hole in his brain -and that is fine. but you must at a bare minimum have a visa and be able to support oneself with funds from outside the country.

steven_ber · Nov 16th, 2004, 21:47

I must be mad for doing this post, but some of the negative replies to this thread (the kind of reply I might have give 10 years ago) have persuaded me to do a reply.

About 7 years ago I was the happiest man alive, I couldn’t have been happier.

How things change.

The reasons are not needed in this post, but 4 years later I left my wife and started on a downward spiral that ended with me refusing to accept a plane ticket home and stuck in a Thai police station.

After my split with my wife I tried to get on with my life, but I couldn’t ‘get over it’, I tried India, it didn’t work.

One day, back in London. I just ‘lost it’; I tried to buy a single to Mumbai, but didn’t have a visa, so I bought a single to Bangkok.

Before I left (knowing I would never return) I trashed everything I had and told a lot of people things I had wanted to say for years, I don’t think any of the things were good, but I didn't care.

I done my night shift and went straight to Heathrow and on to Bangkok; I landed with only money, a passport and my London Underground uniform.

I had a few months of trying to persuade myself to return to England, but knowing that I had no intention of leaving Thailand, in this time, despite having money, I was very unhappy.

I then had my passport and money stolen, left my hotel and started living on the streets, I soon had all my belongings stolen.

Weeks were spent hoping for a cold bottle of water or a decent meal, yet strangely, I felt (emotionally) no differently in this situation than when I’d been sitting on a beach in Ko Phi Phi sipping beer and watching the sunset.

A combination of no money, no home, and a fear of what I would end up doing, forced me to hand myself in for visa overstay.

A friend offered to pay the overstay fine (Rs2000) and pay for my plane ticket home, I refused the help and spent 7 weeks in a Thai police station (still not wanting to go home) for non-payment of the fine, then a week in Immigration Detention Centre before being deported (thanks to my friends plane ticket).

______________________________ ________________

I am one of those people who said "it could never happen to me".

BTW. it is NOT a holiday when you have no money.

BTW. I havn't had drugs in over 20 years.
______________________________ ________________

I have added a letter I sent to the Austrian embassy on my return home that describes the conditions in the prison a little.

The injuries described in the statement are to provide answers to the autopsy, the statement is not as horrific as it could be; I tried to keep it factual rather than emotional.

Quote:

>Mr *****, Austrian Embassy, Bangkok, Thailand.
>
>
>17/11/02 .........My name is Steven ****, I am British, I have just returned from Thailand where I spent some time in the cells of a Police Station for visa overstay, the most horrific thing I witnessed in my time there was the violence, torture and eventual death of an Austrian Citizen.
>
>
>The police cells were extremely overcrowded; my cell measured 4 metres by 4 metres, 2 square metres taken up by a bathroom (toilet/shower). There was an average of 40+ people in my cell, the police cells were run by a group of Thai prisoners who were given the keys to the cells by the police, the police would come in and do a count or name check two or three times a day.
>
>
>I am not sure of the day (14 - 17 /10/2002) the Austrian man came to the police station and still do not know why he was arrested. I think he may have had some psychological problems; he would occasionally start shouting out loudly (although it could be that he was claustrophobic or just scared).
>
>
>He was initially held on his own in a cell used by prisoners for visits (only one night as this cell as with parts of the corridors were used at night by prisoners prepared to pay money to the Thai prisoners for the 'Pleasure' of sleeping there, the police would receive half of the nightly takings), he was then moved to a part of the corridor between the cells where the rubbish was kept, here he was handcuffed to the bars (from this point he was constantly handcuffed).
>
>
>At least twice a day he would start talking loudly/shouting, this would be followed by him being kicked/beaten until he would eventually shut up.
>
>
>I was then moved to another cell where I couldn't see what was happening (although I could hear that the same was continuing, this was later confirmed by a female prisoner who could see what was happening).
>
>
>Dates up until 28/10/02 are not to be relied upon as I had now been in the police cells for 6 weeks without a newspaper and to be honest what was happening to the Austrian at this stage was not as bad as was happening to a lot of the Cambodians/Vietnamese in our cell many times a day.
>
>
>About the night of Wednesday 23rd October a friend and I paid 100 Baht each to sleep in the corridor (instead of the grossly overcrowded cell), the Thai prisoners were practising there violence on the (still handcuffed) Austrian, (although the Thais often done this to the Cambodians/Vietnamese, this was only just starting to happen to a couple of Europeans) the Thais were trying to 'impress' the girls, after they had got the Austrian to his knees by kicking and elbowing him in the head they would then see who could kick him the hardest (laughing all the time, by now the Thais were regularly taking 'ya-ba' at night, (drugs)), they would also jump up and land on the Austrian with all their weight on there elbow and there elbow directed into the centre of his back, one Thai man, I am told also burned him a couple of times on the chest/stomach with a cigarette, this went on for about 60 - 70 minutes until the Austrian couldn't move.
>
>
>On Friday 25/10/02 the Austrian man was brought to my cell, then, after his usual beating he was taken to the bathroom (this cell had no water for drinking/toilet/shower so plastic bottles were used, most got knocked over and there was about 15 - 20 mm of urine on the 'bathroom' floor), once in the bathroom his left wrist was tied to the bars with a kind of leather strap (about 12 mm thick) at a height that prevented him from sitting.
>
>
>Sometime later I fell asleep, I woke in the morning and noticed the Austrian was asleep (standing up), about 5 minutes later he slumped down, I immediately noticed his right wrist was tied to the bars with string in such a way that his arms would have been crossed in front of his head, about 5 - 7 seconds later the string snapped and he fell to his knees (his left wrist still tied), I was then moved to another cell.
>
>
>I am sure the next night I heard him shouting again.
>
>
>On Sunday night/Monday morning at 00:10 one of the Thai prisoners was talking to a the duty police officer (who was on the other side of the bars outside the jail area) when another Thai prisoner came to them and informed them they had a dead body, some Thais brought the body around to where the policeman could see it and left the body on the floor next to one of the girls cells, the police officer never came in to check the body.
>
>
>At 01:35 the policeman and a police photographer came inside the jail, they went to take a photo of the corridor where the Austrian had been held most of the time but decided against it, they then took a photo of the cell I was in.
>
>
>At 01:55 a doctor came into the cells to check on the body, and left with the body at 02:00.
>
>
>I left the police station at about midday on the 31/10/02 and no policeman or photographer had been to the cell where the Austrian man had died or spoke to any of the foreigners there.
>
>
>I hope this helps answer some questions that may have arisen from the autopsy, I am prepared to give evidence at a trial although I don't think there will be enough evidence to convict any individuals as there were so many involved, however, if an embassy or a large organisation were to become involved there may be a small chance that police officers could be forced to take charge of the cells and at least bring some accountability.
>
>
>Could you please keep me informed as to the results of the autopsy and any developments in the investigation, please e-mail at ******** if I can be of any help.
>
>
>Looking forward to your reply.
>
>
>Copies to: - Amnesty International (Bangkok), Austrian Embassies in United Kingdom and Austria, various prisoners volunteer groups, P (an Austrian also pursuing the case).
-------------------------------------------------------------

pooch · Nov 16th, 2004, 23:47

I think most prejudice here heaped on Marshal stems from the fact this happened in Kullu and not Calcutta or somewhere in Kerala for eg.

Can Indian prisons get as bad as Thai ones ?

crvlvr · Nov 17th, 2004, 01:24

Indian prisons may be worse. The book Shantaram has some great descriptions. Very similar to Steven_ber's experience.

goangoangone · Nov 17th, 2004, 14:13

Sad experience Steven. I hope you're getting over it. Good luck.

Nov 15th, 2004, 19:59	#17
park Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LONDON UK Posts: 20	I'll blow my money, honey Blair will repatriate me ! Don't count on it any more !! You can just push Blair to the limit by reporting to the news of the world then he might pay your fare to vote labour. http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/

Nov 15th, 2004, 20:50	#18
goangoangone Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Goa Posts: 1,456	I'll take Bonkin' Boris over Phoney Bliar any day Bonkin' Boris for Prime Minister __________________ GoanGoan......here

Nov 15th, 2004, 21:24	#19
park Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LONDON UK Posts: 20	I'll blow my money, honey Blair will repatriate me ! Those of you low on funds asked for News of the World phone number, here it is 0800 279 3786 a free phone call !! To make money . How to exhaust UR money refer to the other Druggies suggestions......

Nov 16th, 2004, 06:17	#25
superfemale Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: canada Posts: 21	does he or doesn't he? OK well he may have some sort of undisclosed mental illness now, but at some point he was fully capable of applying for a passport and visa to get there in the first place. Many young men (I know at least 3) develop mental illnesses (that they could have been predisposed to originally) after prolong drug use. I am in no way against the recreational useage of drugs, but I have witnessed it. Signs of depression and schizophrenia become apparent after "bad trips". I am not saying he shouldn't be helped by the UK government, but I think this fellow should take some responsibility for the situation he is in. The discussion of assylum is just so ridiculous, sorry.... You think some family escaping the troubles in Kashmir or Nepal should be displaced because some Brit doesn't like the policies of the Blaire administration. HMMM? don't think so.

Nov 16th, 2004, 11:49	#26
monkgonemad Aimless Drifter, Shiftless Idler, Useless Waster Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: SoEastAsia/AsiaSubCont Posts: 416	no quarter - this lot just make the authorites think thrice about us staying long term -and thats not a good thing for all od us. has nothing to do with compassion. if he was mentally ill i have no doubt that the brittish govt would fly him out. otherwise, the headline would have read - brittish govt abandons mentally ill man to slums of india. it would be easier to fly him back than take the flack about it. if the guy wants to stay in india, he needs money and a visa like everyone else. my hunch is he spent years in the north smoking a hole in his brain -and that is fine. but you must at a bare minimum have a visa and be able to support oneself with funds from outside the country.

Nov 15th, 2004, 16:24	#16
Alan D Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Southampton UK Posts: 1,869	I'm wary of commenting on news stories like this as often the whole story doesn't make it into print. For instance, we don't know if someone from the British High Commission has actually visited this person and assessed his mental condition. If Mr Marshal really believes that because he disagrees with certain policies of the British Government his life may be in danger, then he has a mental problem and needs treatment. I am no fan of Tony Blair either, but so far I haven't had a knock on the door in the middle of the night. The British consular officials may also not be very sympathetic as he has already overstayed his Indian visa and served time in jail. I would have thought though, that they are still responsible for repatriating him back to the UK. I very much doubt that the Indian authorities will ever issue him with an Indian visa again. This incident is the result of an ongoing crackdown by the Kullu Valley police against foreigners who overstay their visas.

Nov 15th, 2004, 21:32	#20
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,071	Such derision. You would think that we IndiaMaikkers would have some sympathy for the guy. Who among us (esp. in the US or UK) wouldn't like to be granted political assylum in India?

Nov 15th, 2004, 23:59	#21
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,303	Will sympathy really help the stranded guy? Thanks to him, this will only make it more difficult for foreigners to get visas to India.

Nov 16th, 2004, 02:37	#22
park Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LONDON UK Posts: 20	He should be helped. But Indians don't base their visa decision on odd cases like this, the drug problems are taken seriously in case of foreigners. It's matured democratic country of 1 billion, like any other country where things happen, not a big deal.

Nov 16th, 2004, 05:52	#23
Camelot Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 37	i reckon hes in trouble with the brittish authorities or he owes someone a lot of money.

Nov 16th, 2004, 05:55	#24
Baldy gotta pee ... Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Brisbane Posts: 187	bit of compassion folks ... he sounds as if he is a disturbed young (maybe) erson ...

Nov 16th, 2004, 23:47	#28
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Middle East <---->India Posts: 384	I think most prejudice here heaped on Marshal stems from the fact this happened in Kullu and not Calcutta or somewhere in Kerala for eg. Can Indian prisons get as bad as Thai ones ?

Nov 17th, 2004, 01:24	#29
crvlvr Guru Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hollywood Posts: 4,303	Indian prisons may be worse. The book Shantaram has some great descriptions. Very similar to Steven_ber's experience.

Nov 17th, 2004, 14:13	#30
goangoangone Maha Guru Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Goa Posts: 1,456	Sad experience Steven. I hope you're getting over it. Good luck.

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