Feel So Guilty!

Darcy_A · Oct 29th, 2009, 00:52

Hi, I am going to India in January, and I feel so guilty about it! I am becoming increasingly aware of and sensitive to the poverty and suffering in the world, and instead of dedicating myself to doing something about it I am planning a trip which could feed who knows how many starving children. I can rationalize it to myself as much as I want but it is ridiculously selfish. I want to go to India so badly and I already have my plane ticket and don't think I will back out, but I feel like a bad person. I feel like I am putting my principles on hold till I get back, and I don't know how to reconcile it. Does anyone else ever feel like this?

Nick-H · Oct 29th, 2009, 01:08

This may not be the kind of answer you expect, but...

I think you are not becoming increasingly aware of poverty and suffering in India --- because you have not been here yet. You have not seen how people live in India.

The rest of what you say also makes little sense: you say you feel guilty about your trip --- but do you feel guilty about every luxury, or even non-essential, you consume at home? It makes no sense to feel guilty about your trip.

You say you could be doing something --- do you not think that your trip will be doing something? Unless you are spending the entire in time in luxury hotels owned, not by Indian capital, but by multi-national companies, everything that you do here will contribute something.

So just forget all that --- enjoy your trip and learn from it.

(Hey... I am trying to make you feel better --- even if it doesn't seem like it

)

Oh, and I have seen some poverty in my years here, although not the worst of it, but I have Never seen a starving child. I'm almost tempted to say, Wrong Continent --- except I am aware, third-hand, that there is grinding and abject poverty in some of the less fertile farming areas of India.

Darcy_A · Oct 29th, 2009, 01:53

Hi Nick,
I was not sure what kind of answer to expect, but I know I did not expect anyone would be able to help me feel better. Yet you helped a lot, thank you!

When I said I was becoming increasingly aware of poverty and suffering I did not mean India in particular. But I guess what I should have said is "I have been feeling increasingly sad and upset" not increasingly aware.

No in that perspective it doesn't make as much sense to feel guilty about my trip. But I do feel guilty in general about the relative luxury I have as a lower middle class American. I feel particularly guilty about this trip because it's something I've worked and saved for for over a year and a half, and I feel selfish for putting all my energy and money into something that for the most part benefits only me. Especially because in the last couple years I have felt an increasing urge to step out of my bubble of perceived entitlement and contribute to the betterment of our world.
But yeah, I guess going to India is a good way to step outside of one's bubble, and you're right that I will be contributing to the local economy in a small way.
But the thing that's plaguing my conscience is that right now I have more money saved than I've ever had, and I have the power to give it all to someone (or many someones) who desperately need it but I won't.

But anyway, your response did help me feel a bit better.

Nick-H · Oct 29th, 2009, 02:11

good! First time I ever made someone feel better with a rant

Hey, just think of the scope for guilt that there is in being middle-class and comfortable in India! And I do not live in some isolated and protected wealthy area.

Looks like you could use your trip, perhaps, as a fact finding tour to check out things that you could be doing, or could be contributing to. Not much I can offer constructively on this one --- you could check out NGOs that do stuff like fund education, With just a few hundred rupees you can send a child to school. It costs substantially more to, for instance, pay the fees for a teenager to qualify as a nurse, but... you say you're feeling rich

.

I hasten to add that I don;t know these things because I am in the business --- but my wife is. Informally, no organisation, no expenses, and certainly no profit, she passes on money from people who have it, to pay for school fees.

Oh... this is not touting!

She has a group of people that she works with and on behalf of. She administrates; I do the photocopying!

federica · Oct 29th, 2009, 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy_A

Especially because in the last couple years I have felt an increasing urge to step out of my bubble of perceived entitlement and contribute to the betterment of our world.
But yeah, I guess going to India is a good way to step outside of one's bubble.

Exactly

And as you sound like a sensitive person, India will change you, for sure. Help isn't all about donating money. It's more about mutual understanding, making friends, changing your general mindset and lifestyle. Seeing people as partners not as strangers. If all people would do that, there would be less poverty in this world. Not sure if I could express it in the right way, hope you understand what I mean.

It won't help anybody if you're feeling guilty now. Go to India, enjoy, discover it with open eyes and an open heart. You'll see what you can do to make this world a little better.

I got this "feeling miserable" when I was back home after one year in India. Then I started working honorary in a fair trade shop in my town, and it made me feel better.

capt_mahajan · Oct 29th, 2009, 08:48

Darcy, can't explain why, but India needs tourists like you, and not for the money. Though it might upset you to see some of the stuff face to face.

Nick, I will disagree with you on 'never have seen a starving child' in another thread. You just didn't know it when you saw it

wonderwomanusa · Oct 29th, 2009, 09:57

So, if you're aware of poverty and suffering, what do you do about it, while you're getting ready to go to India?

Do you donate time or money to charities in your own home town -- where there are surely some suffering poor people who need help? Go work for the local food bank for an afternoon and get to know some of those people -- you have time for that, don't you?

Prashant.M · Oct 29th, 2009, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy_A

Hi Nick,
When I said I was becoming increasingly aware of poverty and suffering I did not mean India in particular. But I guess what I should have said is "I have been feeling increasingly sad and upset" not increasingly aware.

Are you sure that you are feeling increasingly sad and upset about poverty and suffering in the world? Maybe it's something else.

You don't have to donate your entire savings and deny yourself pleasure. You worked for it, go ahead and enjoy it. Maybe you can donate part of the savings or as others have mentioned, donate part of your time.

Nick-H · Oct 29th, 2009, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_mahajan

Nick, I will disagree with you on 'never have seen a starving child' in another thread. You just didn't know it when you saw it

Capt... I won't even begin to argue with you on such things --- though from conversation I can learn.

I am sure that I have seen many, many cases of malnutrition. Even the dainty, tiny ladies of this part of India, who I find so attractive, my wife tells me are the result of... malnutrition, either in their childhood, or family history

.

There is a particular image of a starving child, bone rather than flesh under the skin, which the world's media has given us. Whilst it represents a certain truth, it probably eclipses a far wider truth.

I don't aim to deny, dismiss, or make little of India's social and human ills. I do think, though, that a lot of them are not as perceived or expected by those who do not know the country.

Some of them are even misrepresented to the visitor (as a wild example, the "poverty-stricken" drivers who thus get tips in thousands from their foreign clients) and some of them are, perhaps, not seen clearly (a I suspect the Capt is trying to tell me) even after some years of living here.

capt_mahajan · Oct 29th, 2009, 13:43

Ok Nick. In this thread then

Briefly as I can, because I don't want to sidetrack the thread, pretty severely hungry and malnourished children are everywhere in cities too. Many will get just one sparse meal a day (if you can call it that) throughout their childhood and beyond, and will grow up perpetually hungry, malnouorished, listless and underperforming in every way.

The image of bloated stomachs and sunken eyes we equate with child starvation is strong, and those kids will die soon. Lifelong nagging hunger is as much a reality as that, though it is hidden. You (and I) can't see it.

I remember it was around noon somewhere. I will never forget the despair on both faces, the mother's and her child's, when she responded to his 'I am hungry', with "You have eaten for today"

Nick-H · Oct 29th, 2009, 15:35

Thank you Captain: I won't say that again.

capt_mahajan · Oct 29th, 2009, 15:53

Hey, just a mild disagreement; did it sound more than that?

Can't be. I wouldn't have the gaul

gypsie,lotus · Oct 29th, 2009, 16:10

Poverty and hunger, belongs to no country. All have their dark sides.
Sincerely, Gypsie

Nick-H · Oct 29th, 2009, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt_mahajan

Hey, just a mild disagreement; did it sound more than that?

Can't be. I wouldn't have the gaul

It didn't sound like a disagreement at all, Capt. Hence the thanks! Lesson learned.

I think that some (don't know, of course, about Darcy) expect to see scenes like famine pictures, but I realise that I have to find a different way of correcting them, if need be.

paratmoshe · Nov 4th, 2009, 16:28

Dear Darcy,
If you feel guilty about spending so much money on a trip to India, your trip can lead to something great.
While you are in India you can visit a social centre, learn about it, take pictures and try to help funding this project when you are back home.
You won't be saving the world, but with small means you can make a big difference in the life of a few people.
When you go back home and show pictures and tell people firsthand about this project, you will find many generous people who are willing to donate. It could be the start of something wonderful!
Have a great trip to India!

Oct 29th, 2009, 00:52	#1
Darcy_A Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 18	Feel So Guilty! Hi, I am going to India in January, and I feel so guilty about it! I am becoming increasingly aware of and sensitive to the poverty and suffering in the world, and instead of dedicating myself to doing something about it I am planning a trip which could feed who knows how many starving children. I can rationalize it to myself as much as I want but it is ridiculously selfish. I want to go to India so badly and I already have my plane ticket and don't think I will back out, but I feel like a bad person. I feel like I am putting my principles on hold till I get back, and I don't know how to reconcile it. Does anyone else ever feel like this?

Oct 29th, 2009, 08:48	#6
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,601	Darcy, can't explain why, but India needs tourists like you, and not for the money. Though it might upset you to see some of the stuff face to face. Nick, I will disagree with you on 'never have seen a starving child' in another thread. You just didn't know it when you saw it __________________ . Outside the machine

Oct 29th, 2009, 09:57	#7
wonderwomanusa Maha Guru Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 4,261	So, if you're aware of poverty and suffering, what do you do about it, while you're getting ready to go to India? Do you donate time or money to charities in your own home town -- where there are surely some suffering poor people who need help? Go work for the local food bank for an afternoon and get to know some of those people -- you have time for that, don't you? __________________ The map is not the territory. --Alfred Korzybski

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Oct 29th, 2009, 01:08	#2
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,187	This may not be the kind of answer you expect, but... I think you are not becoming increasingly aware of poverty and suffering in India --- because you have not been here yet. You have not seen how people live in India. The rest of what you say also makes little sense: you say you feel guilty about your trip --- but do you feel guilty about every luxury, or even non-essential, you consume at home? It makes no sense to feel guilty about your trip. You say you could be doing something --- do you not think that your trip will be doing something? Unless you are spending the entire in time in luxury hotels owned, not by Indian capital, but by multi-national companies, everything that you do here will contribute something. So just forget all that --- enjoy your trip and learn from it. (Hey... I am trying to make you feel better --- even if it doesn't seem like it ) Oh, and I have seen some poverty in my years here, although not the worst of it, but I have Never seen a starving child. I'm almost tempted to say, Wrong Continent --- except I am aware, third-hand, that there is grinding and abject poverty in some of the less fertile farming areas of India.

Oct 29th, 2009, 01:53	#3
Darcy_A Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 18	Hi Nick, I was not sure what kind of answer to expect, but I know I did not expect anyone would be able to help me feel better. Yet you helped a lot, thank you! When I said I was becoming increasingly aware of poverty and suffering I did not mean India in particular. But I guess what I should have said is "I have been feeling increasingly sad and upset" not increasingly aware. No in that perspective it doesn't make as much sense to feel guilty about my trip. But I do feel guilty in general about the relative luxury I have as a lower middle class American. I feel particularly guilty about this trip because it's something I've worked and saved for for over a year and a half, and I feel selfish for putting all my energy and money into something that for the most part benefits only me. Especially because in the last couple years I have felt an increasing urge to step out of my bubble of perceived entitlement and contribute to the betterment of our world. But yeah, I guess going to India is a good way to step outside of one's bubble, and you're right that I will be contributing to the local economy in a small way. But the thing that's plaguing my conscience is that right now I have more money saved than I've ever had, and I have the power to give it all to someone (or many someones) who desperately need it but I won't. But anyway, your response did help me feel a bit better.

Oct 29th, 2009, 02:11	#4
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,187	good! First time I ever made someone feel better with a rant Hey, just think of the scope for guilt that there is in being middle-class and comfortable in India! And I do not live in some isolated and protected wealthy area. Looks like you could use your trip, perhaps, as a fact finding tour to check out things that you could be doing, or could be contributing to. Not much I can offer constructively on this one --- you could check out NGOs that do stuff like fund education, With just a few hundred rupees you can send a child to school. It costs substantially more to, for instance, pay the fees for a teenager to qualify as a nurse, but... you say you're feeling rich . I hasten to add that I don;t know these things because I am in the business --- but my wife is. Informally, no organisation, no expenses, and certainly no profit, she passes on money from people who have it, to pay for school fees. Oh... this is not touting! She has a group of people that she works with and on behalf of. She administrates; I do the photocopying!

Oct 29th, 2009, 13:43	#10
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,601	Ok Nick. In this thread then Briefly as I can, because I don't want to sidetrack the thread, pretty severely hungry and malnourished children are everywhere in cities too. Many will get just one sparse meal a day (if you can call it that) throughout their childhood and beyond, and will grow up perpetually hungry, malnouorished, listless and underperforming in every way. The image of bloated stomachs and sunken eyes we equate with child starvation is strong, and those kids will die soon. Lifelong nagging hunger is as much a reality as that, though it is hidden. You (and I) can't see it. I remember it was around noon somewhere. I will never forget the despair on both faces, the mother's and her child's, when she responded to his 'I am hungry', with "You have eaten for today"

Oct 29th, 2009, 15:35	#11
Nick-H This is just a cameo appearance Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 36,187	Thank you Captain: I won't say that again.

Oct 29th, 2009, 15:53	#12
capt_mahajan Infidel Sufi Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: styx Posts: 13,601	Hey, just a mild disagreement; did it sound more than that? Can't be. I wouldn't have the gaul

Oct 29th, 2009, 16:10	#13
gypsie,lotus "LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL" Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NEW ORLEANS, USA Posts: 155	Poverty and hunger, belongs to no country. All have their dark sides. Sincerely, Gypsie

Nov 4th, 2009, 16:28	#15
paratmoshe Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 91	Dear Darcy, If you feel guilty about spending so much money on a trip to India, your trip can lead to something great. While you are in India you can visit a social centre, learn about it, take pictures and try to help funding this project when you are back home. You won't be saving the world, but with small means you can make a big difference in the life of a few people. When you go back home and show pictures and tell people firsthand about this project, you will find many generous people who are willing to donate. It could be the start of something wonderful! Have a great trip to India!