cross cultural relationships

agni5454 · Oct 15th, 2005, 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollow

Even if a spouse ages faster, if the person is a human being, and not some calculating sociopath, they would most likely stick with their spouse. I mean I wouldn't leave a girl just because she got older quicker. That's ridiculous.

Hollow,

that is exactly why i was unhappy with the thread. if the indian guys are like that then screw them. they do not deserve european women.

simple as that.

I am not sure what the situation with PIOs though. i do know a lot of PIOs who married, white, black, asian, etc and are totally happy with it. I guess the mentality in India is different. i dont know.

Keep in mind, this doesn't apply for Indians born in foreign lands.

Paagla Dashu · Oct 15th, 2005, 04:42

Interesting statistics to look up will be:

1. Divorce rates in the world and divorce rates amongst Indians

2. Divorce rates amongst cross-cultural couples

3. Perecentage of men who divorce their wives to marry a younger girl - and percentage of Indian men amongst them

This thread needs a reality check before we conclude that the concepts of multiple divorces, multiple marriages or best of all the concept of getting a trophy wife (in early twenties) at the age of fifty (plus) was invented by Indians.

kohinoor · Oct 15th, 2005, 04:43

I checked the google with indian men love, but the results were so depressing that I'm going to add here only two links, in case you're interested
http://www.fallsapart.com/why.html
http://indianfriendfinder.com/blog/201/post_2378.html

Shaktipalooza · Oct 15th, 2005, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kohinoor

I checked the google with indian men love, but the results were so depressing that I'm going to add here only two links, in case you're interested
http://www.fallsapart.com/why.html
http://indianfriendfinder.com/blog/201/post_2378.html

indianfriendfinder? Darling i'm afraid that's a swingers site (not that i'd know about such things). Not really representational of conventional relationships.

Don't know about the other.

Paagla Dashu · Oct 15th, 2005, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by genevieve_lalune

If your man says "thank you" you've won half the battle ! It is seemingly ingrained in the Indian mentality that 'please' and 'thank you' create distance in the relationship. The reason is something to do with patronizing. You would be more apt to patronize a stranger than you would a family member in the typical Indian context. Therefore, if an Indian does not say please or thank you, consider it warm and not abrasive. I learned this as my boyfriend tries to stop me from saying please and thank you. And when you have a British parent, this is impossible! So, the tables are turned...

The reason for it also lies in the language and how ir is spoken in every day life.

In many Indian languages, to specifically use the words (that mean "please" or "thank you") in every day conversations will create distance. Use of the words in many Indian languages makes the conversation too formal and is superfluous. Superfluous - because in many of these languages - "please" and "thank you" are conveyed through the tone of speaking (also with addition of words like "na" or "arre") - the same sentence can be spoken in different tones with completely different meanings.

Its the same old story - when the message is sincere - it gets across to people whose hearts are linked - without the need for words. When formality is more important than sincerity, words become more important than true feelings. That's how an Indian thinks, IMO.

robotvoice · Oct 15th, 2005, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachchik4ever

I think intercultural relationships are not even unique anymore and it's a good thing !! white, brown, green or yellow, who cares????

well put, and great original post alltogether!

robotvoice · Oct 15th, 2005, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by agni5454

CORRECTION

Ravi Shankar and Sue Jones did HAVE a 9 year relationship. But i can swear that i read somewhere that it was a one night stand as well. i dont know.

http://www.spring.net/music/
http://www.anoushkashankar.com/
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magaz...800935,00.html

i cant wait till i make it big in the music world so people can discuss my sex life on india mike

ddevadatta · Oct 15th, 2005, 09:29

Somehow I find it hard just to have an intellectual debate on intercultural relationships because of my own experience (17 years of an intercultural marriage and family) I suppose. On the one hand I have discovered that some folks romantasize (pardon the pun) such marriages. Comments that can be summarized by the Beatles song, "All you need is love." Such do not take seriously that intercultural marriages are extremely diificult to navigate.

On the other hand there are some who have concluded such relationships will NEVER work because of the immense difficulties that are real.

My own perspective is that either position is extreme and take two ends of the spectrum and make it seem like an absolute truth in all cases. I really think that we are learning a lot more of such relationships, we have a more realistic approach to such relationships and what I find hopeful is that there are certainly more such relationships emerging all over.

Statistics are fine but the bootom line is that those of us who have made such a choice do not take statistics all that seriously. At least I don't. I live with the notion of commitment and the hard work of navigating through the differences that are deeply held and felt.

Moreover this is layered and issues can have a theme over many years or issues can emerge at different phases in the relationship. The key always is coming to some level of compromise that addresses both cultural frameworks. I can give you many examples from my own life. The key is managing the differences.

Here is a quick sample of general issues I have found: Food, sex, roles between males/females, issue of time, place of residence, issue of friends and family, finances, goals with finances, in-laws, class, religion, child rearing, dealing with stress, dealing with illness, dealing with future, just to name a few. While one can ceratinly say these are the same issues faced by any couple these do get complicated because the two come with differing set of rules, assumptions, values, habits, and viewpoints shaped by their own individual cultures.

Anyways this has become a long posting and I will sign off and let's other into the ring...

dzibead · Oct 15th, 2005, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kohinoor

I checked the google with indian men love, but the results were so depressing that I'm going to add here only two links, in case you're interested
http://www.fallsapart.com/why.html
http://indianfriendfinder.com/blog/201/post_2378.html

Well, the article on the "fallsapart" website you pointed out to us is by Sherman Alexie, so the "Indians" he's referring to are of the "Native American" variety, not the kind from India! Sherman Alexie is an "Indian" of the former variety, not the latter.

dzibead · Oct 15th, 2005, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paagla Dashu

The reason for it also lies in the language and how ir is spoken in every day life.

In many Indian languages, to specifically use the words (that mean "please" or "thank you") in every day conversations will create distance. Use of the words in many Indian languages makes the conversation too formal and is superfluous. Superfluous - because in many of these languages - "please" and "thank you" are conveyed through the tone of speaking (also with addition of words like "na" or "arre") - the same sentence can be spoken in different tones with completely different meanings.

Its the same old story - when the message is sincere - it gets across to people whose hearts are linked - without the need for words. When formality is more important than sincerity, words become more important than true feelings. That's how an Indian thinks, IMO.

Tibetans also typically don't use the terms "please" and "thank you" ver often -- at least not until they start living in the West or in a Westernized culture and people start pounding on them about being rude!

lotus blossom · Oct 15th, 2005, 11:20

it's conditioning that makes us want people to say please and thank-you, which generally starts at an early age with adults telling children to say these words. this has never sat very well with me. in fact, i once read that one should not try and make a child say please, thank you, etc.; it is far better to have them learn manners by the examples that we set. i do not need to hear the "magic word" in order to feel someone's sincerity; it is more in their manner than in the words, which again, may be a conditioned response.

Nick-H · Oct 15th, 2005, 15:27

Oh yes, when I stayed in my music teacher's house in Chennai in 1999 the house was crammed with relatives and friends (staying for a function). Even getting up and down the stairs meant puching and shoving those sitting there. In response to my 'Please... Excuse Me... Thankyou', they all used to chorus, 'Please, Excuse Me, Thankyou!' ---it just isn't Indian!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agni5455

that is exactly why i was unhappy with the thread. if the indian guys are like that then screw them. they do not deserve european women.

Guys like that donlt deserve any woman. If that is their attitude they should stick to one-night stands ---or prostitutes, as at least then the women would be getting something worthwhile out the relationship

Nick-H · Oct 15th, 2005, 15:31

My cross-cultural relationship is with a very cosmopolitan (in attitude and thought; she has only left India once, and that was with me) woman, close to my own age, who speaks my language perfectly.

I had the opportunity to persue an arranged marriage with a woman twenty years younger, not an English speaker. Now that would have been a really cross-cultural relationship, and I shall wonder for the rest of my life what might have happened... I never met her (I accepted that she would learn English fast, but I felt that without lots of communication before the event it was not really on, so I said no) but, as she is a relative of close friends I probably will one day...

dzibead · Oct 15th, 2005, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

My cross-cultural relationship is with a very cosmopolitan (in attitude and thought; she has only left India once, and that was with me) woman, close to my own age, who speaks my language perfectly.

Hm-m-m. I suspect your relationship may be less "cross-cultural" than the marriage between Prince Charles and Princess Diana was!

kohinoor · Oct 15th, 2005, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaktipalooza

indianfriendfinder? Darling i'm afraid that's a swingers site (not that i'd know about such things). Not really representational of conventional relationships.

Don't know about the other.

It was just that woman's opinion on most indian men, why I put the link.
There was at least one indian man here in IM saying about the same.
But what I wonder is, would those opinions really apply only on Indians.
And I hope there are many expections making the rule.

Oct 15th, 2005, 04:43	#123
kohinoor Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: east & west Posts: 182	I checked the google with indian men love, but the results were so depressing that I'm going to add here only two links, in case you're interested http://www.fallsapart.com/why.html http://indianfriendfinder.com/blog/201/post_2378.html __________________ - Om is where the Art is -

Oct 15th, 2005, 09:29	#128
ddevadatta Finger Licking Good Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 907	Intellectual Debate Somehow I find it hard just to have an intellectual debate on intercultural relationships because of my own experience (17 years of an intercultural marriage and family) I suppose. On the one hand I have discovered that some folks romantasize (pardon the pun) such marriages. Comments that can be summarized by the Beatles song, "All you need is love." Such do not take seriously that intercultural marriages are extremely diificult to navigate. On the other hand there are some who have concluded such relationships will NEVER work because of the immense difficulties that are real. My own perspective is that either position is extreme and take two ends of the spectrum and make it seem like an absolute truth in all cases. I really think that we are learning a lot more of such relationships, we have a more realistic approach to such relationships and what I find hopeful is that there are certainly more such relationships emerging all over. Statistics are fine but the bootom line is that those of us who have made such a choice do not take statistics all that seriously. At least I don't. I live with the notion of commitment and the hard work of navigating through the differences that are deeply held and felt. Moreover this is layered and issues can have a theme over many years or issues can emerge at different phases in the relationship. The key always is coming to some level of compromise that addresses both cultural frameworks. I can give you many examples from my own life. The key is managing the differences. Here is a quick sample of general issues I have found: Food, sex, roles between males/females, issue of time, place of residence, issue of friends and family, finances, goals with finances, in-laws, class, religion, child rearing, dealing with stress, dealing with illness, dealing with future, just to name a few. While one can ceratinly say these are the same issues faced by any couple these do get complicated because the two come with differing set of rules, assumptions, values, habits, and viewpoints shaped by their own individual cultures. Anyways this has become a long posting and I will sign off and let's other into the ring... __________________ Ayurvedic cure for an Indian headache

Oct 15th, 2005, 11:20	#131
lotus blossom re-member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: revolving around the sun standing still Posts: 1,890	it's conditioning that makes us want people to say please and thank-you, which generally starts at an early age with adults telling children to say these words. this has never sat very well with me. in fact, i once read that one should not try and make a child say please, thank you, etc.; it is far better to have them learn manners by the examples that we set. i do not need to hear the "magic word" in order to feel someone's sincerity; it is more in their manner than in the words, which again, may be a conditioned response. __________________ Not all who wander are lost

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Oct 15th, 2005, 04:42	#122
Paagla Dashu Unreasonably Unreasonable Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Where They Wear Clogs Posts: 1,223	Interesting statistics to look up will be: 1. Divorce rates in the world and divorce rates amongst Indians 2. Divorce rates amongst cross-cultural couples 3. Perecentage of men who divorce their wives to marry a younger girl - and percentage of Indian men amongst them This thread needs a reality check before we conclude that the concepts of multiple divorces, multiple marriages or best of all the concept of getting a trophy wife (in early twenties) at the age of fifty (plus) was invented by Indians.

Oct 15th, 2005, 15:31	#133
Nick-H Loud-mouthed, Noisy Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 26,862	My cross-cultural relationship is with a very cosmopolitan (in attitude and thought; she has only left India once, and that was with me) woman, close to my own age, who speaks my language perfectly. I had the opportunity to persue an arranged marriage with a woman twenty years younger, not an English speaker. Now that would have been a really cross-cultural relationship, and I shall wonder for the rest of my life what might have happened... I never met her (I accepted that she would learn English fast, but I felt that without lots of communication before the event it was not really on, so I said no) but, as she is a relative of close friends I probably will one day...

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