cross cultural relationships

Merchant · Oct 14th, 2005, 01:48

The danger in discussing "cross cultural relationships" is assuming that an individual's biases, neuroses, quirks, charms, strengths, even personality are the product of the culture--this is just armchair anthropology. People are people, and they are who they are for myriad complex reasons, which can't be reduced to flipping through "The Wonder That Was India" or reading Rohin Mistry.

All relationships are cross cultural. Are Indian women passive? Are American women aggressive? These stereotypes hold no water. For every retiring village girl in India there is Arundhati Roy. For every Angelina Jolie in the US, there is Laura Bush . . .

beachchik4ever · Oct 14th, 2005, 02:28

Hi hey_namaste, my man is Indian too, some of these comments are interesting, I have never thought of him as brown skinned or any different than me, he is just a man, never looked for a foreign man either, it just happened, we had to decide to live in India or the US, hard choice because he had a great life in India, life as a king kinda thing, so he walked away from ALOT to come here with me, I could have had a pampered life there for sure but the climate extremes etc., worried me, so here we are, we will travel back to India each year for my sightseeing and visiting his family. I consider India my second home and have tons to learn yet. There is something about the place that I'm willing to spend a lifetime finding out.

Doing everything yourself was tough on him at first and I don't spare him, I'm not his maid so he helps ! (cursing at times

) Indian men can be a little macho and bossy I think, not that they are bad, it's just been the culture but we've adapted, I am never submissive but it's give and take and when I have to I stand my ground, shocks him a bit, he'll say YOU ARE A TIGER, no one's ever talked to me like that !! I tell him well they should have--u need it, besides if I don't defend myself who will?

There are oddities at times some comical, I can remember finding out before meeting his parents the first time that I should touch their feet. I had never heard of such a thing in my life and I was going to kill him for letting me know soooo late, I would have been practicing a month on any foot I saw!! u know how it is meeting parents, u can be nervous and what if I didn't do it right, knocked them down on something?? it all worked out, I did it really fast*** sprang up and hugged them hard, I think they had shocked faces but they love me now.

things about him: where's my choppers... (what the hell are choppers?? flipflops we call them)... numkee....so much tea drinking, saying yes to anything and meaning no....shocked at girl's freedom here, (which causes my dirtiest look ever)...realizing he's saying it to torment me, dinner sooooooooooooo late !! cuss words with an accent, the sound of him saying that SOB cracks me up, the list could go on and on and he could have one on me too !

as i remember i'll post it, My best kept secret, this site, Thank u IndiaMike,

my man gets amazed how much I know of India or when I tell him places I want to go (that I saw here)

I think intercultural relationships are not even unique anymore and it's a good thing !! white, brown, green or yellow, who cares????

agni5454 · Oct 14th, 2005, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duryodhan

they don't feel secure with females from their own country/culture and deep down inside think of Asian or Indian girls as coming from a lower culture and therefore as being easier to bag.

do you really think indians are from a lower culture?

I am not attracted to Asians in general but i really do not think they are inferior in cultural status.

Paagla Dashu · Oct 14th, 2005, 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merchant

Yeah, every Indian woman I've ever met is the very definition of submissive. LOL!

I was talking about SE Asia - which as far as my knowledge of Geography goes does not include India.

Oct 14th, 2005, 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by agni5454

do you really think indians are from a lower culture?

I am not attracted to Asians in general but i really do not think they are inferior in cultural status.

I didn't say that! I said many white males I know who are attracted to Asian or Indian females have this attitude (of course they don't admit it).

I myself am of Indian origin by the way.

Oct 14th, 2005, 04:06

Guys, this is an excellent discussion. By the way, I think some of you think I am white but I'm not. I'm of Indian origin but I grew up and live in the Netherlands.

Maybe I was hasty in some of my remarks e.g. regarding multicultural societies. All I can say is that here in the Netherlands they claim to be a "multicultural society" but it is a farce, and it becomes painfully obvious during election time when suddenly "the foreigners" are blamed for everything that is wrong in the country. Maybe the San Francisco Bay Area is genuinely different, I haven't been there for a long, long time so I can't comment on it and so I take back what I said.

But the fact seriously remains that at the lowest level, we all go back to our ethnic attachments. There might be exceptions, but in the end that's exactly what they are. I think it is absolutely fair to distinguish white, non-white or whatever. It's because we ARE all different. Ignoring that doesn't make it go away.

I think a lot of the people on this board are exceptions and I think that's what makes this board awesome. A few of you ladies replied to my last message and I agree with all your points. The thing is, you are exceptions. You're way better than the common person. Either that, or I'm just somehow surrounded by idiots. You would not believe how narrow-minded and ignorant...or just plain stupid...the common person is. The fact that we are even on this board puts us in another tier...how many people want to spend their time travelling and learning about other cultures? They are more interested in just going along with the rat race and sitting in front of the TV.

Another thing: a topic like this one would have degenerated into a mass flame war on any other board. But it hasn't happened here. I think that says a lot too.

ruins_explorer · Oct 14th, 2005, 04:17

D.,
your most recent post just gave me the warm fuzzies.
This is a great place to discuss things.

Anyway, I don't like to think about the kind of person you talk about. I'd like to think they don't exist. I guess that's my way of dealing with the fact that I can't save the world. As a mostly white person, I guess I am priviledged that I can pretend they don't exist, because they aren't being racist to me.

I wish everyone could just be as awesome as the people on Indiamike. It makes me sad that the human race hasn't moved past judging people on skin color.

genevieve_lalune · Oct 14th, 2005, 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by beachchik4ever

Hi hey_namaste, my man is Indian too...
There are oddities at times some comical, I can remember finding out before meeting his parents the first time that I should touch their feet. I had never heard of such a thing in my life and I was going to kill him for letting me know soooo late, I would have been practicing a month on any foot I saw!! u know how it is meeting parents, u can be nervous and what if I didn't do it right, knocked them down on something?? it all worked out, I did it really fast*** sprang up and hugged them hard, I think they had shocked faces but they love me now.

You go, girl !

Your post made me laugh away all my worries. I've been asked to touch my boyfriend's parents' feet next year and I'm so worried about falling over, but at least I have warning!

ruins_explorer · Oct 14th, 2005, 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duryodhan

But the fact seriously remains that at the lowest level, we all go back to our ethnic attachments. There might be exceptions, but in the end that's exactly what they are. I think it is absolutely fair to distinguish white, non-white or whatever. It's because we ARE all different. Ignoring that doesn't make it go away.

I actually did a lot of deep thinking about your comments today, and here's my thought - all the people I hang out with from different ethnicities and whatnot have all been acculturated as Americans. Furthermore, they are all within my same social class, having at least a college education if not more, and we also could all be considered members (or past members) of a particular subculture. So even when you put race aside, people still are attracted to and want to spend time with people who are similar to them. My mom commented at our wedding on how diverse the crowd was, but that's externally. We're friends because we listen to the same music, like the same movies, enjoy doing the same things, etc.

I don't think race is necessarily always the distinguishing factor, but you're still right - we're all different and our differences should not be ignored as a factor.

Nick-H · Oct 14th, 2005, 04:49

Quote:

a topic like this one would have degenerated into a mass flame war on any other board. But it hasn't happened here. I think that says a lot too

It may yet! I bet the mods are watching it closely

. But, Indeed, IndiaMike.com is justly famous for conversation rather than mudslinging.

ShaktiPalooza: (a personal question) You talk about marrying into Indian culture; I thought you were Indian, or of Indian origin?

Yogagal: If you were a man who (for the sake of argument) wanted a submissive wife, every need instantly cared for, every word agreed with (and thirty years younger

) where, based on stereotypes (and the PR of certain agencies) would you go? This is what Pagla Dashu is getting at; I don't think he is setting up one culture against another.

Maybe Duryodahn's insecures are there, although, as far as India is concerned, I think they will be dreaming rather than doing. I think they are more likely to be looking in the countries that PD alludes to, if this is their motivation (and no, of course I'm not saying that everybody who chooses to marry a Philipino girl is insecure

) .

Otherwise, there seems a broad division among us mixers:

those who meet someone, get to know them and find themselves in love. The cross-cultural aspect is not primary
those who, because of attraction to Indian culture, or Indian physical attributes, make their search for a partner in the Indian pool.

...or some combination thereof!

It goes without saying that I am attracted to Indian culture and India. I have a personal preference (we all have those!) for dark skin.

There is a story of a woman who decided that she would marry a millionaire. When asked how she would achieve this, she said, 'simple: I'll make sure I get to mix with millionaires.'

That is, in a sense, what I did, putting myself in the second category. On the other hand, I am going to marry my lady not because of the colour of her skin, which is fair, but because of who she is. But, like the millionaire lady, I mixed with Indians in India to meet her, she is Indian and does not want to live outside of India.

Paagla Dashu · Oct 14th, 2005, 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

Yogagal: If you were a man who (for the sake of argument) wanted a submissive wife, every need instantly cared for, every word agreed with (and thirty years younger

) where, based on stereotypes (and the PR of certain agencies) would you go? This is what Pagla Dashu is getting at; I don't think he is setting up one culture against another.

Thanks Nick-H.

Indian Women? Submissive?

My name might have the word "paagla" (crazy) but I have the basic common sense needed for survival.

agni5454 · Oct 14th, 2005, 05:36

Indian women take care of their husbands very well but that doesn't mean they are, indeed, submissive. Caring comes from love and not fear/submission. Submission comes from fear.

genevieve_lalune · Oct 14th, 2005, 05:38

While I agree with some of what Duryodhan says, let us all not forget where he comes from -- a country we think is more liberal than it is:

Quote:

How the Netherlands has become less liberal:

Immigrants must pass an exam on Dutch language and culture before being allowed to move to the Netherlands. That does not apply to immigrants from US, Canada, Australia, Japan and other EU states.

Legal immigrants already there must take a Dutch language course at their own expense.

Immigrants guilty of any minor crime, such as shoplifting, during their first three years in the country can be deported.

People can bring in a husband or wife only once they are 24 years old, and do not depend on welfare benefits. The measures are aimed at curbing international arranged marriages.

26,000 illegal immigrants are being deported, some of whom have been in the country for ten years and have established families.

Clampdown on foreign imams working in mosques. They must show their appreciation of Dutch values.

Increase in sentences for a range of crimes, and introduction of “zero tolerance” policing to cities such as Rotterdam.

Tightening of rules on cannabis-selling coffee-shops and zero-tolerance approach to infringements. About half the coffee shops in Amsterdam have closed.

The Netherlands is still liberal in some ways, however. In 2001, the country became the first in the world to legalise gay marriages. The Netherlands still has liberal rules on euthanasia, recently extending it to severely handicapped babies and children.

From the article: Dutch unveil the toughest face in Europe with a ban on the burka From Anthony Browne in Brussels. (Google it for more info.)

crvlvr · Oct 14th, 2005, 06:08

Quote:

My best kept secret, this site, Thank u IndiaMike, my man gets amazed how much I know of India or when I tell him places I want to go (that I saw here)

never ceases to amaze me how many differnt ways IM can be used. Beachchi, thanks for the amusing post

..

Shaktipalooza · Oct 14th, 2005, 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-H

ShaktiPalooza: (a personal question) You talk about marrying into Indian culture; I thought you were Indian, or of Indian origin?

It goes without saying that I am attracted to Indian culture and India. I have a personal preference (we all have those!) for dark skin.

There is a story of a woman who decided that she would marry a millionaire. When asked how she would achieve this, she said, 'simple: I'll make sure I get to mix with millionaires.'

That is, in a sense, what I did, putting myself in the second category. On the other hand, I am going to marry my lady not because of the colour of her skin, which is fair, but because of who she is. But, like the millionaire lady, I mixed with Indians in India to meet her, she is Indian and does not want to live outside of India.

I'm a mutt. Half Swede and half Hispanic. Dark with aryan features, works well for us. When bartering in the market Mrs Shaktipalooza tells me to shut up (and look Indian) while she haggles.

I think it's human nature to seek out the exotic, those who are different than us. It's a disposition that drives us to spread our seed far and wide. Mrs Shaktipalooza likes to tease me about my having jungle fever, something I can't deny.

Are you in Chennai? We'll be passing through this February.

Oct 14th, 2005, 01:48	#31
Merchant Maha Guru Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York Posts: 2,072	The danger in discussing "cross cultural relationships" is assuming that an individual's biases, neuroses, quirks, charms, strengths, even personality are the product of the culture--this is just armchair anthropology. People are people, and they are who they are for myriad complex reasons, which can't be reduced to flipping through "The Wonder That Was India" or reading Rohin Mistry. All relationships are cross cultural. Are Indian women passive? Are American women aggressive? These stereotypes hold no water. For every retiring village girl in India there is Arundhati Roy. For every Angelina Jolie in the US, there is Laura Bush . . . Last edited by Merchant : Oct 14th, 2005 at 08:25.

Oct 14th, 2005, 02:28	#32
beachchik4ever Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: east coast Posts: 93	Hi hey_namaste, my man is Indian too, some of these comments are interesting, I have never thought of him as brown skinned or any different than me, he is just a man, never looked for a foreign man either, it just happened, we had to decide to live in India or the US, hard choice because he had a great life in India, life as a king kinda thing, so he walked away from ALOT to come here with me, I could have had a pampered life there for sure but the climate extremes etc., worried me, so here we are, we will travel back to India each year for my sightseeing and visiting his family. I consider India my second home and have tons to learn yet. There is something about the place that I'm willing to spend a lifetime finding out. Doing everything yourself was tough on him at first and I don't spare him, I'm not his maid so he helps ! (cursing at times) Indian men can be a little macho and bossy I think, not that they are bad, it's just been the culture but we've adapted, I am never submissive but it's give and take and when I have to I stand my ground, shocks him a bit, he'll say YOU ARE A TIGER, no one's ever talked to me like that !! I tell him well they should have--u need it, besides if I don't defend myself who will? There are oddities at times some comical, I can remember finding out before meeting his parents the first time that I should touch their feet. I had never heard of such a thing in my life and I was going to kill him for letting me know soooo late, I would have been practicing a month on any foot I saw!! u know how it is meeting parents, u can be nervous and what if I didn't do it right, knocked them down on something?? it all worked out, I did it really fast*** sprang up and hugged them hard, I think they had shocked faces but they love me now. things about him: where's my choppers... (what the hell are choppers?? flipflops we call them)... numkee....so much tea drinking, saying yes to anything and meaning no....shocked at girl's freedom here, (which causes my dirtiest look ever)...realizing he's saying it to torment me, dinner sooooooooooooo late !! cuss words with an accent, the sound of him saying that SOB cracks me up, the list could go on and on and he could have one on me too ! as i remember i'll post it, My best kept secret, this site, Thank u IndiaMike, my man gets amazed how much I know of India or when I tell him places I want to go (that I saw here) I think intercultural relationships are not even unique anymore and it's a good thing !! white, brown, green or yellow, who cares????

Oct 14th, 2005, 04:06	#36
Duryodhan Posts: n/a	Good discussion! Guys, this is an excellent discussion. By the way, I think some of you think I am white but I'm not. I'm of Indian origin but I grew up and live in the Netherlands. Maybe I was hasty in some of my remarks e.g. regarding multicultural societies. All I can say is that here in the Netherlands they claim to be a "multicultural society" but it is a farce, and it becomes painfully obvious during election time when suddenly "the foreigners" are blamed for everything that is wrong in the country. Maybe the San Francisco Bay Area is genuinely different, I haven't been there for a long, long time so I can't comment on it and so I take back what I said. But the fact seriously remains that at the lowest level, we all go back to our ethnic attachments. There might be exceptions, but in the end that's exactly what they are. I think it is absolutely fair to distinguish white, non-white or whatever. It's because we ARE all different. Ignoring that doesn't make it go away. I think a lot of the people on this board are exceptions and I think that's what makes this board awesome. A few of you ladies replied to my last message and I agree with all your points. The thing is, you are exceptions. You're way better than the common person. Either that, or I'm just somehow surrounded by idiots. You would not believe how narrow-minded and ignorant...or just plain stupid...the common person is. The fact that we are even on this board puts us in another tier...how many people want to spend their time travelling and learning about other cultures? They are more interested in just going along with the rat race and sitting in front of the TV. Another thing: a topic like this one would have degenerated into a mass flame war on any other board. But it hasn't happened here. I think that says a lot too.

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Oct 14th, 2005, 04:17	#37
ruins_explorer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 206	D., your most recent post just gave me the warm fuzzies. This is a great place to discuss things. Anyway, I don't like to think about the kind of person you talk about. I'd like to think they don't exist. I guess that's my way of dealing with the fact that I can't save the world. As a mostly white person, I guess I am priviledged that I can pretend they don't exist, because they aren't being racist to me. I wish everyone could just be as awesome as the people on Indiamike. It makes me sad that the human race hasn't moved past judging people on skin color.

Oct 14th, 2005, 05:36	#42
agni5454 Mr. 200 ...and counting. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PA, US Posts: 538	Indian women take care of their husbands very well but that doesn't mean they are, indeed, submissive. Caring comes from love and not fear/submission. Submission comes from fear.

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